Make Packs Worth Buying, Also

    • At present there is no reason to open packs outside of a tournament. You get the primal chance on creation. Properly placed skins/AA/boards/tokens/mercs/whatever (not advocating anything in particular, just the idea) might actually make players consider burning through the massive amount of packs laying around rather than letting them stockpile. There is no reason to buy packs to open outside the 1.whatever % chance for a primal, which is not a reason. Packs get opened, Hex makes money. More reasons to even consider opening packs out of tournaments is a good thing.
    • WOTC doesn't care how packs get opened and I doubt HXE does either honestly. Data doesn't exist to show how much is opened to open VS how much is opened for events, but you can very easily do the calculation to see the EV of a booster pack and see that opening one is lost money (even in sets with chase cards). This means people who do not want to waste money will use their packs to play in events where they can earn prizes, thus increasing the value of their packs, or buy singles. Generally from people who opened stuff while playing events.

      I get it - some people don't care about money and they are allowed to do as they please. Anyone who cares about expected value of what they are getting is not just ripping packs for the sake of it though if they are paying retail for said packs.
    • What Jeff is saying makes sense and it is kind of dumbfounding that schild is trying to contradict it. If packs had super rare things you would still open them in tournaments and it is highly unlikely that current behavior would change.

      The only way that the op's idea could work is if you get something extra by opening at the kismet wheel rather than at tournaments. That is a aweful idea and looks like a major cash grab. Let Hex focus their resources on other things then what the op is saying.
    • JeffHoogland wrote:

      WOTC doesn't care how packs get opened and I doubt HXE does either honestly. Data doesn't exist to show how much is opened to open VS how much is opened for events, but you can very easily do the calculation to see the EV of a booster pack and see that opening one is lost money (even in sets with chase cards). This means people who do not want to waste money will use their packs to play in events where they can earn prizes, thus increasing the value of their packs, or buy singles. Generally from people who opened stuff while playing events.

      I get it - some people don't care about money and they are allowed to do as they please. Anyone who cares about expected value of what they are getting is not just ripping packs for the sake of it though if they are paying retail for said packs.

      [Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/kJNQa1U.gif]
    • Pandaemonium wrote:

      What Jeff is saying makes sense and it is kind of dumbfounding that schild is trying to contradict it. If packs had super rare things you would still open them in tournaments and it is highly unlikely that current behavior would change.

      The only way that the op's idea could work is if you get something extra by opening at the kismet wheel rather than at tournaments. That is a aweful idea and looks like a major cash grab. Let Hex focus their resources on other things then what the op is saying.
      Jeff's lack of understanding of the casual market and the collector's market is actually incredible. I get where he's coming from, I just find it astoundingly stupid. But then, economically speaking, I'm pretty sure Jeff and I are from entirely different planets.

      Suffice it to say, there's no way to swing this other than simply stating: He's wrong. In nearly every conceivable way.

      Edit: Other than packs being negative EV. He's right about that. Everyone knows that though, and yet, packs still get cracked. Constantly. For no reason than the enjoyment of cracking packs.
    • schild wrote:

      Pandaemonium wrote:

      What Jeff is saying makes sense and it is kind of dumbfounding that schild is trying to contradict it. If packs had super rare things you would still open them in tournaments and it is highly unlikely that current behavior would change.

      The only way that the op's idea could work is if you get something extra by opening at the kismet wheel rather than at tournaments. That is a aweful idea and looks like a major cash grab. Let Hex focus their resources on other things then what the op is saying.
      Jeff's lack of understanding of the casual market and the collector's market is actually incredible. I get where he's coming from, I just find it astoundingly stupid. But then, economically speaking, I'm pretty sure Jeff and I are from entirely different planets.
      Suffice it to say, there's no way to swing this other than simply stating: He's wrong. In nearly every conceivable way.

      Edit: Other than packs being negative EV. He's right about that. Everyone knows that though, and yet, packs still get cracked. Constantly. For no reason than the enjoyment of cracking packs.
      Who are you trying to appeal to the casual market or the collector market? If it is the casual market you are wrong on so many levels it is scary.

      If it is the collector market, hex needs to think about issuing some type of sanction for this thread. You come across as extremely arrogant and your posts are made only to provoke. Like when you say you and Jeff are from two different planets economically speaking. Even if you are a whale, hex should take some action.
    • Pandaemonium wrote:

      schild wrote:

      Pandaemonium wrote:

      What Jeff is saying makes sense and it is kind of dumbfounding that schild is trying to contradict it. If packs had super rare things you would still open them in tournaments and it is highly unlikely that current behavior would change.

      The only way that the op's idea could work is if you get something extra by opening at the kismet wheel rather than at tournaments. That is a aweful idea and looks like a major cash grab. Let Hex focus their resources on other things then what the op is saying.
      Jeff's lack of understanding of the casual market and the collector's market is actually incredible. I get where he's coming from, I just find it astoundingly stupid. But then, economically speaking, I'm pretty sure Jeff and I are from entirely different planets.Suffice it to say, there's no way to swing this other than simply stating: He's wrong. In nearly every conceivable way.

      Edit: Other than packs being negative EV. He's right about that. Everyone knows that though, and yet, packs still get cracked. Constantly. For no reason than the enjoyment of cracking packs.
      Who are you trying to appeal to the casual market or the collector market? If it is the casual market you are wrong on so many levels it is scary.
      If it is the collector market, hex needs to think about issuing some type of sanction for this thread. You come across as extremely arrogant and your posts are made only to provoke. Like when you say you and Jeff are from two different planets economically speaking. Even if you are a whale, hex should take some action.
      Once again, the title of the thread was not "Come in here and tell me how to enjoy the game." Which is what Jeff did. Also, I don't appreciate the comparison of Jeff's pot to my kettle. Jeff is the only person implying that only someone stupid would crack packs for fun. I made no such claim. Painting me as arrogant is absurdist comedy at best considering I'm literally telling Hex to take more money from me.

