How far is AZ3 coming?

    • Whether or not Hex "could have" been successful as a total conversion to a CCG is not really up for debate. It's not relevant. That is not the game the developers wanted to make, so whether or not it could have been successful doesn't really even enter into the discussion. So any suggestions that push it along that path are EVEN less likely to be considered than actual good suggestions they get now ( so, I guess, negative percent chance? :P )... so, you know... feel free to talk about that, but know that you're wasting your time even more than we all already are as it is. ;)

      Hex will never be a CCG. It'll either find a way to live on as a TCG, or it'll die. The developers (Cory in particular) are not interested in making a CCG. The whole point is to be a digital TCG.
      --ossuary

      "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none."
      - Shakespeare, All's Well That Ends Well
    • Ossuary wrote:

      Whether or not Hex "could have" been successful as a total conversion to a CCG is not really up for debate. It's not relevant. That is not the game the developers wanted to make, so whether or not it could have been successful doesn't really even enter into the discussion. So any suggestions that push it along that path are EVEN less likely to be considered than actual good suggestions they get now ( so, I guess, negative percent chance? :P )... so, you know... feel free to talk about that, but know that you're wasting your time even more than we all already are as it is. ;)

      Hex will never be a CCG. It'll either find a way to live on as a TCG, or it'll die. The developers (Cory in particular) are not interested in making a CCG. The whole point is to be a digital TCG.
      Nothing stops the game from being a hybrid. Hex already has a functioning ah which makes it a tcg. What they could have is a system where you either craft up a card or buy it in the ah. It would definitely stand apart from the industry if it has some type of hybrid approach.
    • Again, "could" and "will" are two very different things.

      HexEnt COULD clean the earwax out of their damn ears and start listening to their paying customers... but they WON'T. :)
      --ossuary

      "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none."
      - Shakespeare, All's Well That Ends Well
    • Eraia wrote:

      Vroengard wrote:

      idea couldn't substitute AZ unless ATKers were allowed to use their Campaign characters, who would level and progress via this process.
      This would be a must for me as well. It's why siege and arena mean nothing to me. I simply don't CARE about them because I don't have a character to associate with them.
      Plus, what I enjoy most about PvE in this game is deck archetypes, and PvP champs have almost -no support- for any of that. And most hardline archetype builds aren't strong enough for Siege or FRA.
    • What people tend to forget is that sieges is part of the AZ and would normally be imported in AZ3 togheter with keeps etc.
      At that point you would be able to use your character (or atleast mercs) to attack and use mercs to defend.
      Also if i remember correctly you could buy upgrades for your siege defense in your fortresses.
      It was never meant to be a stand alone.
      Also to be honest this 2 months delay on waiting for art for set 10 could be great for PvE as they have extra time to spend on PvE extention and monetization.
    • I don't really understand why they abandoned adventure zones completely. It seemed like AZ was exactly what they envisioned and presented in the kickstarter. People seemed to like the mercenaries and the classes and the leveling aspect of them, also seemed like what they intended to do in the kickstarter.

      The only real complaints I ever heard were about specific encounters (which could be tweaked) and how boring they got after a while. Releasing a new content regularly and finishing the rest of the classes probably would have gone a long way to fix that problem as well.

      Anyway, more talk of missed opportunities will probably go on forever!
    • I'm not sure if they abandoned the idea of AZs or if AZ3 is just taking forever. However, the problem with AZs is that they don't really generate income*. Sure, PVE players buy plat to complete their PVE decks, but there is no recurring revenue stream. Once you've cleared the content a few times, you are unlikely to spend money to build a deck just to see if you can clear it on your Nth character. And the real problem is, adding a new AZ and/or a few new classes only kicks that can down the road a bit longer; unless they can create content that is actually very challenging and rewarding, or create procedurally generated content, players will burn through it very quickly and then we're back where we are now. The sad state of Hex's AI further limits this, as "challenging" has to mean "cheating" because the AI can't handle complex decks and we have a lot of very powerful options available to us as players in PVE (exacerbated by mercenaries).

      *That doesn't mean that they cannot be monetized; players have suggested many things over the years that they would be willing to spend platinum on in PVE and HXE has never implemented any of them. Suggestions include AA champions, EA/AA token cards (pets, talent-added cards, etc.), additional character slots, actual PVE content (dungeons, AZs), and so on. I'm not sure why HXE has never gone this route, it's certainly been suggested many times over the years.
    • There are many paths PVE could take. It can serve several masters at once if implemented with durable elegance.

      PvE IMO is the solo play trajectory up to the point of raids. This is where you present challenges, puzzels,and story to your players to get them fully on board with your mechanics and teach them ways to deal various strategies. You make it hard as you get closer to a raid and add new zones when you bring on new tech.

      Raids are your high tuned collection driving challenges which should force the execution of high level concepts as well as be build challenges.

