Friday Update - Zak Attack

    • While I'm excited about immortal gauntlets, its a shame that the free queue to play immortal is gone. My silly convoluted "combo" decks are never gonna thrive in a competitive environment and I'd feel bad challenging specific people due to all the clicking they'd have to sit through if I happen to go off.

      New merry melee is super sweet btw! Dreadlings and Evolved Tactics have been my MVPs so far.
    • Ossuary wrote:

      Vroengard wrote:

      I love the fact that Immortal will be a thing again.

      @Dinotropia and everyone reading this thread in general: Can you please explain why an Immortal Gauntlet that rewards packs rewards only Standard packs? I'm sure part of it is in order to further reduce cost of Standard, but it feels anti-thematic. At some point (soon?) we're gonna have "Immortal is expensive" and "I can't find old cards in order to play" threads.
      This is how constructed gauntlets always work. You pay money to use your own cards to potentially generate free / severely discounted current set packs. You either open them yourself or sell them to other players, to stimulate the economy. That's totally what I expected.
      They did add some immortal AAs to juice it up a little and make it more thematic, which works for me (though of course due to the volume of how many will be generated, they won't actually be WORTH much, but it's still nice to see them in there). I honestly, seriously, have zero problems with how they are implementing this (which is rare lately!). A total win for HexEnt on this one, as far as I'm concerned. A slam dunk.
      That doesn't really answer me. I picked a random card, Archmage Wrenlocke. 11$ in the AH, last month. Close to how much Eternal Seeker goes for. Will we have a swapping of which format is the expensive one now, with Immortal being too expensive for most and Standard being relatively ok?

      And as I type that, I realize that that's how most card games that rotate sets are. So this is for the best. HOWEVER, and this is very important, in the case of Hex, we've had many many old players leave the game / lose their accounts etc. Hex, in contrast to other games, will have an even smaller amount of players than those to play these Immortal games. Can the format survive with a tight amount of Immortal cards available?

      Or I might be overthinking this. I would just like to know that we've thought this through carefully. If the playerbase is ~3,000 and only 5% is able to play Immortal, that means the format will have to survive on 150 people playing between themselves.
    • It's an interesting question, and only time will tell for sure. However, something to remember is that Hex doesn't have the Power Nine problem that MtG did back in the day. Weird combo stuff aside, for the most part there are even stronger cards in Standard than we have access to in Immortal (with a few notable exceptions of badly designed overpowered cards like Rune Ear Hierophant). So even newer players can be REASONABLY competitive without even using immortal cards, or just splashing a couple of specific immortal cards into an already powerful standard deck.

      If more people are playing, the types of decks we'll see in that queue will also be more diverse, and hopefully that will make more decks at different base power levels viable to get at least 3 wins with (the point at which you're getting packs for cheaper than the entry cost). You only lose money at 0-2 wins vs. just using the store. And with the bi-monthly immortal tournament offered for free to anyone who has the tickets, that's extra value you can pile on to encourage people to play (and to potentially recoup some sunk costs if they don't do too well, or need to buy some specific cards to compete).

      Ultimately, more participation overall should be a positive. Most of the reason cards on the AH are expensive is because of lack of demand, not lack of supply (even cards that are finite in supply like immortal cards). They're expensive because nobody bothers to list them, so the few who do, charge a huge premium (or gouge, if you prefer). If the cards are actually in demand, more people will take the time to try to sell their existing copies, and the price should come down at least some, even with the added demand / desirability. Hopefully! :)
      --ossuary

      "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none."
      - Shakespeare, All's Well That Ends Well
    • @Ossuary It is arguably a slam dunk if you completely disregard the "too many bucket"-problem. If you do not then there were alternatives for doing this that dont create that problem. Personaly I would have preferred those (especialy with the current situation).

      I laid out my perspective in more detail here: HexEnt does listen to the community - here's the evidence!
    • Vroengard wrote:

      Ossuary wrote:

      Vroengard wrote:

      I love the fact that Immortal will be a thing again.

