Poll: Given the many recent new additions/changes to Hex in the last weeks (Merry Melee modes, Cosmic Coins/Siege Sacks, Ladder changes), is your future outlook on Hex positive?

  • No, not really. Siege sacks will be cool for a little bit, but doesn't solve Siege's AI problems. I know that the developers want more PvE content (you can see it whenever they talk about it, it's what makes Hex special and they want to bring it to the forefront), but we still don't see much of it. It's a backseat compared to new set development. My negative theory is that Hex's code has become large and unwieldy, and they simply can't produce new content at the rate they want to. It's why issues linger on longer than they ever should. Their development mode seems to be working on something new, staple it into existing systems, and move forward. Why can't we get a revamp of the AH? Why is the AI still so terrible? Are we ever going to see the finished PvE product?

    I don't think their internal structure is easy enough to work with in a sustainable way. I think they've wanted to fix card identity before restructuring AH, such that cards are no longer unique items (since Doublebacks have been dropped), and it's just not feasible. Things like that are holding up features that we should have seen a long time ago. Bugs are getting so impossible to fix that we're in the 'it's a feature, not a bug' mode.

    I think the game's being dragged down by kludgy code. I don't have proof, but that's what it feels like every time I see new posts on the forums. So I'm not hopeful. I got my money's worth out of the game already, so it's whatever, but I really was looking forward to a robust and ongoing PvE campaign.
    Old username: Aradon | Collector backer | Starting a guild for Newbies -- "The Cerulean Acadamy" -- Taking applications once guilds are implemented

  • I'm feeling confusing whiplash considering I've managed to go nearly five years without really getting mad so much as disappointed or frustrated with Hex. Hopefully that'll temper out (double entendre intended...?) and not just signify finally getting past the line to where I bail from the game permanently.

    I think a lot of it for me, personally, at least--is multiple back to back to back things where HXE got my hopes up with how things were presented initially only to turn into very aggravating / frustrating / upsetting implementation when they actually came about. That's sort of Hex in a nutshell, isn't it? What it could be / what individuals work it up in their own heads to be / then what it actually is and what limited resources / design decisions finally deliver.

    Siege's pitched potential vs. reality, non-tradeable coins, fee-gated and non-on-demand challenge alternate game modes have all just been a precipitous slide into feeling defeated and unhappy for me stacked onto the basic reality that the ship has sailed on more or less everything else I was hoping to get out of Hex... and, well, despite having invested years of attention and thousands of dollars I'm right at my personal breaking point (finally.)

    Your mileage will, of course, vary!

  • Blackwood wrote:

    I'm feeling confusing whiplash considering I've managed to go nearly five years without really getting mad so much as disappointed or frustrated with Hex. Hopefully that'll temper out (double entendre intended...?) and not just signify finally getting past the line to where I bail from the game permanently.

    I think a lot of it for me, personally, at least--is multiple back to back to back things where HXE got my hopes up with how things were presented initially only to turn into very aggravating / frustrating / upsetting implementation when they actually came about. That's sort of Hex in a nutshell, isn't it? What it could be / what individuals work it up in their own heads to be / then what it actually is and what limited resources / design decisions finally deliver.

    Siege's pitched potential vs. reality, non-tradeable coins, fee-gated and non-on-demand challenge alternate game modes have all just been a precipitous slide into feeling defeated and unhappy for me stacked onto the basic reality that the ship has sailed on more or less everything else I was hoping to get out of Hex... and, well, despite having invested years of attention and thousands of dollars I'm right at my personal breaking point (finally.)

    Your mileage will, of course, vary!
    From my experiences with Hex I get the impression the CEO is a bit of a concept guy that comes up with great and grand ideas, but then reality crushes them a bit (the double back thing for example was a nice digital idea, the collection infrastructure (every card as an individual) to make them possible however is crippling, and needs to be redone.) Its like everyone was sold the perfect TCG and then life isn't like that, so ... still got a great (despite its many flaws - collection manager, AH, new player experience to name but a few) game in my opinion. Recent developments / announcements whilst not all implemented or described as I'd like are on the whole positive. Let's hope its not too late and they loosen up the market and get more people playing as well as people playing more.

