Draft Gauntlet feedback

    • NicoSharp wrote:

      Draft seems to be growing in popularity, but it's likely for the wrong reasons.

      Examples:
      - Being able to go infinite is pushing people from more desired modes, like EVO or Sealed, into Draft to sustain their limited hobby.

      - While it may be amazing to brag about getting 4 Sweep Away's, and 4 Dread Deployments, and 3 Tech-ticians in your pool, the element of hate drafting has little weight.

      - Some players are doing better because they are adapting faster to what the format demands than others. (Old habits die hard)

      Outside of that, it's pretty fun, and feels slightly more rewarding even if you go 1-2. That Kismet Curio I got for 1-2 last night should have been a Rune Ear Hierophant, I'll submit a bug report.
      Where are you seeing drafts growing in popularity? Around 28 more pods fired a few days ago compared to when gauntlet started. The chart shows a steady decline so it could be way less in the future.
    • Anecdotal evidence seeing queues fire during my peak play time. Nothing solid. Also personal shift in play as well. Also feedback from players in guild.

      Draft will not attract new players IMO. So a drop off in popularity may have several other factors linked to the already current limited playerbase that loves to grind it.
    • It's hard to get anything to fire on Friday night swig :)

      Not to swig, but to Panda - Disproving a statement I start by saying, "Seems to be growing in popularity", by providing evidence showing it isn't growing is not what I was getting at with my statement in the first place. As many probably already know I am not a huge fan of the shift in draft format, but just another old school drafter trying to come to grips with it. What I am saying is, I see it growing on people that I know love limited. Including myself, even though I'd prefer old school draft pods for the greater sense of skill.
    • gauntlet stops being interesting much faster than the old drafts. there's just a lot less strategic depth, so it's a format that gets old after 4 weeks instead of 4 months.

      it has also created a world where there's no reason to play hex at off-peak hours

      if i started playing in 2017 instead of 2014, i would have quit because i would not have figured out that i should try to find games in the middle of the day (california time) instead of at night
    • *shock*

      So, once the novelty ran out, Async Draft Gauntlet is on the same levels of play as Traditional Draft. Colour me surprised. At least it is faster to finish a run, if you want to do it in one sitting.

      Hopefuly that means that the time of both coexisting is getting closer.
    • nobody would complain about pods firing if the playerbase would be x times higher as it is now - thats the main point in this whole discussion.

      more players = no problems - maybe even normal drafts too...

      dont blame the system for the lack of activity - draft gauntlet is fine and it wont go away no matter how many pods are firing.

      average steam numbers are close to the all time low on november, and the summer is just starting...
      Austrian Kickstarter & Slacker Backer
      -=] Dont mess with the bull, you gonna get the horn [=-
    • Draft gauntlet is the only format that allows players to go infinite right now and that is a huge deal to every single value-oriented player. The price structure is competitive and the added rare even is a bonus compared to other formats (I am particularly happy about that Herofall I got once). The structure is mathematically completely fine even though it feels bad for players to go 1-2 and 1-2 in match 3 and be "punished" for it.

      The interest in draft naturally decreases over time as the latest set was released some time ago. I already mentioned that I would add normal competitive draft to see if there was more interest in it but I would still doubt it despite the format having more depth. I am pretty sure people would complain about the waiting times between rounds and during final deck creation step at some point.

      The addition of the weekend sealed clash has certainly not helped other limited formats to fire more often, especially among people with smaller wallets, because they have to decide whether they want to participate in a draft or go for a miracle sealed run for a higher price (or fantastic door prices).

      Cernz' comment tells you the real problem of the game and the limited scene. It's not the system's or payout's fault if the playerbase is too small.
    • Cernz wrote:

      average steam numbers are close to the all time low on november, and the summer is just starting.
      just about that : the steam number will never stop to fall because steam client is nowhere advertised. That don't mean activity is dropping as we can see in hexpvptools.net.

      Hell !steam number could be below 50 in one year from now, the activity data would still be stezdy or even better than now.
    • ah well :( steam client might not be advertised, but HEX itself isnt advertised anywhere, and if id have a steam profile and i somehow got hex into my view, id def. search for it on steam first.
      Austrian Kickstarter & Slacker Backer
      -=] Dont mess with the bull, you gonna get the horn [=-
    • Cernz wrote:

      ah well :( steam client might not be advertised, but HEX itself isnt advertised anywhere, and if id have a steam profile and i somehow got hex into my view, id def. search for it on steam first.
      we just had a ad campaign on reddit (display on Magic and Hearthstone subreddit) and the advertise don't talked about steam and directly point to the official site for download... where steam mention is nowhere to be read to... it is a potential reach of over 1 millions users... so...

