I'm about done with Siege until Hex makes some AI improvements

    • I'm about done with Siege until Hex makes some AI improvements

      Title says it all really, but there are two real reasons I'm done with Siege.

      Firstly, Siege is basically a cesspool right now of degenerate slot machine decks where almost everyone is running slight variations on the same decks, and these decks are just RNG machines where the defender is hoping the AI gets lucky in one of the three match ups and "goes off" with nothing the opponent can do. The AI only has to get lucky once to stop the attacker, and that's what these decks bank on. We're playing against the same stuff, over and over if feels like, and the RNG of the match ups is so obvious because sometimes you roll the deck, and sometimes the exact same deck just goes off and you really never had a chance. It's getting really old, but unfortunately HXE added monetary rewards to this mode, so everyone is encouraged to run these high variance, "only need to get lucky once" decks with very little innovation. Some people try, I'm looking at you @Blackwood, but not enough people, because there's a monetary cost/reward attached.

      Secondly, and this is what really drove me to post here, I'm tired of the AI giving away my money. It's absurd to me that sometimes it plays the cards correctly, and other times it just sits on them and doesn't play anything. Case in point, @Edswor just took down my keep, and in the first game vs my Angus deck the AI just REFUSED to win, although it could have easily done so. At the end of turn three it had three open resources and Edwor was at 5 HP, and it passed the turn...with THREE 1 cost Lazghar's Vengeance in it's hand. And Edswor had troops on the board to kill with them, so there is literally no reason to not play them. None. Here's the pics:





      Now, there is just no excuse whatsoever to not play all three of these out. Even if the AI doesn't understand that LV hits the face, Edswor still has a full board of troops that would die to this. And there was no reason to hold resources open, because it had no quick actions in it's hand. There is LITERALLY no reason to not play them other than AI stupidity.

      They haven't released an AI hotfix in quite sometime, despite the constant complaints people are giving regarding horrid misplays. The Devs either don't care, or are stretched too thin to do anything about it. Either way, I'm one step closer to the edge on this game.

      HXE, if you're going to add a real money cost/reward structure to Siege, IMPROVE THE DAMN AI.

      I'm might tough this out a little longer, but one more BS incident like the one in the pics and I'm done wasting money.
    • I was a little worked up when I posted that because I had just watched the replay so it was very fresh and I'm tired of the AI giving away my money, but I apologize for coming off a bit aggressive

      That being said, they really need to make some adjustments very soon to address some of these glaring issues that are just unforgivable, specifically not playing cards when it can, and teaching it basic combat math so it knows when and how to block.
    • I have noticed also that AI doesn't know how Allegiance works nor the benefit of some equips. Also it doesn't understand how shards should be played nor how some effects of cards diminish it's own l
      1. AI Has 2xD thresholds. In hand, 2x Well of Purpose, 1x Remnant of Purpose. I think you all get what AI chose to play...

      2. AI has already 2XS&D thresholds, in hand 1x Protectorate Defender, 2x Carloth Cobblestone, 1x Remnant of Purpose. It played Remnant, instead of gaining a Ruby threshold so it could activate Defender's equip and remove a small opposing candle.

      3. AI has 3hp left. Plays Hunger of the Mountain God, uses equip, kills itself. Luckily I was the attacker.

      4. @Transience I think it was your keep. AI had lethal with unblockable Annihilix but didn't attack because it had 1hp and I had 3hp, so AI was on the defensive. When it did not attack I just couldn't believe my eyes. :thumbdown: (sorry :) )

      I know they said Siege is in a kind of beta so I guess we'll have to wait and try to explore the ways AI handles things for now.
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    • The AI isn’t the problem. The incentives to play and defend are. I’ve laid it out before. And I can’t cross link because I’ve chosen to only use forums from my phone now cause I won’t waste the time here anymore on my PC. Anyways, I do have a post detailing what’s wrong and how to fix it.

