Please stop the 44, 111, and 311 buyout scam.

    • Silvanos wrote:

      I'm against this behavior, but I don't think I agree with banning people who are using the AH in a perfectly legitimate manner. They aren't exploiting the game. It's on the dev's to make an AH that functions better. The vast majority of these scams only work because the AH has really stupid sorting bugs/defaults. If it just always defaulted to sorting by the lowest buyout, no one would ever even see these overpriced auctions. The solution is not policing human behavior, it's making an AH that works.

      It's ok because it's not an 'exploit', just a 'scam'. Some real strange logic here.
    • I am OK with buyer beware if buyers have the tools to "be aware". Right now those tools exist in third party sites that a new/casual player isn't going to know about. An update to the client to provide auction history with bare bones analysis would be enough.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Sinkhole ().

    • Winds wrote:

      If we are going to be punishing the sellers for this, can we also punish the buyers who buy things that are so obviously posted wrongly in gold? Things like 1000gold Dark Heart and such? After all, the buyers who buy it definitely know that it was a mistake and are taking advantage and scamming the seller :p
      You can't punish this cos someone's gonna buy those.
      You could very easily have a 5 minute delay between submitting an item and the item going live.
      You could also very easily have a much clearer visible cue for the currency you're listing.
    • Timlagor wrote:

      Winds wrote:

      If we are going to be punishing the sellers for this, can we also punish the buyers who buy things that are so obviously posted wrongly in gold? Things like 1000gold Dark Heart and such? After all, the buyers who buy it definitely know that it was a mistake and are taking advantage and scamming the seller :P
      You can't punish this cos someone's gonna buy those.You could very easily have a 5 minute delay between submitting an item and the item going live.
      You could also very easily have a much clearer visible cue for the currency you're listing.
      Why not? it is obviously not the right price and you are taking advantage of the seller. Why is it that ppl taking advantage of careless buyers is considered scamming but ppl taking advantage of careless sellers are not?

      Quote below stolen from smallbusiness.chron.com/compan…nsible-mistake-73117.html

      Display Spoiler


      Online Standards
      When an e-commerce website has had an incorrect price entered into its database, it can end up not only advertising that price but also accepting orders and charging customers' credit cards for that amount. The central issue here is whether retailers can void the contract created when orders were accepted. The easiest way for a company to deal with such situations is to have website "terms of use" that clearly state the company can cancel orders and refund customers' money because of pricing errors (or for any reason). Otherwise, a common law doctrine known as "unilateral mistake of fact" applies. This doctrine allows a party to a contract to set aside the contract if honoring it would be "unconscionable," or if the other party could have reasonably assumed it was a mistake. A $1,000 item advertised for $10 likely would meet this definition.




      I think a 1000g Dark Heart would fall under the above definition and the seller should not be forced to sell at that price and thus ppl who intentionally abuse this should be punished or at the least have the transaction reversed :P
    • Timlagor wrote:

      Reverse the transaction by all means. I could get behind that.

      There's definitely a difference between grabbing a bargain that someone's already put up and trying to induce the mistake yourself.
      What if he had already sold it? or traded it away? reverse that as well? Or do force him to pay market price by removing his plat/gold? Or Hex creates a new card for the seller?

      All three options are not feasible. They create more problems, a lot more than the 'scam' of 311. So if seller of 311 needs to be banned, then buyer of 1000g should also be banned. Or, better yet, just change the AH and let the market decide the prices :)
    • Winds wrote:

      If we are going to be punishing the sellers for this, can we also punish the buyers who buy things that are so obviously posted wrongly in gold? Things like 1000gold Dark Heart and such? After all, the buyers who buy it definitely know that it was a mistake and are taking advantage and scamming the seller :p
      That's an entirely different problem with an entirely different solution. It also is not really related to what this thread is about. If buyers mistakenly listing things for the wrong price is something that you think is common and should be addressed you should start a thread about that. These two situations are not equivalent.
    • They're not going to police individual sales. And they're certainly not going to be rolling back transactions.

      That being said, I expect this to become a non-issue in the coming months.
      Hex: Shards of Fate KS | Producer | Bounty of the Magus Highlands Magus

      "Hoarded or shared, knowledge is the most fearsome weapon of all."
      "The Magi of the Carloth highlands are renowned for their enthusiasm and generosity."
      "Speed is far more important than size when determining the power of a strike."
      "One needs no armor if both your mind and your fist are faster than your enemy's."
    • We all know AH improvements are coming. But it's been literally years that this has been an issue. People have been calling for the default sort to be lowest buyout since I started the game over two years ago. The main excuse for it not to be changed was it takes dev time. Then they put dev time into implementing the cheapest only single filter and that excuse went out the window. Why did they not listen to the community and put that dev time into changing the default sorting?

      I'm very worried that the people making decisions about the AH have never actually used it and don't understand why people hate it so much. That is the only explanation that makes sense to me.
    • GobBluth wrote:

      We all know AH improvements are coming. But it's been literally years that this has been an issue. People have been calling for the default sort to be lowest buyout since I started the game over two years ago. The main excuse for it not to be changed was it takes dev time. Then they put dev time into implementing the cheapest only single filter and that excuse went out the window. Why did they not listen to the community and put that dev time into changing the default sorting?

