Mercenaries are a core part of PvE gameplay and strategy, make them available in FRA

    • Mercenaries are a core part of PvE gameplay and strategy, make them available in FRA

      I am a primary PvE player. Hex is the only TCG that offers this experience.
      A major (if not the biggest) contribution to the PvE experience are the mercenaries.

      It is great to take 3-4 decks with you in an dungeon and be able to have the right strategy at hand for difficult encounters.
      It is even more fun to swap out your wacky decks from battle to battle and just see what happens.
      Mercenaries and being able to swap them out between battles, is a significant aspect of PvE.
      You do not need to sport that one meta deck that just stomps everything.
      You can be just as efficient, possibly even more so, by taking the right team of mercenaries along.
      Plus the added joy of not spamming the same deck all day ;)

      And this begs the question:
      Why is the entire mercenaries mechanic not available in FRA?

      While the campaign is great, even for beginners, frosting became increasingly difficult to shape up to the endgame content of PvE.
      With the recent iterations it now became almost impossible to beat. Even PvE decks that otherwise easily dispose of most of the campaign challenges fail entirely.
      Mercenaries compensate for the difficult challenges, by allowing you to have multiple strategies available to you.
      This strategic layer is missing in FRA!

      @NicoSharp mentioned that Mercenaries could serve as Lives for FRA.
      This opens up potential for truly relevant choices and amazing strategic consequences!

      I think enabling Mercenaries for FRA could also even out the increased difficulty slightly.
      Right now everyone seems to grind Campaign for gold to buy the FRA rewards, rather than actually playing FRA for what it is.

      So please consider:
      Bring the awesome, strategic PvE experience that mercenaries are to the current endgame content of PvE!

      The post was edited 2 times, last by TyrantOgoun ().

    • Good point with the Mercs functioning as Lives @NicoSharp !

      This would add even more difficulty and associated strategic choices than even the Campaign currently got!
      "Do I use my best Merc for this Elite and risk losing him for the rest of the run, or do I use my most disposable Merc and risk an even harder fight?"

      Awesome.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by TyrantOgoun ().

    • What I would love to see is indeed having mercenaries be playable in FRA and then associating a sleeve reward with each mercenary that you get if you do a perfect run (or multiple to make it more challenging) of the FRA with that specific mercenary. This gives us a very big collecting goal, stimulates diverse deckbuilding and it should be very easy to implement because we already have the artwork on each Mercenary card, so you'd only need a distinct cute frame overlay on the artwork that signifies a FRA win.

      Optionally you could reward sleeves only for upgraded mercenaries which would give you another big goldsink.

      Alternatively you could instead of releasing it all at once specify one or some Mercenaries of the month that can be played for a sleeve reward only for that month.

      But yes, Mercenaries should be part of the FRA.
      "Ignorant beliefs are stains upon the mind."
    • Always thought Mercenaries were some of the coolest things to come out of this game but sadly they've been secluded to the campaign mode. I think the FRA encounters/balance would need to be tweaked to accomodate the extra lives and higher power level mercs but that's not a reason not to consider this. Also as was mentioned in Nico's roadmap thread, including mercenaries in Siege would really be huge and having their party passives apply to your 2 other defenses really opens things up in a nice way.
    • Indeed @Bootlace , PvE and Mercs are clearly one of the biggest, if not THE unique feature of Hex that no other TCG/CCG offers.
      After all, they were one of the most alluring kickstarter rewards as well.

      It is a bit baffling to see that they are cut out of such big parts of the PvE content.

      However, I do not see overly much necessity to increase FRA´s difficulty.
      It already became more difficult compared to how it was in the past.
      And, with the concept that, if a mercenary is defeated, that merc is not available to you for the remainder of the run,
      this alone already seems to add more than enough difficulty to compensate for the mercenaries (allegedly) higher power.

      The number of lives essentially stays the same, but if a deck fails, you lost that deck for the rest of the run.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by TyrantOgoun ().

    • Firellius wrote:

      It's probably because mercs are a hell of a lot stronger than champions, and HXE doesn't want FRA to be a comfortable experience for casual players. Adding mercs would require a heavy rebalance of the gamemode so players can't enjoy themselves too much.
      Yep. Enjoying the game is BAD, and should be severely punished!

      At least that's what they are aiming with siege, Who is the boss, and FRA 2.0.
    • Firellius wrote:

      It's probably because mercs are a hell of a lot stronger than champions, and HXE doesn't want FRA to be a comfortable experience for casual players. Adding mercs would require a heavy rebalance of the gamemode so players can't enjoy themselves too much.
      It's exhausting having people repeatedly ask for mercs to be thrown in haphazardly into modes not balanced for them, rather than ask for comparable modes to be implemented. I mean, haven't the past weeks on the forums emphasized enough just how bad an idea it is to let HexEnt haphazardly approach content?

      I want merc-based modes as much as anyone, but I want them to be done right. I want them to be balanced so that they're fun, challenging, engaging, and stimulating.
      What I don't want is for us to push new content updates over game fixes, and have those updates only drag the game further with new problems.

