Friday Update - Difficult Dreams

    • OzawaWanderer wrote:

      Metronomy wrote:

      TLDR: Either move on and forget Hex or try to constructively critique where they went wrong and try and help them come back. To me your post I replied with "Negative much..?" is the equivalent of a bad break up. Seriously shut up forget Hex and move on if your THAT spiteful.


      Well

      1/you have no right to shush us if we do not share your cloud castle mood. We were emotionally and monetary invested in hex too - we kickstarted and played every day and created positive and constructive feedback the whole time they communicated at least a bit. We were patient for YEARS between AZs waiting for the PvE to be fleshed out. We saw the zero communication from the devs. And that gives us full right to bitch now. :D

      2/ personal issues (dark place, depression) is exactly that - personal issues. They should never went dark and and stop communicating, because ceo had a health issue. The thing to do is appoint temporary CEO, allow community managers to communicate, cut the dev team to bone and do the 100 low effort changes with positive gameplay impact. The mentioned things everyone suggested. Like - i dont know - change the brawl price a year ago?
      Do the monetary system changes when things were dicey (because there was nothing to lose at that point)? Keep the community and game alive? Not lose all the great infrastructure that community created for free for them? (databases, streamers, etc...)

      I know Hex was Cory's baby - but if you are depressed, is it ok to let the baby starve and die? No, you call social services to take care of the baby.

    • Metronomy wrote:

      with the information we had
      They may not recognize any mistakes, as you say (I personally didn't come to that conclusion) but the part you quoted and I highlight here is admitting that they were incompetent. They either didn't have enough information (incompetence) or they had bad information (incompetence).

      Metronomy wrote:

      It is just that I read all you guys writing about Hex 2 and it is starting to bother me a bit.
      I mean, we can talk about it, but it doesn't really mean anything. I bet everyone's prerequisites for spending any money on whatever new product are much higher than before and, most likely, won't be supporting HXE before they start showing any results (i.e, there will be no second successful kickstarter).

      Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

    • Id love to see the next year with sort of a relaunch, set 1 to current set with a fixed set release schedule, id really play a ton if this would be a thing, hell I even would spend some cash.

      On the other hand, current state of the art for another year, would mean I will keep away from hex and just wait and see what happens.
      Austrian Kickstarter & Slacker Backer
      -=] Dont mess with the bull, you gonna get the horn [=-

    • It is what Velorath writes.

      I have long moved on from the game.
      I sold my collection and my total financial investment into hex was around $20 (and I earned over 100 times of that with tournament prizes and by selling cards).

      There are no hard feelings except maybe about the missed opportunities (@Vroengard: I dont see that statement the way you do....I see it as "we did the best anyone possibly could" and not as "we failed to obtain better information").

      The reason I wrote was about some of the posts here being naively optimistic and I am just not sure if that is a healthy attitude in this case.

      But dont you worry...I have not much reason to write much more of anything at this point :D .

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Metronomy ().

    • Metronomy wrote:

      It is what Velorath writes.

      I have long moved on from the game.
      I sold my collection and my total financial investment into hex was around $20 (and I earned over 100 times of that with tournament prizes and by selling cards).

      There are no hard feelings except maybe about the missed opportunities (@Vroengard: I dont see that statement the way you do....I see it as "we did the best anyone possibly could" and not as "we failed to obtain better information").

      The reason I wrote was about some of the posts here being naively optimistic and I am just not sure if that is a healthy attitude in this case.

      But dont you worry...I have not much reason to write much more of anything at this point :D .
      At this point, I don't think that anyone is naively optimistic. Heck, not even optimistic. Everyone is saying "great, you're alive! Let's see what you will do".

      We're just a bunch of people that don't want to lose the hope on the game that we loved. I honestly think that there's things to be done to help the game. But if Cory's plan is to develop a new game and go radio silence for a year with no actual updates on Hex, well... I'll just do what I'm doing now: play other games, move on with my life and occasionally check the forums.

      The thing is: I don't think Hex can afford to do that. It would be a fatal mistake. I'll see the official stream on Monday to catch a glimpse of what's going on. If they keep the plan of being silent and just make some jokes on stream, well, count me out. I really hope that they've learnt the lesson and stop pretending to communicate like if they're a big company when in reality we're just a few guys trying to know what's going on and the game is almost dead.