      I'm very worried that the people making decisions about the AH have never actually used it and don't understand why people hate it so much. That is the only explanation that makes sense to me.
      You can choose to be upset about the past. :( Or look forward to a world in which it's immeasurably better. :)
      Hex: Shards of Fate KS | Producer | Bounty of the Magus Highlands Magus

      "Hoarded or shared, knowledge is the most fearsome weapon of all."
      "The Magi of the Carloth highlands are renowned for their enthusiasm and generosity."
      "Speed is far more important than size when determining the power of a strike."
      "One needs no armor if both your mind and your fist are faster than your enemy's."
    • Colin wrote:

      GobBluth wrote:

      We all know AH improvements are coming. But it's been literally years that this has been an issue. People have been calling for the default sort to be lowest buyout since I started the game over two years ago. The main excuse for it not to be changed was it takes dev time. Then they put dev time into implementing the cheapest only single filter and that excuse went out the window. Why did they not listen to the community and put that dev time into changing the default sorting?

      I'm very worried that the people making decisions about the AH have never actually used it and don't understand why people hate it so much. That is the only explanation that makes sense to me.
      You can choose to be upset about the past. :( Or look forward to a world in which it's immeasurably better. :)
      Those who do not learn from the past are bound to repeat it :)
    • Colin wrote:

      GobBluth wrote:

      We all know AH improvements are coming. But it's been literally years that this has been an issue. People have been calling for the default sort to be lowest buyout since I started the game over two years ago. The main excuse for it not to be changed was it takes dev time. Then they put dev time into implementing the cheapest only single filter and that excuse went out the window. Why did they not listen to the community and put that dev time into changing the default sorting?

      I'm very worried that the people making decisions about the AH have never actually used it and don't understand why people hate it so much. That is the only explanation that makes sense to me.
      You can choose to be upset about the past. :( Or look forward to a world in which it's immeasurably better. :)
      I choose both.
    • Funktion wrote:

      Winds wrote:

      If we are going to be punishing the sellers for this, can we also punish the buyers who buy things that are so obviously posted wrongly in gold? Things like 1000gold Dark Heart and such? After all, the buyers who buy it definitely know that it was a mistake and are taking advantage and scamming the seller :P
      That's an entirely different problem with an entirely different solution. It also is not really related to what this thread is about. If buyers mistakenly listing things for the wrong price is something that you think is common and should be addressed you should start a thread about that. These two situations are not equivalent.
      Not that different, both involve one careless person (buyer who did not read properly/seller who did not post properly) and one person (buyer who keep refreshing AH to find deals in gold that should be in plat / seller who post misleading figures) who is looking to take advantage of said careless person. I just don't understand why one party should be punished but not the other.
    • While I really dislike people enlisting cards for those scammy prices you gotta keep in mind that you always have to be cautious when spending money. Imho reading the price of what you are buying is not asking too much, it's the minimal requirement.

      If we really start punishing this behavior there are some other issues that should be handled aswell:
      - people accidently listing cards for gold instead of plat
      - people accidently listing aa cards for their normal art value
      - people buying all copys of a rare/legendary and enlisting them for x times the value

      I don't see that happening.

      That being said I am really looking forward to those AH changes, seems many of those problems will be a thing of the past soon!
    • Winds wrote:

      Not that different, both involve one careless person (buyer who did not read properly/seller who did not post properly) and one person (buyer who keep refreshing AH to find deals in gold that should be in plat / seller who post misleading figures) who is looking to take advantage of said careless person. I just don't understand why one party should be punished but not the other.
      You don't have to constantly refresh to happen to be the one who catches the gold bargain.

      Valid point about reversing transactions impracticalities - I just responded quickly cos I don't mind if it happens but the issues aren't really insurmountable if they actually wanted to.
    • Insanctus wrote:

      - people buying all copys of a rare/legendary and enlisting them for x times the value
      I've actually done this one. What would you expect me to do if I go to AH to sell something and find a bunch of them listed at what I consider (know to be) a very low price? I can't really expect to sell mine for a decent price in that case but I can make a profit by buying them up and listing at the price I want even if I only sell one or two (which is the sort of rate most cards sell in 48 hours).

      While it's certainly true that people have also bought up a card at normal prices and relisted at gouging prices this isn't always the case and there's always going to be room for argument -I've also made 'bargain' buys that turned out to be not-so-bargain: being wrong isn't bad faith and speculation should not be automatically punishable (except by losses when you're wrong)

      The 111s on a mass scale clearly are bad faith however (indeed the proportion of non-dodgy buyouts ending in 1 is probably very close to 0) ...though there is a rather curious equipment seller who lists everything at 30/311 regardless of whether it's worth 10p or 350p and is therefore clearly heavily motivated by speed of listing but also seems happy to take advantage of possible mistakes.
    • AceBladewing wrote:

      Colin wrote:

      You can choose to be upset about the past. :( Or look forward to a world in which it's immeasurably better. :)
      The thing is, we have no way of proving it will be better in the future aside from someone promising it will be. It's naive to trust someone on that.

      Cory said on stream that they have a big rework of the AH and collection manager in the making and will deliver it soon™ so I'd say it's at least reasonable to assume things will get better.
    • They've made a lot of promises they've failed to deliver on, so I think it's reasonable to not blindly believe everything promised and wait until it arrives to give praise until it's shown to be good.

      For one example: how about those awesome double backs tacking individual card stats that were promised?