      So really the only reliable source about Hex activity is hexpvptools.net nothing else.
      And reading data there show for example Scars of War launch see more activity than Hero fall launch : totally in contradiction with Steam numbers

      It'seems enough for me to say we don't have to care about steam data.
      1/ most of the new players don't come from there
      2/ most of the new players coming from steam are certainly casual players sticking to the solo p email content of the game.
    • maybe, maybe not.

      also steam has over 125 million users, so maybe they should think about their strategy.

      regarding hexpvptools - we are on a simlilar lvl as 6 month ago.
      Austrian Kickstarter & Slacker Backer
      -=] Dont mess with the bull, you gonna get the horn [=-
    • Gregangel wrote:

      Cernz wrote:

      ah well :( steam client might not be advertised, but HEX itself isnt advertised anywhere, and if id have a steam profile and i somehow got hex into my view, id def. search for it on steam first.
      we just had a ad campaign on reddit (display on Magic and Hearthstone subreddit) and the advertise don't talked about steam and directly point to the official site for download... where steam mention is nowhere to be read to... it is a potential reach of over 1 millions users... so...
      So really the only reliable source about Hex activity is hexpvptools.net nothing else.
      And reading data there show for example Scars of War launch see more activity than Hero fall launch : totally in contradiction with Steam numbers

      It'seems enough for me to say we don't have to care about steam data.
      1/ most of the new players don't come from there
      2/ most of the new players coming from steam are certainly casual players sticking to the solo p email content of the game.
      I am going to disagree on the bolded part because I find Steam to have a lot of big spenders. Users there have hundreds of game in their library, that is the opposite of casual(depending on the definition of course but non-spender they are not), and I certainly don't understand why some people here have utmost hate on the Steam platform but eh, people all have their own opinions.

      I do agree that we don't have to care about Steam data for now but I feel Hex is underutilizing the platform. I mean, you can have 100 reasons as to why Hex don't need Steam, which is very true, but rejecting a potential platform is idiotic from a business perspective. If there are 10 platforms, Hex should be on all of them, assuming they are free like Steam and the only cost is a share on any purchase there(earning 70% is better than 0%). There are a ton of Steam-only players that are unreachable otherwise. It's all about the value, and we play card game here so we obviously know about value. If Crocosaur can target 10 targets and my opponent have 10, I am definitely targeting all 10 of them.

      Also, a lot of new players are looking at the Steam stat for "player base". I mean, you have answered a ton of those "player base doubting" threads on Reddit(and also Steam forum? I don't frequent Hex's board a lot there) so I don't need to repeat what you already know. If we can build our Steam player base up, then we have the potential to attract more customers. Steam stat is just the easiest gauge to check with Steam being a big platform and the new players certainly are not going to know nor find HexPvpTools by Googling.
    • Goliathus wrote:

      I am going to disagree on the bolded part because I find Steam to have a lot of big spenders. Users there have hundreds of game in their library, that is the opposite of casual(depending on the definition of course but non-spender they are not), and I certainly don't understand why some people here have utmost hate on the Steam platform but eh, people all have their own opinions.

      I do agree that we don't have to care about Steam data for now but I feel Hex is underutilizing the platform. I mean, you can have 100 reasons as to why Hex don't need Steam, which is very true, but rejecting a potential platform is idiotic from a business perspective. If there are 10 platforms, Hex should be on all of them, assuming they are free like Steam and the only cost is a share on any purchase there(earning 70% is better than 0%). There are a ton of Steam-only players that are unreachable otherwise. It's all about the value, and we play card game here so we obviously know about value. If Crocosaur can target 10 targets and my opponent have 10, I am definitely targeting all 10 of them.

      Well, I still believe someone who find Hex on steam, never heard of it before, will only download the game because it is free and it say RPG. So yes most of the new player coming from steam won't go much farer than the solo rpg campaign. That's don't necessary mean they won't buy some plat even at a casual level.

      Nobody reject the plat-form. But it is not quit true to think because the game is on steam, the game will reach more potential players and particulary the paying ones. this is only a game released more than one year now among hundreds of title releaseds evey months on the plat-form.

      For Hex, steam was just a big one-shot better visibility for the game followed by tiny other burst of visibility if they paid some ad at new PVE update. So no economic reason to advertise the steam client more than they already do.