  • Blackwood wrote:

    I'm feeling confusing whiplash considering I've managed to go nearly five years without really getting mad so much as disappointed or frustrated with Hex. Hopefully that'll temper out (double entendre intended...?) and not just signify finally getting past the line to where I bail from the game permanently.
    Goddamn if I know exactly what you are feeling.

  • xbete wrote:

    Blackwood wrote:

    I'm feeling confusing whiplash considering I've managed to go nearly five years without really getting mad so much as disappointed or frustrated with Hex. Hopefully that'll temper out (double entendre intended...?) and not just signify finally getting past the line to where I bail from the game permanently.

    I think a lot of it for me, personally, at least--is multiple back to back to back things where HXE got my hopes up with how things were presented initially only to turn into very aggravating / frustrating / upsetting implementation when they actually came about. That's sort of Hex in a nutshell, isn't it? What it could be / what individuals work it up in their own heads to be / then what it actually is and what limited resources / design decisions finally deliver.

    Siege's pitched potential vs. reality, non-tradeable coins, fee-gated and non-on-demand challenge alternate game modes have all just been a precipitous slide into feeling defeated and unhappy for me stacked onto the basic reality that the ship has sailed on more or less everything else I was hoping to get out of Hex... and, well, despite having invested years of attention and thousands of dollars I'm right at my personal breaking point (finally.)

    Your mileage will, of course, vary!
    From my experiences with Hex I get the impression the CEO is a bit of a concept guy that comes up with great and grand ideas, but then reality crushes them a bit (the double back thing for example was a nice digital idea, the collection infrastructure (every card as an individual) to make them possible however is crippling, and needs to be redone.) Its like everyone was sold the perfect TCG and then life isn't like that, so ... still got a great (despite its many flaws - collection manager, AH, new player experience to name but a few) game in my opinion. Recent developments / announcements whilst not all implemented or described as I'd like are on the whole positive. Let's hope its not too late and they loosen up the market and get more people playing as well as people playing more.
    This, this, a thousand times this. I'm an idea guy myself along with a programmer, so I'm all too familiar with how the reality of the code and infrastructure can crush a burgeoning hope and idea quicker than Elite Hogarth. Cory Jones is a fantastic guy, and I truly believe that a lot of it is just reality being unable to accommodate a lot of his visions, forcing them to scale back. I value everything the dev team and art team does (truly, the art team is worth their weight in solid gold...or plat), and I understand that they're going through struggles every day trying to make the game all it can be.

    However, much like others, I would love to see a lot more communication regarding future plans - and, even, what particular pitfalls they're running into with implementation, because I like seeing things like that to see what hurdles are being hit and/or overcome. I think they're making steps in the right direction, but the race is a marathon and not a sprint. Whether they're able to keep this up over time will be the true test, but I honestly think they're starting to realize that the community presence isn't just a fountain of ideas that wind up as "will they won't they" plans, but the biggest and best source of criticism that can drive their future direction, earnings, and fanbase to a more positive place.

  • These options do not provide an answer I am comfortable saying.

    I see these changes as positive, and they are steps in the right direction, but I am not confident that they are fully onto that path.
    Gamer. Streamer. Photographer. Writer. Anime Lover. Possessor of Stuffed Animals.

    Also... I'm terrible at this game.

  • Obsidian wrote:

    No, not really. Siege sacks will be cool for a little bit, but doesn't solve Siege's AI problems. I know that the developers want more PvE content (you can see it whenever they talk about it, it's what makes Hex special and they want to bring it to the forefront), but we still don't see much of it. It's a backseat compared to new set development. My negative theory is that Hex's code has become large and unwieldy, and they simply can't produce new content at the rate they want to. It's why issues linger on longer than they ever should. Their development mode seems to be working on something new, staple it into existing systems, and move forward. Why can't we get a revamp of the AH? Why is the AI still so terrible? Are we ever going to see the finished PvE product?

    I don't think their internal structure is easy enough to work with in a sustainable way. I think they've wanted to fix card identity before restructuring AH, such that cards are no longer unique items (since Doublebacks have been dropped), and it's just not feasible. Things like that are holding up features that we should have seen a long time ago. Bugs are getting so impossible to fix that we're in the 'it's a feature, not a bug' mode.