      You make people want to defend and attack when you make it about the community not about gambling. Until then, it’s just going to be bandaids on bullet wounds.
    • AxelDWater wrote:

      4. @Transience I think it was your keep. AI had lethal with unblockable Annihilix but didn't attack because it had 1hp and I had 3hp, so AI was on the defensive. When it did not attack I just couldn't believe my eyes. :thumbdown: (sorry :) )
      I don't mind. You took it after 9 wins, you were welcome to it. :thumbup:

      (It's up again, in 48 hours it should be worth it to attack it again. :D )

      In an ideal world, stuff like this will prompt Chris to make the AI better eventually.
      "Ignorant beliefs are stains upon the mind."
    • No, in an ideal world, they would have made the AI not a brain dead moron before charging people money to access the mode. Since it's too late for that, the LEAST they could do is either stop shaking people down, or make the AI not shitty anymore. You have a very strange idea of the word "ideal." :P
      --ossuary

      "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none."
      - Shakespeare, All's Well That Ends Well
    • Did you know that AI's are actually computers and thus brain dead? You can't expect it to do everything the way a human would. That's not how this works. In my opinion this AI is already very good. There are obviously many improvements possible but it can certainly play the game which is already a work of large complexity.

      Also history shows that they do fix stuff to make it better, like Chronic Madness for instance.
      "Ignorant beliefs are stains upon the mind."
    • Transience wrote:

      Did you know that AI's are actually computers and thus brain dead? You can't expect it to do everything the way a human would. That's not how this works. In my opinion this AI is already very good. There are obviously many improvements possible but it can certainly play the game which is already a work of large complexity.

      Also history shows that they do fix stuff to make it better, like Chronic Madness for instance.
      What are you comparing the AI to? This?

      Gamer. Streamer. Photographer. Writer. Anime Lover. Possessor of Stuffed Animals.

      Also... I'm terrible at this game.
    • Transience wrote:

      Did you know that AI's are actually computers and thus brain dead? You can't expect it to do everything the way a human would. That's not how this works. In my opinion this AI is already very good. There are obviously many improvements possible but it can certainly play the game which is already a work of large complexity.

      Also history shows that they do fix stuff to make it better, like Chronic Madness for instance.
      This is what your arguments are reduced to? Strawmanning me to suggest I'm so stupid, I think computers have human brains? How very KIND of you to stoop down to my level and EDUCATE me about how computers work. Jesus. You're going to have to try a lot harder if you're going to keep this white knight act up. In my opinion, your opinion on the quality of the AI is based on a fundamental lack of understanding as to what AI is capable of. :)

      For the record, I worked with machine learning algorithms for 5 years. It's a particular area of interest for me, that I've spent a lot of time thinking about and researching in my personal life as well. I know how computers can be taught and how they can learn on their own. That is not what Hex does (not even close). It's a series of simple algorithmic analysis routines - barely a step or two better than thousands of lines of if-then statements. Frankly, although it would obviously take more time to build it this way, at this point I'm starting to think the AI would actually be more effective if it WERE just a bunch of if-then statements. Or more accurately, if they left the base routines as is but gave us access to a simple valuing and scenario response interface (think Final Fantasy 12 companion controls). This would allow us to TELL the AI what it was supposed to be keeping alive, what it was supposed to cast in a particular order, etc... since it's clearly too rudimentary to even play basic cards in a logical order, despite all the so-called improvements that have been made to date.

      The AI got undeniably worse after the "upgrades" that were last made to it (nearly 2 months ago now). In trying to make it analyze its potential moves better, what it actually ends up doing is misplaying shards, screwing up its own curve-out, and still mis-valuing the results of its plays. In typical HexEnt fashion, every attempt to make things better is 1 step forward, 3 steps back. For every "improvement" they've made to the AI's behavior, you can usually find 2-4 new things it's doing that are worse than it was before they touched it. I found obvious oversights in the new AI behavior in just 5 minutes of playing after the patch, yet those changes went through the full company's testing and QA process before going live. Absolutely ridiculous.