      Let's look at this logically:
      We can't throw mercs into the current FRA, or it'd be completely broken, and not in a fun way (to anyone who doesn't exclusively play games with all cheat codes enabled). We can't remove Champions from it, or we'll have people complaining there's no PvE champion-based mode. Finally, balancing the current FRA around mercs would take about as long as just implementing a new version of FRA would.
      As such, our only option is to push for a merc-based mode and, currently, that's a fringe request that needs to take a backseat to updating core game modes like Campaign, Siege, Ranked, Immortal, Rock, and Sealed to be better playable.

      Eventually, mercs need to be utilized more- they, along with Evo, are really the truly unique elements Hex that has to offer, other than certain nuances in card flavor and mechanics, and thus should be emphasized to make the game stand out more. But we need to stop encouraging HexEnt to go about things in ways that are harmful to the game. Because precedence makes it rather clear that they'll follow through on that.
    • Azuchi wrote:

      Let's look at this logically:
      We can't throw mercs into the current FRA, or it'd be completely broken, and not in a fun way (to anyone who doesn't exclusively play games with all cheat codes enabled). We can't remove Champions from it, or we'll have people complaining there's no PvE champion-based mode. Finally, balancing the current FRA around mercs would take about as long as just implementing a new version of FRA would.
      The thing is : the FRA is already not fun or balanced. Ok, after the release of WtB and playing Siege I actually find FRA a bit more fun in comparison, but still. Enabling mercenaries would let us play more things than just terrormill and other overtuned decks vs. the overtuned FRA elites.

      Players winning in a PVE mode is not a bad thing in itself.

      I would say no probably to upgraded champions, so it's a bit more balanced. Some extremely powerful outliers may be banned in the mode. But generally, I would be happy to use my mercenaries in FRA.
    • cainhu wrote:

      The thing is : the FRA is already not fun or balanced. Ok, after the release of WtB and playing Siege I actually find FRA a bit more fun in comparison, but still. Enabling mercenaries would let us play more things than just terrormill and other overtuned decks vs. the overtuned FRA elites.
      Players winning in a PVE mode is not a bad thing in itself.

      I would say no probably to upgraded champions, so it's a bit more balanced. Some extremely powerful outliers may be banned in the mode. But generally, I would be happy to use my mercenaries in FRA.
      Again, that'd be "FRA - Merc Version", or you run into the problems I listed above.
      I'm not in any way arguing that the FRA isn't a mess (seriously, have you not heard me gripe?), but that's irrelevant to the current discussion point.

      You're either asking to remove one mode in favor of another, which will lead to issues, or you're asking to make an imbalanced mode even more imbalanced, which will lead to even more issues. The only real option is to ask for a variant mode, which isn't what these topics have been doing.
      Honestly, it's rather easy (comparative to other options) to add a "Play with Champion / Play with Merc" toggle to FRA, use the same drops, but have differently tuned opponents. The question becomes "is that worth the effort of implementing at this current point".

      Personally, I'd much rather see an eventual, proper Merc gauntlet (in the non-Hex sense of that word) mode, where you select a certain number of Mercs, and then randomly get a smaller number of them selected (to avoid guaranteeing certain mercs), where you on-death tag-team through them to try and reach the end of one of several narrative sequences.

      Either way, that's asking for new content, when we should be focusing on fixing or updating existing content, or adding more universally appealing content, rather than requesting flavor tweaks to existing modes (no matter how fun mercs are).
    • I'm all for having different FRA lineups if that's what's necessary. Have an FRA 1.0, an FRA 2.0, an FRA Merc-style and heck, even have an FRA 'New Management' mode where you can pick one of the FRA boss decks a la Who's the Boss and try to beat an FRA run with it, why not?
    • Azuchi wrote:

      Firellius wrote:

      It's probably because mercs are a hell of a lot stronger than champions, and HXE doesn't want FRA to be a comfortable experience for casual players. Adding mercs would require a heavy rebalance of the gamemode so players can't enjoy themselves too much.
      It's exhausting having people repeatedly ask for mercs to be thrown in haphazardly into modes not balanced for them, rather than ask for comparable modes to be implemented. I mean, haven't the past weeks on the forums emphasized enough just how bad an idea it is to let HexEnt haphazardly approach content?
      I want merc-based modes as much as anyone, but I want them to be done right. I want them to be balanced so that they're fun, challenging, engaging, and stimulating.
      What I don't want is for us to push new content updates over game fixes, and have those updates only drag the game further with new problems.
      FRA 2.0 wasn't handled haphazardly as far as we know, and the result was a disaster. I don't care about FRA being balanced to be 'challenging', because the definition of 'challenging', in HXE's dictionary is 'can only be played comfortably with top tier cookie cutter decks'.

      Also, I'm not sure where you're getting this idea that the forums have any influence on game development, because I think the past couple of months have made it abundantly clear that HXE does not read the forums nor care one iota about the opinions expressed here.

