Make Packs Worth Buying, Also

    • schild wrote:

      Sleeves in packs would probably make them happier than dicking around for gold for sleeves in Chests.
      You need to tie sleeve acquision to gold spending to incentivize gold-platinum trading between the PvP crowd (allegedly "spenders") and the PvE crowd (allegedly "F2P"). If you remove chests from the equation and put everything chest related to packs (e.g. we now roll sleeves in WoF) you reach another problem where PvE equipment will be forced upon PvP players who, up to now, shipped their chests to the AH immediately upon opening a pack. Listing 4 items (chests of different rarities) in mass is infinitely easier and faster than listing a hundred different equipment pieces, after doing research for how much it costs.
    • I don't mind getting PvE crap - if there was a format for me to play other humans with said PvE crap (EDH).

      Seriously, it's like, all the moving parts are there already.

      Anyway, seriously, when I pay money for things, I want everything I get to be usable in the format that requires money. This seems to be a complex notion in this thread though ಠ_ಠ
    • The first post in this thread's third sentence, before about packs being boring, is about dropping $900+ a set in magic just for misprints/other goodies and, when I had last read this thread, on page three, there was an active discussion, started by metronomy, about whales. I read every post of the thread within 24 hours of having the conversation and that framing both at the beginning and the end (where I last read it) contextualized my memory of the argument (I did leave out the arguing between you and Jeff).
    • Zubrin wrote:

      The first post in this thread's third sentence, before about packs being boring, is about dropping $900+ a set in magic just for misprints/other goodies and, when I had last read this thread, on page three, there was an active discussion, started by metronomy, about whales. I read every post of the thread within 24 hours of having the conversation and that framing both at the beginning and the end (where I last read it) contextualized my memory of the argument (I did leave out the arguing between you and Jeff).
      That wasn't there to show whaley-ness (absolutely not a word) though, that was there to point out that opening packs is fun and should be exciting (and that being a thing, was why X amount if spent). It was the latter part, not the former part, that was important.

      Whether you spend $6 for 3 packs or $2 for 1 pack or $900 for 450 packs, opening them all should have a level of excitement. Hex fails there.

      And yeah, Jeff's stuff should've been left out because it was complete and utter nonsense.
    • What if like, whenever a pack was opened (NOT in limited) iit had a Primal like chance (regardless of whether it was purchased from the store, or AH or whatever) to create a Tournament entry to to some exclusive tournament. Prize could be more packs, or exclusive sleeves, or well whatever. Would that get more packs cracked?
      Message me here! (Or in game)
    • I mean. Really the idea is to put fancy cards people will use and other people can see in them. To give packs a value that nothing else has. Sleeves can't be traded and kind of have value but not really? Tournament entries and more packs are uh, you know something just seems wrong about it. I always felt it was a bit silly you could get a pack out of a chest you got from a pack. Russian Nesting Hex.

      Edit: But to answer the question - Anything you can ONLY get from packs would get more packs opened, provided that thing doesn't suck ass.
    • Asimov wrote:

      What if like, whenever a pack was opened (NOT in limited) iit had a Primal like chance (regardless of whether it was purchased from the store, or AH or whatever) to create a Tournament entry to to some exclusive tournament. Prize could be more packs, or exclusive sleeves, or well whatever. Would that get more packs cracked?
      I don't think putting in things that can ONLY come if you open them 'by hand' rather than in a tournament is the right way to go.
    • Rendakor wrote:

      Asimov wrote:

      What if like, whenever a pack was opened (NOT in limited) iit had a Primal like chance (regardless of whether it was purchased from the store, or AH or whatever) to create a Tournament entry to to some exclusive tournament. Prize could be more packs, or exclusive sleeves, or well whatever. Would that get more packs cracked?
      I don't think putting in things that can ONLY come if you open them 'by hand' rather than in a tournament is the right way to go.
      Absolutely this, it should come from any form of opening a pack.
    • schild wrote:

      This thread was about making packs worth opening outside of limited.
      Can you provide some practical examples of how you would accomplish this without effectively punishing people for opening packs while playing limited?

      Putting chase cards in the packs doesn't do this because players can still open said chase cards in their limited events.

      Cory talked about getting more money from smaller players - he probably doesn't care if they are using that money to open packs directly or using them to play limited.