      Name one level on which I'm wrong though, please. If it's so many. Because catering to collectors and casuals is probably the easiest two markets to hit at the exact same time.

      Also, yes, Hex should take action. They should make packs more fun to open. And now that we're back to square one, the thread can get back on topic.
    • schild wrote:

      Come in here and tell me how to enjoy the game.
      Where did I tell you how to do that? Quote me. I simply pointed out that what you are asking isn't possible and then gave, what I thought, where clear, logical reasons why.

      All you keep doing is waving your arms and claiming I don't understand without actually trying to help anyone understand.

      What do you want Hex to do? What would make packs "more fun to open"? Be specific. Specific feedback helps bring about useful results.
    • JeffHoogland wrote:

      schild wrote:

      Come in here and tell me how to enjoy the game.
      Where did I tell you how to do that? Quote me. I simply pointed out that what you are asking isn't possible and then gave, what I thought, where clear, logical reasons why.
      All you keep doing is waving your arms and claiming I don't understand without actually trying to help anyone understand.

      What do you want Hex to do? What would make packs "more fun to open"? Be specific. Specific feedback helps bring about useful results.

      You answered your own question earlier, and you were as specific as me, which is specific enough since we're not paid to make the game.

      I don't see how adding varied items to packs makes just opening them instead of playing sealed / draft / evo with them any more appealing.

      Thing is, you don't see the varied items adding entertainment value. As such, you self-assessed that you're not adequately equipped to see why anyone would care.

      That is to say, you are not the target audience for literally anything in this thread.
    • Then at best you're making a comparison and value judgment of cracking packs versus naturally opening them through play.

      Which isn't what I'm talking about at all.

      Some people like to open packs.

      You ever been to Vegas and played anything besides blackjack or poker?
    • Well that escalated quickly into what seems like pedantics...

      schild wrote:

      there's literally nothing interesting I can open in a pack after the first week
      If that's true then you are in a very small minority of players, we're talking fractions of a percent. I do think however, rewards / items / cards could be presented in a more engaging and flashy way (most notably chests which I mentioned earlier). Rewards don't really feel particularly rewarding and that's a problem when it comes to hooking / retaining new players. Most of my feedback is in regards to presentation rather than content. Though something like sketch cards or some sort of consumable / vanity style item added to packs in place of the 17th card would something I'd be all about.

      One more thing on the chest note for me is that most chests contain complete garbage, stuff that you have absolutely no use for. Even getting dust or some sort of a bulk consumable / craft-able from common chests is better than what we have. Spinning chests is more rewarding than opening them, which I think is as it should be since spinning is a sink, but the disparity / gap is huge. Ossuary has outlined that in the past though better than I can here.
    • If one reaaaally doesn't want to play Limited because they don't have time or because they don't like human interaction or whatever and they don't care about chests and WoF rewards one bit... then yes, there's little reason for them to buy packs. They can buy playsets one single at the time from the AH. If they want a reason to buy packs themselves, then the reasons listed in the OP might do the trick.

      I agree with Funktion that this thread got blown out of proportion. It's a player's suggestion, that's all. In all honesty, I'm not sure it'd be profitable for HXE, putting the extra work to make some packs worth more for such a reason. I agree that there must exist such players (exhibit A: Schild) but it must be a very fringe group.
    • I see the problem - after opning 200-500 pack from same set there are nothing excition about opning more packs because you got 4 copies of all card.
      Pack in MtG are much more expensive so it takes more money before you get this problem in MtG.
      If you paided doubled or trible price for boosts in HEX you might not have tis problrm

      If you want to spened more just try to collect all the sleeves...

      I sugest - get a life.
    • Schild, you need to understand something.

      1st- Paper TCG and Digital TCG are very different. I used to play paper magic and buy boxes of cards just to pop them out. There were alot of reasons, going from discounted box to having lots of cards to brew my casual need.

      2nd (the most important). If i bought a discounted box at my LGS the only thing i could do was to open them. I could not use them in drafts (ok with my friends but i did not have 8 friends to draft all the time). In a digital TCG you don't only have 1 choice. You usually keep the packs to enter another limited event, sell your big winnings of packs to feed plat and buy other cards, or just open them. But just opening them is not a good choice in a DIGITAL game where you can just play as many drafts as you want.

      The reason i used to open the packs are a mix of 1 and 2. I could not just play 16 drafts in one weekend at my LGS to feed my collection or to have fun, In Hex i can play anytime drafts with the packs i have so opening them just is not .. how should i put... Logical.

      Each time i want to open packs, i just enter a draft of an EVO and give myself a chance of more cards and winnings, which you can't do with paper magic.

      Oh lets compare magic to magic,

      Paper magic, people open boxes and boxes (they really do ) just to have cards.

      MTGO: people don't open packs because packs have other use (limited, selling)


      so no matter what is inside the packs, you will open them in an event.

      Now what you can do is encourage people to BUY packs.. by I don't know giving them something extra ramdomly...like..Primal packs.. that encourages buying packs. which is the no1 priority for Hex
    • I just wanted to throw in that packs desperately need a better animation when opening them. Not only when opening them from the inventory but also when entering sealed gauntlets and maybe even drafts.
      Just compare HEX to other games in this regard, when you open packs in other games legendarys are celebrated in a way that would make even Micheal Bay proud. The legendary just turning around with a red glow or not even showing animation at all in EVO etc is somewhat lame. We need exciting pack opening streams. Embrace the power of the digital realm!