      And if that mean I and other have to explain on reddit or steam forum why people should not care about steamchart number a hundred of time more, i will ^^
    • Gregangel wrote:

      Goliathus wrote:

      I am going to disagree on the bolded part because I find Steam to have a lot of big spenders. Users there have hundreds of game in their library, that is the opposite of casual(depending on the definition of course but non-spender they are not), and I certainly don't understand why some people here have utmost hate on the Steam platform but eh, people all have their own opinions.

      I do agree that we don't have to care about Steam data for now but I feel Hex is underutilizing the platform. I mean, you can have 100 reasons as to why Hex don't need Steam, which is very true, but rejecting a potential platform is idiotic from a business perspective. If there are 10 platforms, Hex should be on all of them, assuming they are free like Steam and the only cost is a share on any purchase there(earning 70% is better than 0%). There are a ton of Steam-only players that are unreachable otherwise. It's all about the value, and we play card game here so we obviously know about value. If Crocosaur can target 10 targets and my opponent have 10, I am definitely targeting all 10 of them.
      Well, I still believe someone who find Hex on steam, never heard of it before, will only download the game because it is free and it say RPG. So yes most of the new player coming from steam won't go much farer than the solo rpg campaign. That's don't necessary mean they won't buy some plat even at a casual level.

      Nobody reject the plat-form. But it is not quit true to think because the game is on steam, the game will reach more potential players and particulary the paying ones. this is only a game released more than one year now among hundreds of title releaseds evey months on the plat-form.

      For Hex, steam was just a big one-shot better visibility for the game followed by tiny other burst of visibility if they paid some ad at new PVE update. So no economic reason to advertise the steam client more than they already do.

      And if that mean I and other have to explain on reddit or steam forum why people should not care about steamchart number a hundred of time more, i will ^^
      I don't get what makes you believe your first paragraph behind the first paragraph because Steam is never a "F2P platform". If it's like WanMei(the company responsible for Hex China), then sure, because WanMei is a MMORPG company that has a list of hundred free F2P games. There would be a ton of F2P players in the WanMei platform. Steam, I don't think so. Most of the games in Steam are paid to play, be it solo or multiplayer. The only exceptions are some MMOs that happened to be there or maybe things like Path of Exile, which is only a few percentage of the gazillions of game on Steam. The F2P-oriented players don't even have Steam because that's not the best spots to find games. They just find F2P games on the net and play those games. I know because I am from a country that has incredibly high game piracy where most gamers play F2P games. I also know Chinese and has frequent the "Piratebays of Asia", so I kind of see how most of them act and think. Majority of my country's gamers don't have Steam because they would not have any used of the platform(exceptions being DotA2 Players that need it to run DotA2, but those players only play DotA2 and are not there to explore the gaming catalogue). The gamers that own Steam in my place are all paying customers who invest money on their PC and their gaming hobbies, the opposite of a F2P gamer.

      I have seen games reaching a higher player base more than it doesn't by landing on Steam. Why else would most of the gmaing companies, big and small, take a 30% charge to have their game on the platform? Surely the profit outweights the service charge, these are huge companies with financial teams out there, they surely have calculated all the things and have all the data to refer to before making such decision. Whether those games are able to maintain their player base is another story. Hex is the exception to this, but exception doesn't triumph the norm. And I still see potential in utilizing Steam myself, but I am sure we are on two sides of this for reasons of our own.

      I don't see advertising Steam client to be "a hassle". I mean, if we are advertising on Youtube with a 30 seconds video ads for example. We can have "Also available on Steam" on the screen for 3 seconds and that would be advertising the Steam platform, and it doesn't cost anything extra than another version of the 30 seconds video ads anyway that don't have "Also available on Steam" on it.

      The problem I have with the last paragraph is that I feel like having to explain these things is people is not a good thing to the game. For instance, we often criticizes the game for not doing a good job to teach new player what to do and having to make other players guide them to the right place and whatever. I find the same about having to explain to potential new players about steam chart and such. I certainly hope one day we don't need to do that because the Steam chart active player for Hex is 10k, and no need explanation or doubt. But either way, I do appreciate your effort in spreading good light about this game in various places.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Goliathus ().

    • Not sure if this is the right place to speak about this, but I didn't want to start a new thread when there is a thread about draft gauntlet feedback.

      I think there should be something that prevents getting paired against the same person and the same deck in rounds 1 and 3.

      It just happened to me and it wasn't fun...
      hexpvptools.net/gauntlet/run/4619832977883219028

      If we acknowledge that limited might be a rock-papers-scissors format in which some decks have better matchups than others, it's really not fun to get the re-match when there is no possibility to win.

      This can't happen on a synchronous draft, and I don't know why should it happen on an asynchronous draft, in which the player count should be larger.