    I think the game's being dragged down by kludgy code. I don't have proof, but that's what it feels like every time I see new posts on the forums. So I'm not hopeful. I got my money's worth out of the game already, so it's whatever, but I really was looking forward to a robust and ongoing PvE campaign.

    This is what I think as well.

    HxE initially was a team of great TCG game designers with very little exposure to being a software development company. Unity was decided as the base back when they started. Now I'm guessing that there is a pretty large engineering team in place and they may even make up more than half the resources in the company. I would love to know, just at a conversational level, what their opinion is on using Unity and whether they would prefer coding in something else.

    I don't know enough about these things, but it sounds like any decision to change the base would be suicidal, so they're stuck with what they have and need to make the best of it. Based on the past couple of weeks, I think there has been some change in direction and strategy. My hope is that this leads to an uplift in player retention and engagement and subsequently, longevity of the game.

    I'm an eternal optimist, so I'll always take the positive outlook.

  • xbete wrote:

    Its like everyone was sold the perfect TCG
    I don't want a perfect one, I just want one that doesn't feel so broken, rushed, and partially abandoned.
    If they fix the core issues, I'd be fine waiting for future content updates, however long they take.
    But so long as they're painting the dam while ignoring the leaks in it, while the village below is slowly getting flooded under the rising waters..
    That's just not the right path for them to take. Plug the dam first, then add paint. Or do both at once. Don't spend years ignoring the holes, hoping people'll enjoy living on top of the roofs of their houses and swimming everywhere all the time enough that the village doesn't get abandoned entirely.

    Some of the problems they have (ie, adding matchmaking), could have been wrapped up in a week by a single coder in certain other games (as a baseline reference). If "messy code framework" is the basis for why they haven't fixed core issues for so long, then it'd have to be extremely bad off to account for them putting aside exceptionally simple coding tasks. Which leads us back to the "Hex gives an impression that it's falling apart" perception, either way.

    Basically, whether it's to appeal to players or just to prove they're not giving up entirely and that the game is still functional and will be so in the future, they desperately need to attend to the issues. The longer they leave them unattended, the more damning the implications are- regardless of what angle we approach considering them by.
    On the one hand the game is falling apart, on the other, the devs don't care about presenting something the fanbase wants. Either way, Hex continues forcibly pushing players out with a combination of unfriendly interface and weak polish, and disfavorable consumer relations.

    The reason we care- those of us pushing for specific key improvements, rather than just griping generally- is that we do love Hex, and we do want to support it, and keep playing it for a long time to come. But right now, we're feeling strongly discouraged from that, both as players (who no longer believe in the game's future) and as fans (who no longer believe in the developer).

    Give us a reason to give more support, and we'll pay off the extra attention given to the core game. Keep pushing everyone- new and old- away from the game, and..
    really, what kind of reputation is Hex going for? As someone commented in my recent thread in the suggestions forum, it kinda feels (valid or not) like Hex has given up on anything but sloppily rushing out KS promises as fast as possible so that they can wrap the game up for good.



    Worst part? While we've had complaints since beta, all this exploding drama is fairly recent. It seemed like they were steadily (albeit very slowly) moving upward from Beta. The game was getting steadily more stable, the AH was.. functional, bugs were finally few and minor, etc. Back when AZ2 hit, everything was looking golden for the game's future. Then Set 7 dropped, and everything went to hell- and kept spiraling downward.

  • I think it's made improvement, and that's good.

    My greater concern right now is that MTG has their new Arena client up and running.
    I've always known that Hex was on a bit of a ticking clock in regards to WOTC releasing a Magic client, especially after they sued Hex.

    Obviously we have a lot of digital card games these days, but Hex was a bit unique in being MTG-but-not-and-digital. Now we have MTG-digital and I worry it will overshadow Hex entirely as a result.
    Only saving grace at this point is that it seems Arena is literally just a port of the physical cards, so they still aren't taking advantage of digital space, that's where Hex needs to really invest itself.
    And in PvE as well of course. That's still Hex's biggest room to grow.

  • Chocmaw wrote:

    Obsidian wrote:

    No, not really. Siege sacks will be cool for a little bit, but doesn't solve Siege's AI problems. I know that the developers want more PvE content (you can see it whenever they talk about it, it's what makes Hex special and they want to bring it to the forefront), but we still don't see much of it. It's a backseat compared to new set development. My negative theory is that Hex's code has become large and unwieldy, and they simply can't produce new content at the rate they want to. It's why issues linger on longer than they ever should. Their development mode seems to be working on something new, staple it into existing systems, and move forward. Why can't we get a revamp of the AH? Why is the AI still so terrible? Are we ever going to see the finished PvE product?