      Both Siege and FRA currently fill the role of 'repeatable content for cookie cutter decks'. Having one of those modes enable mercs to appeal to casual players more would not hurt. And at that point, FRA is the obvious choice.
    • Firellius wrote:

      FRA 2.0 wasn't handled haphazardly as far as we know, and the result was a disaster. I don't care about FRA being balanced to be 'challenging', because the definition of 'challenging', in HXE's dictionary is 'can only be played comfortably with top tier cookie cutter decks'.
      Also, I'm not sure where you're getting this idea that the forums have any influence on game development, because I think the past couple of months have made it abundantly clear that HXE does not read the forums nor care one iota about the opinions expressed here.

      Both Siege and FRA currently fill the role of 'repeatable content for cookie cutter decks'. Having one of those modes enable mercs to appeal to casual players more would not hurt. And at that point, FRA is the obvious choice.
      FRA 2.0 was problematic because they increased difficulty but didn't add any sort of meaningful scaling between tiers 2 and 4.
      With FRA 3.0, they buffed bosses they said they were going to nerf and surprised us with a slew of new, intensely potent bosses.
      Thus, the balance issues that 2.0 had were massively amplified, and the team completely failed at basic communication yet again.

      All-in-all, haphazard is the theme of the day. And week. And past few years. That said, my point was "we shouldn't significantly break it further [by introducing mercs to it with all the deep thought that they gave to Corinth's release], which is rather irrelevant to discussion of the mode's current state.

      Your second paragraph doesn't seem to relate to my previous post in any way? I was pointing out that the suggestions were both unfeasible and self-sabotaging, I wasn't making any implications that they mattered in any way to the team. We're pretty well established that it's quite likely that just one guy on that team does his own thing, and everyone else be damned. In any case, the point was that these particular suggestions weren't constructive as-written, not that suggestions in general were important in deciding Hex's progression.

      As far as your third paragraph, that's what I was working to offer functional framework for..
      Regardless of how much mercs appeal to me, I was doubting the merits of implementing the mode at this current point in time, yes- but I was also clarifying how such a mode would have to be structured for it to be implementable without causing issues. At no point did I outright naysay such a mode in any way.
    • I'm pretty sure I'm remembering correctly that FRA was originally release with the idea of *eventually* being rolled into the campaign (as a campaign node in the northern mountains) which would allow you to use mercs and your characters.... I wonder if that's still the plan?

      Also, the idea of having mercs making FRA easier is something I'm all for.... it doesn't need to be hard to be fun and the rewards are such that even if their prices fall to the floor, I don't see that as a bad thing either - more options for everyone.

      Finally, the idea of having a sleeve reward for completing FRA with a solo-merc (which I guess would be a perfect run if you made them lives) is a brilliant one :D

      Hep
    • Firellius wrote:

      Azuchi wrote:

      Firellius wrote:

      It's probably because mercs are a hell of a lot stronger than champions, and HXE doesn't want FRA to be a comfortable experience for casual players. Adding mercs would require a heavy rebalance of the gamemode so players can't enjoy themselves too much.
      It's exhausting having people repeatedly ask for mercs to be thrown in haphazardly into modes not balanced for them, rather than ask for comparable modes to be implemented. I mean, haven't the past weeks on the forums emphasized enough just how bad an idea it is to let HexEnt haphazardly approach content?I want merc-based modes as much as anyone, but I want them to be done right. I want them to be balanced so that they're fun, challenging, engaging, and stimulating.
      What I don't want is for us to push new content updates over game fixes, and have those updates only drag the game further with new problems.
      FRA 2.0 wasn't handled haphazardly as far as we know, and the result was a disaster. I don't care about FRA being balanced to be 'challenging', because the definition of 'challenging', in HXE's dictionary is 'can only be played comfortably with top tier cookie cutter decks'.
      Also, I'm not sure where you're getting this idea that the forums have any influence on game development, because I think the past couple of months have made it abundantly clear that HXE does not read the forums nor care one iota about the opinions expressed here.

      Both Siege and FRA currently fill the role of 'repeatable content for cookie cutter decks'. Having one of those modes enable mercs to appeal to casual players more would not hurt. And at that point, FRA is the obvious choice.
      FRA isn't that difficult from my experience. There are a couple of enemies that are tough, but overall it is relatively easy for being the endgame PvE experience. I think people having problems with it takes it on before they should "progression" wise, in which case it should be tough as nails.

      You are also mentioning that their definition of challenge is that it can only be played with ease with top-tier decks, but isn't this a "flaw" with the genre itself rather than the company? I can not think of any way to make the content neither not using your deck at all or its difficulty being strongly affected by what deck you have. The only problem in FRA design I see are that some encounters are in themselves hard counters to some decks in cheap and transparent ways which makes those encounters feel extremely cheap (any encounter having the AI refill their deck every turn for example) rather than trying to make them more challenging for those decks in other ways (such as their decks having plenty of cheap +x/+x troops for each card in crypts).

      The progression seems to be Campaign > FRA > Siege, and if progressing like that I see nothing wrong with FRA.