      EDIT: Also - how are you measuring what "worth" is. Are you using just the dollar amount or some subjective "fun" measure from viewing an animation or something?
    • In the same fashion that you can get a primal pack while busting packs for limited, you'd just get whatever the new pack add-ins were; if you saddle up for a 3 pack entry fee tournament, independent of whatever picks are being made you'd get a payout of whatever added goodies were in those packs. Either way, it's added incentive to open packs, whether in the course of pursuing tournament play or just having fun popping them open.
    • Blackwood wrote:

      In the same fashion that you can get a primal pack while busting packs for limited, you'd just get whatever the new pack add-ins were; if you saddle up for a 3 pack entry fee tournament, independent of whatever picks are being made you'd get a payout of whatever added goodies were in those packs. Either way, it's added incentive to open packs, whether in the course of pursuing tournament play or just having fun popping them open.
      Sure, putting more money inside of packs makes people want to crack them more. The point of this thread, at least I thought was this though:

      This thread was about making packs worth opening outside of limited.

      Which simply putting things worth more money into packs doesn't do.
    • JeffHoogland wrote:

      schild wrote:

      This thread was about making packs worth opening outside of limited.
      Can you provide some practical examples of how you would accomplish this without effectively punishing people for opening packs while playing limited?
      Putting chase cards in the packs doesn't do this because players can still open said chase cards in their limited events.

      Cory talked about getting more money from smaller players - he probably doesn't care if they are using that money to open packs directly or using them to play limited.

      EDIT: Also - how are you measuring what "worth" is. Are you using just the dollar amount or some subjective "fun" measure from viewing an animation or something?
      Well:

      1. This idea of punishing people in draft is hot garbage. If you're drafting to win, you take what's best. If you're drafting for value, you're gonna take the most expensive thing. If you're just drafting to draft, you have a choice to make. You're not punishing people, it's just another branch on the decision tree. That whole foil goyf situation seems to have really crawled up your craw and stewed for a long while now. The correct play was take the foil goyf. Sorry.

      2. Cory is flying by the seat of his pants on that. There's no way he has data unless they quietly A/B tested packs with chase cards in them. You wanna know how to get "smaller" (whatever that means, a player is a player) to open more packs - make the packs exciting. You make the packs exciting by putting good shit in packs. This isn't complicated math.

      3. I don't know what you're asking here. If you mean "worth" opening as in the actual act of opening it needs to be more fun, no, the actual act of opening a pack is nearly irrelevant. Any animation is only interesting, even to the most dimwitted of humans, a couple of times. Much like a slot machine, "worth" is based on the potential of what you can get from a pack. That's literally all it is. If I open a pack, what's the biggest win I can get? Right now, it's a plain jane Bride of the Damned. This is not an incentive to open packs outside of limited tournaments.
    • JeffHoogland wrote:

      This thread was about making packs worth opening outside of limited.
      Which simply putting things worth more money into packs doesn't do.
      You're wrong? I don't know how else to tell you at this point. You're just plain wrong. Also "worth more money" is defined by the community, not HEX. So you're not just wrong, you're making an assumption that flies in the face of the past five years of WOTC's behavior.
    • My understanding is that it is about making packs more worth opening in general..so that you have a higher incentive to open packs outside of limited.
      The way I see it Schild wants to have an increased excitement while opening packs since for him opening packs just feels a bit uneventful/boring/unrewarding right now.

      He didnt say solely or exclusively and just one comment before yours he said "Absolutely this, it should come from any form of opening a pack.".

      So I assume this is just a misunderstanding.
    • schild wrote:

      You're wrong? I don't know how else to tell you at this point. You're just plain wrong. Also "worth more money" is defined by the community, not HEX. So you're not just wrong, you're making an assumption that flies in the face of the past five years of WOTC's behavior.
      Instead of just telling me "you are wrong" can you explain why? I don't understand where you are coming from.

      The way I see it:

      If the pack contents are the same opening them normally and opening them in an event, I should always play the event because then I can get prizes on top of the contents of the pack I opened.

      If there is a different view that I am missing here, please share.
    • Blackwood wrote:

      I personally open 100 - 150 packs outside of tournament settings each set, but I'm probably a strange outlier in that I have fun getting a deluge of new collection all at once to start sifting through and implementing into decks / puzzling over.
      And that is great - if you enjoy opening packs you should do it. Games are about having fun, people should do what they enjoy.

      I'm just focusing on the point of this thread which is making it "worth" something more outside of limited, which if you are measuring dollar amounts only it always makes sense to play limited with your packs.