[Clarification] Dogpile + Troop leaves play

    • [Clarification] Dogpile + Troop leaves play

      So I don't know if this is how it is supposed to work so I want to ask. Sadly there is no other action that I can use for comparisson as Dogpile is the first action that tries to utilize Crush on a damage spell as a mechanic.

      So if you play dogpile on a troop, there are some different scenarious that can happen:

      Dogpile resolves deals damage you get gnolls if the troop had less than 5 [DEFENSE]
      Your opponent kills/sacrifices his own troop --> Dogpile fizzles
      Your opponent bounces/transforms/removes the troop from the game --> Dogpile fizzles.

      Now my question is, especially if this is a test and you want to continue developing actions like this: Is this how it is supposed to work? Or should dogpile rather give you 5 gnolls if the troop gets removed in response as there is 5 excess damage standing?
    • Dogpile cannot create gnolls before dealing the damage which is a distinct difference. So that is false for Dogpile however that is not the intention of the question I know how it works atm. But is that how it is supposed to work and if so it might need some reconsideration if more actions like that should be created in the future.
    • Regarding your initial question. There no longer is a target whose defense you could check against. Not a target with def 0. So that part of the card also fizzles.
      It's not actually crush, where the damage is directed at the opponent and is reduced by an defenders def. There all the damage goes to the opponent if the defender is removed.
    • I know. But this card should reflect how crush works on an action without it actually having crush as that does only work with combat damage. However the current implentation does not count as crush all of the time but only if the target is still around, which is not how crush works. So therefore my two questions, is this how it is actually supposed to be or is it a design flaw.

      If it is supposed to work this way the engine and you are correct and the card is terrible for constructed as it can be interrupted with almost any card that can target your own troops. Which I do not believe in as it is the only rare prismatic removal action of the current set but as it stands worse than all the uncommon prismatic removal actions. And that while having the highest price on them.
    • vestris wrote:

      So I don't know if this is how it is supposed to work so I want to ask. Sadly there is no other action that I can use for comparisson as Dogpile is the first action that tries to utilize Crush on a damage spell as a mechanic.

      So if you play dogpile on a troop, there are some different scenarious that can happen:

      Dogpile resolves deals damage you get gnolls if the troop had less than 5 [DEFENSE]
      Your opponent kills/sacrifices his own troop --> Dogpile fizzles
      Your opponent bounces/transforms/removes the troop from the game --> Dogpile fizzles.

      Now my question is, especially if this is a test and you want to continue developing actions like this: Is this how it is supposed to work? Or should dogpile rather give you 5 gnolls if the troop gets removed in response as there is 5 excess damage standing?
      Dogpile is a single line of text with a single target. When the target is no longer in play, it becomes an invalid target, and that entire line of text fails to resolve, the same as if Gift of the Manti had been played in response. The action does not have Crush, and it behaves like any other action would.

      vestris wrote:

      Push! Also another question that I forgot in my initial post. If you Dogpile a Blight Knight you get 0 gnolls because of Blight Knights Passive as he is considered in Play while being destroyed by the action. Is that how it is supposed to work?
      That's because the Blight Knight is still in play. Fatal damage doesn't cause the troop to go to the crypt until state-based effects are checked, and state-based effects are never checked in the middle of the resolution of a card. The Blight Knight might have damage on it, but it won't die until Dogpile has finished resolving.

      omoreindakitchen wrote:

      Effects go to the chain in the order they are printed on the card. The last effect on the chain is resolved first.
      Candlekin creation goes to the chain after the killing effect.
      Therefore candlekin creation resolves first while the Blight Kight is still alive.
      Same for Dogpile.
      This is not at all true. Action effects happen in the order written on the card, because it's a single resolution. It's only multiple triggered powers on the same card that are affected by "last in, first out" because those powers need to resolve separately. Also, see above about how Dogpile has a single line of text, and how cards fully resolve before a troop dies to damage.