      High level it sounds simple but you need to have a solid content pipeline to stream line creation of new zone/dungeon content.

      Then you monetize your pvp cosmetics and make sure your pvp decks always contain a solution card to the hard dungeon or raid from pve.

      Use crafting to close the item life cycle with some useful consumables and you should have a thriving ecosystem.

      Man dreams are nice right?
    • Rendakor wrote:

      I'm not sure if they abandoned the idea of AZs or if AZ3 is just taking forever. However, the problem with AZs is that they don't really generate income*. Sure, PVE players buy plat to complete their PVE decks, but there is no recurring revenue stream. Once you've cleared the content a few times, you are unlikely to spend money to build a deck just to see if you can clear it on your Nth character. And the real problem is, adding a new AZ and/or a few new classes only kicks that can down the road a bit longer; unless they can create content that is actually very challenging and rewarding, or create procedurally generated content, players will burn through it very quickly and then we're back where we are now. The sad state of Hex's AI further limits this, as "challenging" has to mean "cheating" because the AI can't handle complex decks and we have a lot of very powerful options available to us as players in PVE (exacerbated by mercenaries).

      *That doesn't mean that they cannot be monetized; players have suggested many things over the years that they would be willing to spend platinum on in PVE and HXE has never implemented any of them. Suggestions include AA champions, EA/AA token cards (pets, talent-added cards, etc.), additional character slots, actual PVE content (dungeons, AZs), and so on. I'm not sure why HXE has never gone this route, it's certainly been suggested many times over the years.
      PVE monetization from AZ:

      1. Convert people into PVP. Not all PVE players are pure PVE players, some are hybrid.
      2. There are (or used to have?) expensive PVE cards that hardcore PVE players will have to put in a decent amount of platinum to get. Sure, no one must have $200 deck to play PVE, but the possibility to have a $200 PVE deck out there means someone might pay for it.
      3. With a better lore in campaign or the overall game, maybe more people would have engaged in lore discussion. You know, like MtG and then maybe you have artsy people spending time on drawing, fanfiction and what-have-you. Those can be potential source of advertisement if they are shared on the web. Advertisment brings in more players. Engaging story increase player discussion and interest in the game. Never underestimate the power of the artists and lore hounds and their passive abilities.

      Maybe more that I can't think of right now. But really, having engaging and challenging content will work great. The garbage AI is once again proving that having a not-good-enough programming team leads to the downfall of this game.
    • One easy step to successfully TRY and convert PvE players to PvP: Set up a Gold:Platinum exchange post. Fight Night already costs Gold. In Siege, we've seen the rate beween Gold:Siege sack and Platinum:Siege sack. BankerBot came into being like 4 years in the game's life. If PvE players had a way to occasionally play PvP, they might've warmed up to the idea more. 1 ticket for a Limited gauntlet once per 10 account levels is not enough. Expecting people to figure out how to trade Gold for Platinum via trade chat, forum and using mail and COD is, and it pains me greatly to say, overestimating them.
    • -Doing gold for plat and visa versa on AH would benefit hex and players as there would be a more stable way to trade and hex always claims a part of the value on AH.
      -Unlockable raids and dungeons for plat would be great to, with being able to exchange plat for gold etc on AH people can save for it for free.
      They promised a bunch off dungeons and raids for free but that doesnt mean they cant add additional dungeon/raids inbetween that costs plat.
      -Crafting unique cards or even so called 1 use items for in the campaign would be great to stop overflow of cetain cards.
      -Daily's would help convert people, give everyone 1 daily (or weekly) for pvp and pve each time so they can decide which and even do them both once they get better. (pvp daily could be things like play a certain themed deck or with a certain hero in ranked but please exclude the tournaments since they cost money)
      -If they put in sort of mirror worlds that you can unlock during PvE than players could make there own campaign like worlds there? maybe even get rewarded as player if an employee tried it and found it challenging (hex worthy). Option to upload a picture as map??????

      There is so much but sadly they are also limited by there money
      i do hope that they can turn hex around and make it the best tcg out there (even better than any CCG)
    • Rendakor wrote:

      HXE shouldn't offer it directly (or at least, not pay out plat for gold, I suppose them paying out gold for plat would be fine) but they could go further to support it.
      Yeah, well, that's a huge bump though. There's only a minority that needs/has Gold and Platinum. PvP players care not for PvE. Have you never wondered why Gold strength against platinum has been on an upward trend since forever, despite the fact that HXE offers more platinum via ingame rewards than before?

      PvE players cannot play PvP without Platinum. And even their PvE experience is limited because chests come from packs which are either purchased for platinum or earned by playing PvP (which, in turn, requires platinum). They need to spin chests because there're too many PvE-exclusive items inside (equipment, PvE cards AND mercenaries). And they need Gold to exchange for platinum for EVERYTHING ELSE.
      PvP players who have a lot of platinum are usually the ones that are more competitive-oriented (hence why they spend more money buying platinum or winnign so many competitions that they earn platinum from the system). They usually look down on PvE. Why would they want Gold when the only use it's got is to spin chests.

