The new prebuild decks are ridiculous, half of my collection is worthless now

    • NeroJinous wrote:

      Metronomy wrote:

      NeroJinous wrote:

      Funny thing is if you cashedout the momentum deck list last week you would be lucky to get $25 for it, so how exactly is it lowering your collection value if the cash out rate on these cards was less than the store price before precon release?
      Actually you got a little more than $25 but lets say it was $25.How much do you think it is now?Come on Nero. I think very highly of you so I hope you can understand that of course that this is a huge price decay over night on the seconday market.
      I don't care about the secondary market. To be honest I don't care about the value of anyone's collection including mine. I play card games to play them. I have never cash out of a card game. I still have my pokemon, yugioh, magic, DBZ, digimon, gundam wing, star wars, etc(the list is really long) cards. I don't still have them because I'm hoarding them to sell or even collecting them. I have them because I treat card games as a game. I also have all my Sega, SNES, ps1, ps2, gamecube, n64, etc(also a long list) games because guess what? Games are fun. Not because I see any value in them. If you think I cared about value do you think I'd giveaway as many cards as I do in hex per year?
      Agreed. All that matters is that the game survives long enough to become popular so we can all keep playing.

      I still have huge boxes of WoW TCG cards in case I ever find someone who wants to play it
      Gamer. Streamer. Photographer. Writer. Anime Lover. Possessor of Stuffed Animals.

      Also... I'm terrible at this game.
    • cainhu wrote:

      Transience wrote:

      Optimism. The game itself is absolutely great. The gameplay is at least as good as MtG. The quality of card design is close to it. The client is lightyears better. I firmly believe it has the potential to become big.
      I would have agreed to you a few years back, but I think that ship was sailed away long ago. Maybe at the botched Steam release, maybe even sooner.
      Uhm, do we use the same client? I don't know about MTGO, but MTGA client is stable as a rock. HEX client still randomly crashes from time to time (multiple times a week), the same as 2 years ago.
      In my case the game hardly crushes anymore, though bugs are becoming more and more annoying (random bugs affecting random pve/limited cards to gamebreaking bugs affecting staples)
    • cainhu wrote:

      Transience wrote:

      Optimism. The game itself is absolutely great. The gameplay is at least as good as MtG. The quality of card design is close to it. The client is lightyears better. I firmly believe it has the potential to become big.
      I would have agreed to you a few years back, but I think that ship was sailed away long ago. Maybe at the botched Steam release, maybe even sooner.
      Uhm, do we use the same client? I don't know about MTGO, but MTGA client is stable as a rock. HEX client still randomly crashes from time to time (multiple times a week), the same as 2 years ago.

      Well, since MTG's card design became worst along the years, and they also not concerned about properly balancing said cards, I may agree on that one. :P

      Still, they has the physical game, the visibility, the marketing and development budget that HexEnt can only dream of. Also, relatively few new players try an "old" and not-that-well received and badly marketed game, compared to any new hotness (from which are many new are incoming), so HexEnt would really need to do something big to go big. I doubt that will happen.

      I have to say that I mostly like the new things (even if there is a lot to criticize), and that additions became more frequent. So I can imagine a slow growth.

      Some people assume that HexEnt plans to change to a CCG or some kind of hybrid model. It could be one part of their move to try to grow big. (if it is true, and if it is a good idea is an entirely different matter)

      My client only occasionally crashes. It's not good, but it's not exactly a problem as reconnecting always works fine. But I was mainly talking about the client itself which is so much better than MTGO. I basically stopped playing MTGO because the client was complete and utter trash. As for MTGA, i'm not sure how comparable that is since it's not a TCG I believe. It also misses all the old cards. (I also think the square textboxless cards look pretty bad, but that's subjective.)

      I'm not sure about MtG design becoming worse in recent year but it was fine at some point. What makes MtG better than HEX when it comes to design is mainly the fact that there is much less RNG. I think HEX needs to pace themselves on exploring the possibilities of the digital design space. Although the latest set has seen a move in the correct way.

      I don't think HEX is becoming a CCG by the way. People just make unfounded speculations about that because they've introduced a few PVE/AA account bound items now.
      "Ignorant beliefs are stains upon the mind."
    • Transience wrote:

      cainhu wrote:

      Transience wrote:

      Optimism. The game itself is absolutely great. The gameplay is at least as good as MtG. The quality of card design is close to it. The client is lightyears better. I firmly believe it has the potential to become big.
      I would have agreed to you a few years back, but I think that ship was sailed away long ago. Maybe at the botched Steam release, maybe even sooner.Uhm, do we use the same client? I don't know about MTGO, but MTGA client is stable as a rock. HEX client still randomly crashes from time to time (multiple times a week), the same as 2 years ago.