      All that aside, you still never addressed the fact that they're charging money for this mode that runs on bad AI, and refuse to either make further improvements, or disable the pay to play nature of it until the AI is in a better (i.e. not shit) place. So, you know, we can talk all day about whether or not the AI could be called "good" by any stretch of the imagination - I'll happily school you on that any time you like. But there continues to be no defense for the scummy and predatory way HexEnt is charging people money for the pleasure of having a garbage computer run their decks into the ground for them. And the fact that you chose to sidestep that whole issue tells me you know it too, but don't want to admit it.
      --ossuary

      "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none."
      - Shakespeare, All's Well That Ends Well
    • I said the AI is good as a counter to your 'brain dead moron' statement. Based on what it can do and based on the size of the resources that can be allocated to it that is my opinion. If you are as knowledgeable about the subject as you say you are you would not call it a 'brain dead moron'. That simply makes no sense. 'brain dead moron' suggests that it doesn't work all, at least to me. Which is not the case. It's just lacking refined ways of strategy and it makes a large number of unnecessary mistakes. But it can be improved upon and as I said; in an ideal world Chris reads these threads and does just that; improve it. Hopefully it will eventually rise to a level that you'd be content with. For me, having what it is today and expecting it will become better in the future is already fine.

      As for your problem with them asking money for it; I wasn't aware you were expecting me to address that. What made you think I wanted to do that?

      Anyway, I'd suggest not to play this mode if you don't like that. Seems simple to me. You're not forced you know. I personally don't care much for any system with entree fee and value prices either. I'd rather just spent to get cards I want and get some cosmetic rewards for winning. But I understand why most modes have an entree fee. I'm sure you feel you have good reasons for calling that 'scummy and predatory' but frankly: I don't care.

      Btw; you remind me of drummers. I see a lot of gigs and know a fair number of drummers and what a lot of them have in common is the fact that they have trouble enjoying a concert because they focus on the drummer on stage and as you may or may not know; live drumming is particularly difficult. They hear every fucked up hit and bad timing and focus on the things that they know are bad and then call the entire show mediocre or bad because it's their point of reference. People who are not drummers will usually not care and just enjoy what they hear.
      "Ignorant beliefs are stains upon the mind."
    • Transience wrote:

      Btw; you remind me of drummers. I see a lot of gigs and know a fair number of drummers and what a lot of them have in common is the fact that they have trouble enjoying a concert because they focus on the drummer on stage and as you may or may not know; live drumming is particularly difficult. They hear every fucked up hit and bad timing and focus on the things that they know are bad and then call the entire show mediocre or bad because it's their point of reference. People who are not drummers will usually not care and just enjoy what they hear.
      Except in this case we can replace 'drummer' with 'people who have played a computer game before' and 'people who are not drummers' with 'Transience'... because you're just about the only person who doesn't think the AI is complete and total garbage in Hex.

      It doesn't take an AI coder to recognize that this AI is just not functional.
      Gamer. Streamer. Photographer. Writer. Anime Lover. Possessor of Stuffed Animals.

      Also... I'm terrible at this game.
    • I cant imagine too many people who would call siege a competitve mode that should be taken seriously. The ai just isnt up to snuff and it seems like a very bad gambling mode. However a 1,000 gold siege is fine for that mode imo.

      IMO the ire and hatred that siege gets is that it looks like a attempt to say hey look we are added pve content when it really is just bad pvp.
    • Pandaemonium wrote:

      I cant imagine too many people who would call siege a competitve mode that should be taken seriously. The ai just isnt up to snuff and it seems like a very bad gambling mode. However a 1,000 gold siege is fine for that mode imo.

      IMO the ire and hatred that siege gets is that it looks like a attempt to say hey look we are added pve content when it really is just bad pvp.
      It's all of those reasons. It also IS competitive, because even some money is still money. And there are prizes on the line that you can only get this way, they are unavailable by any other method. If you want the cosmetics OR the exclusive PVE items and mercs, you have no choice but to pay the fee and put in the time.

      Every single possible way you analyze it, it's poorly designed, poorly implemented, and poorly executed. A very large portion of the community is pissed about it, and HexEnt apparently doesn't care, which makes it all even worse. AND they refuse to talk about it, which again, makes it even worse. Start to finish, it's a disaster, and their continued silence / ignorance is deafening.
      --ossuary

      "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none."
      - Shakespeare, All's Well That Ends Well
    • The one i hate the most is when my siege has the opponent down to 5 health, has 8 troops on board with a total of 40+ attack, opponent is playing diamond, has 5 resources up and my dummy AI siege decides to go all in and get wiped to sentence. That has to be a couple of lines of code fix right? If opponent is playing diamond and has 5 resources up, then attack with 1-2 troops not the whole dang board...lol