      Platinum-have-ers cannot support the PvE players' need for platinum. We've been in the unfortunate situation where PvE players actually had to spend more for less, because PvE is worse EV than PvP (their buying platinum, which was pretty much mandatory, added less value to their collection; also, PvE rewards are X times less valuable than PvP rewards). That's also why PvE didn't catch up enough, because unless you paid regularly, you were "squeezed" in terms of content and could not enjoy the game.

      Near the end, HXE was almost straight up selling siege sacks for gold and platinum (you get x siege sacks when you put up a keep depending on the initial hoard). It already has a rate in mind. If you don't want straight-up Gold>Platinum exchange, then translate all 0-pack Limited entry fees to Gold with the aforementioned rate and sell Limited format tickets for Gold. There's a player incentive to be hybrid.

      Frederik wrote:

      i do hope that they can turn hex around and make it the best tcg out there
      They can't turn it around themselves. Best hope is to find someone to turn it around for them. That's what you (we) should be praying for.
    • Utremeld wrote:

      If Hex is as player friendly as they pretend to be then when it goes under they'll offer up assets or ways for private servers to be made since we Kick-started it, paid for it, etc.

      But since it's always been lip service I'm sure it'll all just conclude.
      I brought up this exact discussion back in 2013. If the game is really dying (I wouldn't know since I lost faith earlier this year and stopped paying attention), then it's certainly worth asking vigorously for. There are some great (if small) communities out there that keep "dead" games alive, and Hex is probably good enough to support such a user-driven community, especially if HexEnt were willing to convert the code base to open source (unlikely?).

      Ossuary wrote:

      A robust PVE experience is what made Hex: The Pitch different from (and better than) Every Other Card Game: The PVP Slog. The only reason PVP makes Hex more money than PVE is because 1) they don't know how to monetize PVE properly, 2) they didn't listen to any of us when we TOLD them how to monetize PVE, and 3) they can't actually calculate how much of the money they DO make is from people who don't give a flying fuck about PVP tournaments.

      The problem is execution (as usual), not conceptualization. If this game had been made in a timely fashion, marketed properly, supported properly, and the video game portion had been designed by actual video game developers (i.e. with proper modern design and interface) as opposed to just card game designers who hired a bunch of programmers to execute their ideas, it should have easily reached a million players by now. Half measures and half-assed implementation of pretty much every step along the path have led us to here, where the only real source of revenue is a continually dwindling interest in their hardcore PVP gameplay, and not even enough money to deliver on that anymore.

      Not releasing set 10 on time is doomsday not because the game needs more PVP, but because HexEnt has completely failed to deliver on their promise of a unique and compelling PVE experience. They only ever really gave us one side of the equation, and the lack of good interface design, good repeatable dynamic PVE experiences, modern group gameplay support, casual gameplay opportunities, and proper marketing support have brought us to the brink. The "PVP is everything" model is not sustainable, full stop. It's probably too late for them to shift course and correct all the many flaws they've left in their wake, but delivering more of the same (slower than ever before) is unlikely to do anything more than delay the inevitable.

      They need to adapt, if that's something they're even capable of. Since they're not even willing or (apparently) able to listen to anyone, as they are firmly locked inside their little echo chamber, we're pretty much doomed to a slow and lingering death.

      Happy five years, Hex! :(
      Ah well, it was fun for a while, at least. So sad that my #1 reason for backing never materialized. I really wanted multiplayer PvE in a pseudo-MTG shell; it's literally the reason I backed Hex in 2013. Without the promise of raids, I'd never have given a cent to this game.

      Seeing this thread, I'm very glad I liquidated most of my account over the last year. In the end, I suppose I can take solace in the fact that I more than doubled my initial "investment". Not that it was ever my intent to make money on this. I really wanted to dump money into this as my Forever Game, playing raids every weekend and milking my Pro Player bonus during the weeknights. Sadly, it was not to be.
    • Anyone that wnats to see how a game rebrands itself by making major changes should take a look at Faeria. They just released an update that changes the core of the game but also simplifies somes features (and currency) they realized that like Hex, their old model was not sustainable and thus made a huge change. I hope and whish Hex does something similar (as in changes lots of things)

      The game was a CCG and they transformed it to a pay to play where you pay to gain access to the game. You get the cards by playing the game and gaining boosters (that are like the siege loot, you cant get more than 4). Also you cant buy boosters with money, just by playing. You can spend money in drafts (called pandora's) and in cosmetics (which they just added 70 of them )

      when things don't work out, you need to invest and change everything.

      they also plan to release new contents every month, 20 - 40 cards. which you will pay 13$ to get access.

      I'M not saying hex should do that, I'M just pointing how management has turned things around. (maybe for the worst, but at least they try)