      Well, since MTG's card design became worst along the years, and they also not concerned about properly balancing said cards, I may agree on that one. :P

      Still, they has the physical game, the visibility, the marketing and development budget that HexEnt can only dream of. Also, relatively few new players try an "old" and not-that-well received and badly marketed game, compared to any new hotness (from which are many new are incoming), so HexEnt would really need to do something big to go big. I doubt that will happen.

      I have to say that I mostly like the new things (even if there is a lot to criticize), and that additions became more frequent. So I can imagine a slow growth.

      Some people assume that HexEnt plans to change to a CCG or some kind of hybrid model. It could be one part of their move to try to grow big. (if it is true, and if it is a good idea is an entirely different matter)
      My client only occasionally crashes. It's not good, but it's not exactly a problem as reconnecting always works fine. But I was mainly talking about the client itself which is so much better than MTGO. I basically stopped playing MTGO because the client was complete and utter trash. As for MTGA, i'm not sure how comparable that is since it's not a TCG I believe. It also misses all the old cards. (I also think the square textboxless cards look pretty bad, but that's subjective.)

      I'm not sure about MtG design becoming worse in recent year but it was fine at some point. What makes MtG better than HEX when it comes to design is mainly the fact that there is much less RNG. I think HEX needs to pace themselves on exploring the possibilities of the digital design space. Although the latest set has seen a move in the correct way.

      I don't think HEX is becoming a CCG by the way. People just make unfounded speculations about that because they've introduced a few PVE/AA account bound items now.
      I disagree about Hex being more rng than Mtg. Fateweave is a thing and I hope we will see more of it among all shards.
    • Morwath wrote:

      I disagree about Hex being more rng than Mtg. Fateweave is a thing and I hope we will see more of it among all shards.
      Portal, conscript, "random boon", "random troop with cost X" ... just to name some not-so-rare outliers. Even Fateweave is random.

      Hex is definitely more random than MTG. It is not in itself good or bad. But it would favor a more casual environment than HEX currently is.

      @Transience - Well, there were several sets I didn't liked, but honestly I don't follow MTG development too closely. I think HEX is not a rival to MTGO, as the later is mainly used by current and ex physical MTG players.

      Honestly speaking, many card game players don't care if a card game CCG or TCG or whatever. Can they reasonably collect cards or not?

      What makes MTG better in design, that while there are some extreme things here and there, it shows that they are doing extensive testing. Also, I have the feeling, that when they release a new set, they don't only think about standard. In the same time in HEX, while the war between the factions was the major theme until set 6, some races/themes were completely cut off since.

      I don't even mention theme choices/stories, as it's a personal preference. But I think the current MurderBall theme was a big fault, as I highly doubt anybody is interested in the story of personality-less balls of doom. In the same time, currently MTG's story is built around a various cast of recurring personalities. And then we get Hogarth.
    • cainhu wrote:

      I don't even mention theme choices/stories, as it's a personal preference. But I think the current MurderBall theme was a big fault, as I highly doubt anybody is interested in the story of personality-less balls of doom. In the same time, currently MTG's story is built around a various cast of recurring personalities. And then we get Hogarth.
      I would argue that personality-less balls of doom is not the problem, or at least that alone isn't enough to make or break a story. It's the lack of characters we have here. For instance, when I play X-Com, I care about my team more than the adversity and seeing my team growing and fighting is what keeps the story(in my head) going. It's not like the aliens there have the personalities of RPG villains anyway.
    • I would also cop that I find the enders super boring as antagonists and the story of this set is uninteresting (to me) at best--or has actively swept the bits that I liked about last set (e.g. the Luminaries last set being stylish and cool -> their downfall into this weird hellraiser motif) at worst.
    • cainhu wrote:

      Morwath wrote:

      I disagree about Hex being more rng than Mtg. Fateweave is a thing and I hope we will see more of it among all shards.
      Portal, conscript, "random boon", "random troop with cost X" ... just to name some not-so-rare outliers. Even Fateweave is random.
      Hex is definitely more random than MTG. It is not in itself good or bad. But it would favor a more casual environment than HEX currently is.