      I'm not optimistic. I think that the game can't be in a worst state (any worst than this is shutting down the servers, which I think it actually might be better). So... This game either bumps or die. Let's hope for the first and be realistic about it.
      Twitter: @Plotynus

    • Pandaemonium wrote:

      Anyone hoping for followup about hex 2.0 anytime soon should really decrease their expectations. I hope I am wrong but if there is a true hex 2.0 with a different monetization method, than I dont think we will be hearing anything for another 14 months.

      Dont get me wrong I will reinstall and play a few games again.
      I'd imagine it would depend on how much stuff, if anything, they could salvage from the original, and what exactly Cory has been doing the late year or so in between all the side projects to keep the lights now. 14 months is probably a safe bet for further information, but if they're actually serious about wanting to go 2.0; i wouldn't put it past us having to wait 2-3 years for the actual game. Interest from the original community might be largely dead, but Hex 2.0 might be in name (and art) only and be marketed towards a different demographic altogether.

      Who knows?

      The one bright side in all of this would probably be there not being an impending lawsuit hanging over development like there was over Hex in the beginning. (Unless Cory wants to poke the bear that is Hasbro's legal department again.) Out of everything that hurt Hex, that legal battle and whatever the settlement with wotc was probably hurt the game the most. Hasbro wouldn't settle for anything that they didn't know wouldn't permantly harm the company in the long run.

    • Hi Cory,

      hopefully you read the few lines

      I got 3725 hours of HEX on my steam account, and its still increasing, especially on weekends. Guess a few thousands hours are not counted on non-steam-playing, but thats fine, guess you know that here is one of the guys that believed in HEX since day one. And opposite to many others speaking in this forum, I never stopped believing, really (although the last couple of months were hard). Sure, there were things I could not accept too, and I wish things went another route. But still, what you and your team created here, is the best game ever for me, speaking of over 30 years experiance in this "business".

      Its so good to hear, that despite so many guys here constantly saying "dead game, server shut down is comming very soon" things, there is still hope left. And even if HEX will never become a (big) commercial success, I will still love it.

      I wish you only the best for the new start. I don't expect too much on shortterm. But everything you will give us is appreciated.

      And to all the hater guys here on this forum: Please do me a favor and stay away (forever), in game and here in forum. We don't need you, HEX does not need you. Thanks.

      Greetings,
      Morshadoom

    • Morshadoom wrote:

      ...

      And to all the hater guys here on this forum: Please do me a favor and stay away (forever), in game and here in forum. We don't need you, HEX does not need you. Thanks.

      Greetings,
      Morshadoom
      But...

      But...

      What if one of those hater guys spends $5 and that keeps the servers open for a week longer so you can continue to play!?

      I don't think you can afford to chase people away at this point...

    • Morshadoom wrote:

      And to all the hater guys here on this forum: Please do me a favor and stay away (forever), in game and here in forum. We don't need you, HEX does not need you. Thanks.


      Greetings,
      Morshadoom
      You do realize that those "haters" were Hex's biggest buyers and supporters, spending hundreds if not thousands of dollars, right? It's a good thing that Hex still has their attention, even if it's negative attention at the moment, because that means there is still at least a small amount of interest there. Turning away those people now is basically turning away future money to support the game if Hex ever does actually dig themselves out of their hole and release new content in any way, shape, or form.

    • Erukk wrote:

      Morshadoom wrote:

      And to all the hater guys here on this forum: Please do me a favor and stay away (forever), in game and here in forum. We don't need you, HEX does not need you. Thanks.


      Greetings,
      Morshadoom
      You do realize that those "haters" were Hex's biggest buyers and supporters, spending hundreds if not thousands of dollars, right? It's a good thing that Hex still has their attention, even if it's negative attention at the moment, because that means there is still at least a small amount of interest there. Turning away those people now is basically turning away future money to support the game if Hex ever does actually dig themselves out of their hole and release new content in any way, shape, or form.
      Nope, most I refer to never spend a dime or just very, very little money, I am pretty sure. Ofc there are some big spenders that are disappointed too, but I don't know one of them I would call a "hater". Thats reserved for some other guys here.

      And the haters did this game a lot of damage (even when things were still quit ok, some years ago), probably same or more as the radio silince for over a year from the developpers.

    • This should be obvious, but insults and insinuations against other people posting in the forums is unproductive. Claims that people are deluded with positivity or pessimistic with negativity contribute nothing to the conversation, and could in fact contribute to a "toxic" culture that may turn away people in the future. I'm not a mod, but please try to keep this thread focused on the contents of the Friday Update.