      @Dinotropia and everyone reading this thread in general: Can you please explain why an Immortal Gauntlet that rewards packs rewards only Standard packs? I'm sure part of it is in order to further reduce cost of Standard, but it feels anti-thematic. At some point (soon?) we're gonna have "Immortal is expensive" and "I can't find old cards in order to play" threads.
      This is how constructed gauntlets always work. You pay money to use your own cards to potentially generate free / severely discounted current set packs. You either open them yourself or sell them to other players, to stimulate the economy. That's totally what I expected.They did add some immortal AAs to juice it up a little and make it more thematic, which works for me (though of course due to the volume of how many will be generated, they won't actually be WORTH much, but it's still nice to see them in there). I honestly, seriously, have zero problems with how they are implementing this (which is rare lately!). A total win for HexEnt on this one, as far as I'm concerned. A slam dunk.
      That doesn't really answer me. I picked a random card, Archmage Wrenlocke. 11$ in the AH, last month. Close to how much Eternal Seeker goes for. Will we have a swapping of which format is the expensive one now, with Immortal being too expensive for most and Standard being relatively ok?
      And as I type that, I realize that that's how most card games that rotate sets are. So this is for the best. HOWEVER, and this is very important, in the case of Hex, we've had many many old players leave the game / lose their accounts etc. Hex, in contrast to other games, will have an even smaller amount of players than those to play these Immortal games. Can the format survive with a tight amount of Immortal cards available?

      Or I might be overthinking this. I would just like to know that we've thought this through carefully. If the playerbase is ~3,000 and only 5% is able to play Immortal, that means the format will have to survive on 150 people playing between themselves.
      If you're at all seriously concerned about this go buy cards now. They are basically worthless.

      Five copies of Wrenlocke sold in the last month (one of them for 300 plat). 22 copies went unsold just last week, meaning the card is massively overpriced.
      hexprice.com/item/Shards%20of%20Fate/Archmage%20Wrenlocke

      There may be an availability issue some day, but Hex has already shown some willingness to address that with flashback drafts / legacy packs created in tournaments.
    • A lot of immortal cards only sell once or twice a week, sometimes once a month. This is a prime situation for people to list cards worth 100p for 1100p and maybe they hit the lottery, but that's not how much those cards are worth. It's just not worth most peoples time to list immortal cards due to their true value and frequency in which they are bought from the auction house.
    • Portensio wrote:

      Ill bet 20$ that we will get a thread very soon with the mention

      Too much current packs into the system makes immortal queue packs worthless


      They have increased the number of current packs by a good quantity.

      The intro of the new model of bash and clash have made the packs lose value and immortal giving current packs will have an additional impact.

      Let’s not forget the cosmic coins. People are accumulating for the board right now, but will go for packs eventually

      So who will it be :)
      you won't actually be able to sell the packs when nobody is playing limited

      not sure what you'll with them, but enjoy the gauntlet i guess


      it would be simpler if the entry fee used the same currency as the prizes (or vice versa), but i guess that would make too much sense. even if the EV sucked, it might be preferable to actually going through the hassle of trying to convert prize currency to entry fee currency

      i don't really envision this functioning too well as immortal support. it's more like a way to buy 3 packs for 500p
      sounds okay when a new set comes out, but that's not exactly when i want to be playing immortal
    • Just wanted to bip in to make a quick note for anyone interested--I've also added Puzzle Badge challenges to the Pappy Jasper Prize Patrol for anyone who would like to try to puzzle their way through in pursuit of boosters and other prizes!

      In the meantime, kudos to HXE for Epic Spell Warz--friends returning to Hex the past few days are raving about it and we've had some hilariously entertaining games!
    • PvE though?

      In this update:

      Gauntlet for 500 platinum - competitive.
      Gauntlet for 100 platinum - competitive.
      VIP Weekend - competitive.
      Bash for 700 platinum - competitive.
      Clash for 1500 platinum - competitive.

      In other news, absolutely nothing for me.
    • Ertzi wrote:

      PvE though?

      In this update:

      Gauntlet for 500 platinum - competitive.
      Gauntlet for 100 platinum - competitive.
      VIP Weekend - competitive.
      Bash for 700 platinum - competitive.
      Clash for 1500 platinum - competitive.

      In other news, absolutely nothing for me.
      You weren’t actually expecting any PvE news were you, lol. Look at where Hex wants you to spend your time. I learned to maintain low expectation a while ago regarding PvE.
      Coyotle are the supreme furry race. Cannon fodder need not respond.
    • NaanVilence wrote:

      Ertzi wrote:

      PvE though?

      In this update:

      Gauntlet for 500 platinum - competitive.
      Gauntlet for 100 platinum - competitive.
      VIP Weekend - competitive.
      Bash for 700 platinum - competitive.
      Clash for 1500 platinum - competitive.