      @Transience - Well, there were several sets I didn't liked, but honestly I don't follow MTG development too closely. I think HEX is not a rival to MTGO, as the later is mainly used by current and ex physical MTG players.

      Honestly speaking, many card game players don't care if a card game CCG or TCG or whatever. Can they reasonably collect cards or not?

      What makes MTG better in design, that while there are some extreme things here and there, it shows that they are doing extensive testing. Also, I have the feeling, that when they release a new set, they don't only think about standard. In the same time in HEX, while the war between the factions was the major theme until set 6, some races/themes were completely cut off since.

      I don't even mention theme choices/stories, as it's a personal preference. But I think the current MurderBall theme was a big fault, as I highly doubt anybody is interested in the story of personality-less balls of doom. In the same time, currently MTG's story is built around a various cast of recurring personalities. And then we get Hogarth.
      Existence of RNG cards, doesn't make game RNG. For example, if you decide to play Candles you won't have any RNG cards included, yet your RNG will be heavily reduced by fateweave shards and Guidance. On the otherside, you will be a bit more RNG dependant while playing Momentum deck that includes Merry Caravan and Wildlife.

      I still would consider Replipopper less RNG than Bloodbraid Elf is... and I would like to remind that Howling One is like in top3 most popular decks in Modern with its Burning Inquiry and Goblin Lore RNG? I don't know why they didn't call that deck RNGesus.
    • Transience wrote:

      It's the RNG stuff that creates random cards from outside of decks that is the difference. Bloodbraid Elf still only results in a card that you consciously put in your deck. Merry Caravan can create anything.
      The difference is, you can play Momentum without Merry Caravan and dodge RNG, while you won't play Jund without BBE, because why would you do so?
      Also, it's not big difference, as BBE cascade can be revelant or irrevelant thats a bit flip a coin mechanic, because you can get discard that discards nothing, or removal that kill nothing... or you can get single Anger of the Gods out of it and win game because of that like JeffHoogland.
    • Morwath wrote:

      Transience wrote:

      It's the RNG stuff that creates random cards from outside of decks that is the difference. Bloodbraid Elf still only results in a card that you consciously put in your deck. Merry Caravan can create anything.
      The difference is, you can play Momentum without Merry Caravan and dodge RNG, while you won't play Jund without BBE, because why would you do so?Also, it's not big difference, as BBE cascade can be revelant or irrevelant thats a bit flip a coin mechanic, because you can get discard that discards nothing, or removal that kill nothing... or you can get single Anger of the Gods out of it and win game because of that like JeffHoogland.
      I can decide not to play RNG cards at all but they could still arise on the other side of the table.
      "Ignorant beliefs are stains upon the mind."
    • New

      Transience wrote:

      Morwath wrote:

      Transience wrote:

      It's the RNG stuff that creates random cards from outside of decks that is the difference. Bloodbraid Elf still only results in a card that you consciously put in your deck. Merry Caravan can create anything.
      The difference is, you can play Momentum without Merry Caravan and dodge RNG, while you won't play Jund without BBE, because why would you do so?Also, it's not big difference, as BBE cascade can be revelant or irrevelant thats a bit flip a coin mechanic, because you can get discard that discards nothing, or removal that kill nothing... or you can get single Anger of the Gods out of it and win game because of that like JeffHoogland.
      I can decide not to play RNG cards at all but they could still arise on the other side of the table.
      I really don't care about RNG on enemy side of table as long as it doesn't turn my own side into RNG. Thats why I hate Brosi-Buk, Mischief Master so much.
    • New

      Transience wrote:

      Morwath wrote:

      Transience wrote:

      It's the RNG stuff that creates random cards from outside of decks that is the difference. Bloodbraid Elf still only results in a card that you consciously put in your deck. Merry Caravan can create anything.
      The difference is, you can play Momentum without Merry Caravan and dodge RNG, while you won't play Jund without BBE, because why would you do so?Also, it's not big difference, as BBE cascade can be revelant or irrevelant thats a bit flip a coin mechanic, because you can get discard that discards nothing, or removal that kill nothing... or you can get single Anger of the Gods out of it and win game because of that like JeffHoogland.
      I can decide not to play RNG cards at all but they could still arise on the other side of the table.
      All card games already have the issue of drawing the right cards or useless cards, so adding proper degree of randomness doesn't affect the game as a whole. Even better, these randomness sometimes can be used as a tool to adjust power level of cards, which hex is doing great. The difference between transmogrifade turning a 2-cost troop into 4/4 or worker bot is just like the difference between drawing lands/ sphinx's revelation in topdeck mode.
    • New

      @JakishaFU:
      What the hack are you talking about?