      There is nothing wrong with being optimistic and hoping for Hex to become popular, profitable, and fun in the future. This optimism merely needs to be balanced against the reality that any "Hex2" release will probably take several years to emerge, if it ever happens at all, and may not be the game as we know it. After all, Cory didn't promise anything this time; he merely stated that it is their long-term goal.

      There is nothing wrong with being realistic that, after the initial failure of Hex, any attempt to refresh or rebrand the game has an extremely high bar to clear for the gaming community (outside of Hex loyalists) to give it another chance. This realism merely needs to be balanced against the promise that the developers will try again, and they know better than to hype things up this time. They made mistakes in the past, they acknowledge them, and (assuming they are rational people) they will try to learn from them, so they don't need to be reminded of those mistakes at every opportunity.

      There is nothing wrong with providing suggestions for things that you want to see in Hex2. Just be aware that they probably won't come to fruition, and other people might disagree.

      There is nothing wrong with constructive criticism of others' suggestions. Just be aware that outright dismissal can be seen as combative, and different people enjoy Hex for different reasons.

      Also, I'll add, it would be nice if Cory were to be active in the forums and provide follow-up, but I understand if he doesn't. I can't imagine anything else he could say at this point that would actually be satisfying to the majority of people here. I for one am willing to just be patient, with limited expectations, and wait to see what happens next.

    • To be fair, a lot of the negativity in the community could had been handled better by HXE but they decided an awful path and engage a radio silence fight against it. Having a semi-dead game is fully responsibility of HXE. All in all, they took all the decisions they took. Not the community.

      And here I'm thinking they won't make those mistakes again in a more critical scenario. Well... Maybe I'm a little naive :)
      Twitter: @Plotynus

    • Morshadoom wrote:



      And to all the hater guys here on this forum: Please do me a favor and stay away (forever), in game and here in forum. We don't need you, HEX does not need you. Thanks.

      Nobody would be here posting on this forum right now if they were a hater. The people you consider haters are only bothering to respond to this thread because we all loved this game and sunk countless hours into it. We would all like nothing more than for Hex or some future iteration of it to rise from the ashes.

      But we all have to remember the mismanagement and lack of communication that led us to the point where we are now. Realistically, knowing that before the radio silence that HXE was struggling to pay the artists, didn't have the funds to complete set 10, and only just recently were finally able to pay off the last outstanding tournament prizes, what position do you think they're in financially to make a new Hex game? If they couldn't generate enough to fund new content for Hex as it is now, it's not bringing in enough to fund a new game, so where is that money going to come from? If it comes down to crowdfunding again, they're going to need to explain in detail why things are going to be different this time and we're going to need to look very critically at what they tell us.

    • I believe the best thing to be done is to give some form of communication that's consistent. There are a lot of us who are mildly intrigued by the notion of Hex coming back but we all have reservations in general. We can't really support a game the ceo promised to revive if all we get is "we're working on 2.0" if the team that's left and Cory actually decide to talk to us I think it'll help.
      Lore Hound: Self Proclaimed Expert to Hex Lore (and right 80% of time with theories)

    • OzawaWanderer wrote:

      I believe the best thing to be done is to give some form of communication that's consistent. There are a lot of us who are mildly intrigued by the notion of Hex coming back but we all have reservations in general. We can't really support a game the ceo promised to revive if all we get is "we're working on 2.0" if the team that's left and Cory actually decide to talk to us I think it'll help.
      well, that's basically what we're saying :)
      Twitter: @Plotynus

    • Plotynus wrote:

      OzawaWanderer wrote:

      I believe the best thing to be done is to give some form of communication that's consistent. There are a lot of us who are mildly intrigued by the notion of Hex coming back but we all have reservations in general. We can't really support a game the ceo promised to revive if all we get is "we're working on 2.0" if the team that's left and Cory actually decide to talk to us I think it'll help.
      well, that's basically what we're saying :)
      And I said it faster :P
      Lore Hound: Self Proclaimed Expert to Hex Lore (and right 80% of time with theories)

    • I have two thoughts on Hex 2. The first is that if you're looking for longevity and replayability in content, we can learn a lot from Hearthstone's mini adventure packs. Mainly, that replayability comes from randomization in the content. Not facing the same enemies and using some randomization in card selection means you're getting a different experience each time. It's the same reason that draft is so resiliently popular. It stays fresh because it's unpredictable different each time. Applying these randomizations to PvE content means people will be able to replay that content many more times. I enjoyed Hex's PvE, and replayed through it once on each character, because it was unique each time, which is also great, but more random elements (like the Kraken's Gold dungeon affecting some of your cards) will improve longevity further.