      In other news, absolutely nothing for me.
      You weren’t actually expecting any PvE news were you, lol. Look at where Hex wants you to spend your time. I learned to maintain low expectation a while ago regarding PvE.
      Well other than the merry melee there is actually nothing new for pvp. All this is old stuff that is repeating itself

      Immortal gauthlet is not new. The gauthlet existed and Is no new tech
    • Biz wrote:


      you won't actually be able to sell the packs when nobody is playing limited
      not sure what you'll with them, but enjoy the gauntlet i guess

      I know it's hard to think about right now with the state of the game as it is, but having an on-demand queue that generates packs is good for limited, too. Having more packs in the system encourages players on a budget or F2P players to engage with the economy more and pick up those packs so they can play in events as well. The discount makes the queues more accessible, which leads to more volume, which benefits everyone.

      This was one of the major reasons I was concerned about how ladder was introduced in the first place (because they were removing the on-demand queue), and I voiced that concern at the time. When you remove a grindable source of cheaper-than-store packs from the economy, it's detrimental to the entire system and leads to a slowdown in traffic, as those players who are on the cusp of affordability choose to stop playing, or play less often.

      And we saw that exact activity, as I predicted. The cost of packs on the AH immediately started to spike up at the time (I don't have the exact numbers in front of me as it was quite a while ago now, but it was blatant). At one point, current set packs were selling for almost full price, because the supply and demand balance had moved so much. That came back down eventually, but that was due to other issues that were affecting the demand for packs (mostly popularity of formats, and the shrinking player base).

      What you will see if this latest incarnation of gauntlet is successful is demand for packs going up, the price for packs staying relatively low and healthy on the AH (anywhere in the 140-170 range depending on many, many factors), and the overall volume of both pack sales and limited tournament participation increasing. There are still a TON of factors at play here, and there's no telling exactly what's going to happen, but from where I'm sitting, this queue will absolutely be a net positive for the game, and may even bring some old players back. If it does really well and gets participation up across the board, it could even spur an influx of new players as more people try out limited with the faster queue times, and hopefully enjoy it and get their friends to try it out as well. We can hope! :)
      --ossuary

      "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none."
      - Shakespeare, All's Well That Ends Well
    • NicoSharp wrote:

      The only way the player base is going to fix Merry Melee to help it bring in new players to HEX, is to actively stop playing it until it is made free.
      So, if you want to be part of the solution, ignore it exists.
      They don't have a way to differentiate that from lack of interest and incentive to discontinue the mode entirely, although based on Siege lack of interaction won't stop Cory from trying to polish a turd.
    • Utremeld wrote:

      NicoSharp wrote:

      The only way the player base is going to fix Merry Melee to help it bring in new players to HEX, is to actively stop playing it until it is made free.
      So, if you want to be part of the solution, ignore it exists.
      They don't have a way to differentiate that from lack of interest and incentive to discontinue the mode entirely, although based on Siege lack of interaction won't stop Cory from trying to polish a turd.
      I totally agree with you on that Utremeld. Data will not give them all of the solutions they need. It will give them most because people will pay for things regardless of a 'social' trend.

      Some of us expect some sort of reading comprehension skills, and acknowledgement regarding the concerns a mode like this has. With reasons that have already been textually communicated.

      It would be a shame to see this go away completely, but I'll be the extremist to say we would be better off vs. allowing HXE to believe it is okay to charge for casual modes like this. Payments can be taken in other ways. New players would be interested in this. It could be a sticking point for them. It should be made casual. Plat and rewards tied to winning immediately make it competitive. Free entry would be a way I could actually suggest HEX to other people I know.
    • NaanVilence wrote:

      Ertzi wrote:

      PvE though?

      In this update:

      Gauntlet for 500 platinum - competitive.
      Gauntlet for 100 platinum - competitive.
      VIP Weekend - competitive.
      Bash for 700 platinum - competitive.
      Clash for 1500 platinum - competitive.

      In other news, absolutely nothing for me.
      You weren’t actually expecting any PvE news were you, lol. Look at where Hex wants you to spend your time. I learned to maintain low expectation a while ago regarding PvE.
      Non-existent? Because that is my expectation for PVE :( . Ever since Cory gave that interview on the general's tent, PVE has been dead. I know we got an update to FRA, but it sucked. As for siege, it is not PVE. That discussion is not relevant for this thread, though.