A Feasible Way To Start Rebuilding Hex

    • Not catering to casuals and making proper kitchen table gameplay is the single dumbest thing HexEnt did, out of all the MANY mistakes they made. That, singlehandedly, might have been enough to save the game. How many people over the years have BEGGED them for a way to play casually with friends? How many of those people would have literally thrown money at HexEnt to build up a collection to play those casual modes? It boggles the mind that they never realized this, even after having it screamed in their faces a thousand times.

      How many times has the market proven that you make more money appealing to casuals and letting them express themselves with paid cosmetics than by building your game purely for the hardcore competitive players? That's always going to be a niche group... but by catering to casuals and securing their buy-in, you ensure the hardcore players have a game to come to and also invest in. Instead of broadening their reach and appealing to the masses, Hex inexplicably decided to double down on the 1% of players who are only there for the high cash prize tournaments, and left everyone else to go fuck themselves.

      --ossuary

      "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none."
      - Shakespeare, All's Well That Ends Well
    • I have said it many times before. This never was casuals against competetives.
      I advocated for ffa formats for years. Having wild west formats and having them challengable at any points would not have hurt the competetive scene. The competeteive scene actualy needs a strong casual scene cause otherwise the game is not sustainable (and hex is proof of that).
    • You're absolutely right. It's not versus. Both are required. The problem is, HexEnt chose just the competitives, and told the casuals to go talk a walk. Well... they did. And here we are. They should have had kitchen table support in the game years ago, while they were also trying to build up the competitive scene. But they didn't. They did LITERALLY nothing for the casuals beyond having PVE exist at all. And that's still not casual multiplayer, it's just casual single player. The people who want to play with their friends without an entry fee, are just fucked.

      That was the mistake. That was the death knell. It's just that not everyone realized it, and it took a few years to all play out. But that was the turning point, and it's been an inexorable decline since then.
      --ossuary

      "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none."
      - Shakespeare, All's Well That Ends Well
    • The game was not designed for casual play anyway. Very cumbersome system means mobile PvP would fail. PvE might work...But they never finished delivery. Took the money for PvE, then use it for PvP. The kickstarter process gave unscrupulous developers too much leeway to go rogue with little repercussions
      "Winning with terrormill is not fun? Try losing with it"
    • Arkansaw wrote:

      Took the money for PvE, then use it for PvP. The kickstarter process gave unscrupulous developers too much leeway to go rogue with little repercussions
      I was an early Founder for Fortnite and they essentially did the same thing; they took the paid early access money for a game designed to be free to play, then brought development to a near-halt while they built out a pvp mode (battle royale). There were a LOT of complaints when battle royale was announced, and it's understandable why, but it was a win for everyone in the end as the game took over the world.

      Differences in genre markets aside, the thing I most take note of when comparing the Hex decision to Fortnite is that Hex took broad market money and invested it in a niche while Fortnite took niche market money and invested it in something with broad appeal. Both are gambles, but one makes a whole lot more sense than the other.

      For what it's worth, it wasn't always that everyone was chanting "PvE! PvE!" In the early days, there was a TON of support for Hex playing to the competitive crowd. I distinctly recall a lot of discussion around streamlining priority to make the game more esports friendly, and there weren't many people calling for a pve focus then.
      Not saying I agree with how things played out, just offering my perspective. I was a pve backer who slowly/hesitantly converted to a player of both modes, so maybe I'm not unbiased.
    • Ossuary wrote:

      Not catering to casuals and making proper kitchen table gameplay is the single dumbest thing HexEnt did, out of all the MANY mistakes they made. That, singlehandedly, might have been enough to save the game. How many people over the years have BEGGED them for a way to play casually with friends? How many of those people would have literally thrown money at HexEnt to build up a collection to play those casual modes? It boggles the mind that they never realized this, even after having it screamed in their faces a thousand times.

      How many times has the market proven that you make more money appealing to casuals and letting them express themselves with paid cosmetics than by building your game purely for the hardcore competitive players? That's always going to be a niche group... but by catering to casuals and securing their buy-in, you ensure the hardcore players have a game to come to and also invest in. Instead of broadening their reach and appealing to the masses, Hex inexplicably decided to double down on the 1% of players who are only there for the high cash prize tournaments, and left everyone else to go fuck themselves.


      So much of this. Hex got so caught up in the 1% streamers/hardcore/white knighters that they thought this represented what everyone wanted, which of course is just about the opposite.
    • Ossuary wrote:

      You're absolutely right. It's not versus. Both are required. The problem is, HexEnt chose just the competitives, and told the casuals to go talk a walk. Well... they did. And here we are. They should have had kitchen table support in the game years ago, while they were also trying to build up the competitive scene. But they didn't. They did LITERALLY nothing for the casuals beyond having PVE exist at all. And that's still not casual multiplayer, it's just casual single player. The people who want to play with their friends without an entry fee, are just fucked.

      That was the mistake. That was the death knell. It's just that not everyone realized it, and it took a few years to all play out. But that was the turning point, and it's been an inexorable decline since then.
      To be honest, they did fuck all to build a competitive scene. FiveShards basically carried the competitive scene for the first few sets until Bash and Clash came out. If not for FiveShards' effort, the game would be dead competitively long ago. And to be honest again, every third party sites did more work and contribution to the game than the dev team aside from making contents -- mostly because third party can't make contents and not because the dev is incredibly good in making them. All the third party sites did more to making sure people stick around and have a wonderful time than what's available in the game itself. No guild system, no multiplayer plays, no casual game modes until recently.
    • As a PvE player i did not follow closely, but from what i recall, the competitive part of the game was as shoddy as any other part. There were juicy cash prizes, but the issues important for competitive players such as fast fixing of bugs or support during tournaments weren't handled any better then the rest of the game.

      In hindsight, i am glad HxE did not focus on the PvE. They would set a precedent that PvE TCGs are unviable. Nothing is viable with their development cycle: Dream, dream until the time is running out, produce a rushed version, leave it to rot.