      If I list a card that you consider overpriced at the lowest auction house price I am a bad dude?
      And same goes for if I decide to not list a card when its price is dow@'JakishaFU'

      Yo got it all wrong, dont make it about you or me....

      its about the game. That is how I see it. State that the prices were was bad. bad for company, bad for 95% of players. Its sweat that here and there if you sold 1 you could get up to 1600p, but in overrall perspective, you are losing. losing amount of your opponents, company losing money, bc as strange as it sounds, if you put price ceiling that high, less people spent it, losing new player who wants to come and test hex for a week or 2,

      there are a lot of games around the corner. I love the fact that Hex is doing stuff to counter current state.

      De-pricing the cards is losing value for people who had em, but if you think about it, it will gain you value over time. more people, more new players, more wants new cards from future sets and as veteran you have competitive edge over that. you will draft, open sealed, get does cards and profit again.

      I have half of does cards, so it lost some value for me to, I was never intending to sell does. I really dont care for the loss.

      I can understand someone who had like 10 goldfathers and was putting em on AH. For does people I have only 1 thing to say. Greed is not good sir. I can bet, you would sold your stuff at -20% AH value at a time in seconds. I usually sell most mine stuff at -15/ -25% of curent AH value. I dont like ripping people off.

      I sold 2 replipopers to guild member at around 600 when they were going for 850, sure I could got more value, if no one would want em in guild, I would post it in AH for that amount. Mine hope would be that new player could picked em up for grabs and not the retailer to snatch and repost.
    • New

      Now you are talking about the general idea of reducing card prices by listing cheap constructed deck.

      The topic on which you quoted me (so sorry if I thought you were talking to me with your references) was about what qualifies as market manipulation and unwanted behaviour though. You seem to suggest that when I list a card on the auction house that has a high price that I was part of the problem. So thats why I asked you direct questions (which you chose to not address whatsoever).

      Its fine though...probably for the better when we just move on.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Metronomy ().

    • New

      hugeheadliang wrote:

      Transience wrote:

      Morwath wrote:

      Transience wrote:

      It's the RNG stuff that creates random cards from outside of decks that is the difference. Bloodbraid Elf still only results in a card that you consciously put in your deck. Merry Caravan can create anything.
      The difference is, you can play Momentum without Merry Caravan and dodge RNG, while you won't play Jund without BBE, because why would you do so?Also, it's not big difference, as BBE cascade can be revelant or irrevelant thats a bit flip a coin mechanic, because you can get discard that discards nothing, or removal that kill nothing... or you can get single Anger of the Gods out of it and win game because of that like JeffHoogland.
      I can decide not to play RNG cards at all but they could still arise on the other side of the table.
      All card games already have the issue of drawing the right cards or useless cards, so adding proper degree of randomness doesn't affect the game as a whole. Even better, these randomness sometimes can be used as a tool to adjust power level of cards, which hex is doing great. The difference between transmogrifade turning a 2-cost troop into 4/4 or worker bot is just like the difference between drawing lands/ sphinx's revelation in topdeck mode.
      'Proper' being the relevant key here. ;)
      "Ignorant beliefs are stains upon the mind."
    • New

      Interesting, there are 2 valid points of view :
      (A) The sudden arrival of those powerful signature decks are crippling the value of some staples. Bad feeling for people who have invested in those cards.
      (B) Those powerful signature decks will help the whole game to thrive by giving players access to the competitive constructed scene for $25. Good for the long term value of our collections.

      Both are true. I think the goal (B) of Hexent is the right one here, but the method could really be better to avoid (A).

      From the beginning, I don't like the economic model. Staples at 3000-4000 plat are terrible for the game. Such prices should never happen, except for collectible or vanity stuff like AA. Playing the core game should be more affordable (Path of Exile is totally free and totally healthy). To achieve that, the recycling of crappy cards to craft playable cards would help to fix the scarcity of bombs and to set an upper monetary value a card could reach (500 plat would be fine for me):
      1) a lot more players would be able to play constructed;
      2) no need to wait signature decks for that;
      3) no bad surprise.