      And second, every time I see someone say "probably 2-3 years away" I can't help but wonder if people have forgotten how long Hex1 took to develop. If they started on Hex2 right now, I wouldn't expect anything for 5+ years, to be perfectly honest. It's not 'coming.' It's a slow long haul, scraping together every penny from Hex1 to develop the next project. Any real progress is undoubtedly going to depend on some kind of revitalization of Hex1, as well. So. Just to set expectations.
      Old username: Aradon | Collector backer | Starting a guild for Newbies -- "The Cerulean Acadamy" -- Taking applications once guilds are implemented

    • Obsidian wrote:

      I have two thoughts on Hex 2. The first is that if you're looking for longevity and replayability in content, we can learn a lot from Hearthstone's mini adventure packs. Mainly, that replayability comes from randomization in the content. Not facing the same enemies and using some randomization in card selection means you're getting a different experience each time. It's the same reason that draft is so resiliently popular. It stays fresh because it's unpredictable different each time. Applying these randomizations to PvE content means people will be able to replay that content many more times. I enjoyed Hex's PvE, and replayed through it once on each character, because it was unique each time, which is also great, but more random elements (like the Kraken's Gold dungeon affecting some of your cards) will improve longevity further.

      And second, every time I see someone say "probably 2-3 years away" I can't help but wonder if people have forgotten how long Hex1 took to develop. If they started on Hex2 right now, I wouldn't expect anything for 5+ years, to be perfectly honest. It's not 'coming.' It's a slow long haul, scraping together every penny from Hex1 to develop the next project. Any real progress is undoubtedly going to depend on some kind of revitalization of Hex1, as well. So. Just to set expectations.
      By randomization I hope you don't mean that PVE should focus on what HS does and draft but against a annoyingly op ai puzzle boss. I've tried their candle dungeon draft gauntlet whatever and it's annoying...

      Technically speaking there is some... Credit to "focus on pve" We have like (averaging to 150 per set not going to actually count) 1300 pvp cards so Hex if (I hope) reborn can keep the system they got now can totally work what they can do is rebuild each set to work with new system but develop PVE. That way everyone's happy. After say Chapter 5 of PVE and all 6 classes are released then start development on Set 10.
      Lore Hound: Self Proclaimed Expert to Hex Lore (and right 80% of time with theories)

    • OzawaWanderer wrote:

      I believe the best thing to be done is to give some form of communication that's consistent. There are a lot of us who are mildly intrigued by the notion of Hex coming back but we all have reservations in general. We can't really support a game the ceo promised to revive if all we get is "we're working on 2.0" if the team that's left and Cory actually decide to talk to us I think it'll help.
      Conversely, I would actually argue (at least until they have something concrete to share) that radio silence might be the best course of action.

      That way, there are no promises to keep, no hype to struggle to satisfy, and no deadlines to fall short of. They can work on development undisturbed, for however long it takes, to release a product that they are happy with. Lack of updates won't cause drama if there aren't expected to be any updates at all, so internal setbacks won't become public and damaging. In the meantime, they have the income from their side projects to keep things stable.

    • Draknos wrote:

      OzawaWanderer wrote:

      I believe the best thing to be done is to give some form of communication that's consistent. There are a lot of us who are mildly intrigued by the notion of Hex coming back but we all have reservations in general. We can't really support a game the ceo promised to revive if all we get is "we're working on 2.0" if the team that's left and Cory actually decide to talk to us I think it'll help.
      Conversely, I would actually argue (at least until they have something concrete to share) that radio silence might be the best course of action.
      That way, there are no promises to keep, no hype to struggle to satisfy, and no deadlines to fall short of. They can work on development undisturbed, for however long it takes, to release a product that they are happy with. Lack of updates won't cause drama if there aren't expected to be any updates at all, so internal setbacks won't become public and damaging. In the meantime, they have the income from their side projects to keep things stable.
      While I understand your thought process, I don't think the internet would cooperate. We had a long period of intentional and very clearly broadcast radio silence, and people were still upset.
      Yeah, overhype would be bad, but as usual, expectations just have to be managed. CZE's never been great at that, though.
      Old username: Aradon | Collector backer | Starting a guild for Newbies -- "The Cerulean Acadamy" -- Taking applications once guilds are implemented