    I don't think their internal structure is easy enough to work with in a sustainable way. I think they've wanted to fix card identity before restructuring AH, such that cards are no longer unique items (since Doublebacks have been dropped), and it's just not feasible. Things like that are holding up features that we should have seen a long time ago. Bugs are getting so impossible to fix that we're in the 'it's a feature, not a bug' mode.

    I think the game's being dragged down by kludgy code. I don't have proof, but that's what it feels like every time I see new posts on the forums. So I'm not hopeful. I got my money's worth out of the game already, so it's whatever, but I really was looking forward to a robust and ongoing PvE campaign.
    This is what I think as well.

    HxE initially was a team of great TCG game designers with very little exposure to being a software development company. Unity was decided as the base back when they started. Now I'm guessing that there is a pretty large engineering team in place and they may even make up more than half the resources in the company. I would love to know, just at a conversational level, what their opinion is on using Unity and whether they would prefer coding in something else.

    I don't know enough about these things, but it sounds like any decision to change the base would be suicidal, so they're stuck with what they have and need to make the best of it. Based on the past couple of weeks, I think there has been some change in direction and strategy. My hope is that this leads to an uplift in player retention and engagement and subsequently, longevity of the game.

    I'm an eternal optimist, so I'll always take the positive outlook.
    As someone who has worked with multiple engines I can say unity definitely isn't the proper choice for hex and in many cases does make developing hex harder. My bet is the cross platform support feature of unity was what made hex ent pick it. The idea that in theory you only have to code once then port to all platforms probably made hex think they could focus more on new content and have less engineers overall. On paper sounds great, but unity really isnt meant for a tcg. It is better for level based games like platformers or shooters.

  • I feel like all of my good will is just dead at this point.

    The game is never going to get developed at the pace that people want. There is a long list of kickstarter promises that are just never going to materialize - MMO-TCG... haha, no. The player base has been anemic since day one, but it still feels like its never been worse then now. The marketing for the game was terrible; bordering on literally non-existent - they have been expecting Hex players do to the leg work on finding them more players.


    I'm still playing because its not costing me anything to do so. Just sitting here waiting for them to announce the end.

  • NeroJinous wrote:

    Chocmaw wrote:

    Obsidian wrote:

    No, not really. Siege sacks will be cool for a little bit, but doesn't solve Siege's AI problems. I know that the developers want more PvE content (you can see it whenever they talk about it, it's what makes Hex special and they want to bring it to the forefront), but we still don't see much of it. It's a backseat compared to new set development. My negative theory is that Hex's code has become large and unwieldy, and they simply can't produce new content at the rate they want to. It's why issues linger on longer than they ever should. Their development mode seems to be working on something new, staple it into existing systems, and move forward. Why can't we get a revamp of the AH? Why is the AI still so terrible? Are we ever going to see the finished PvE product?

    I don't think their internal structure is easy enough to work with in a sustainable way. I think they've wanted to fix card identity before restructuring AH, such that cards are no longer unique items (since Doublebacks have been dropped), and it's just not feasible. Things like that are holding up features that we should have seen a long time ago. Bugs are getting so impossible to fix that we're in the 'it's a feature, not a bug' mode.

    I think the game's being dragged down by kludgy code. I don't have proof, but that's what it feels like every time I see new posts on the forums. So I'm not hopeful. I got my money's worth out of the game already, so it's whatever, but I really was looking forward to a robust and ongoing PvE campaign.
    This is what I think as well.
    HxE initially was a team of great TCG game designers with very little exposure to being a software development company. Unity was decided as the base back when they started. Now I'm guessing that there is a pretty large engineering team in place and they may even make up more than half the resources in the company. I would love to know, just at a conversational level, what their opinion is on using Unity and whether they would prefer coding in something else.

    I don't know enough about these things, but it sounds like any decision to change the base would be suicidal, so they're stuck with what they have and need to make the best of it. Based on the past couple of weeks, I think there has been some change in direction and strategy. My hope is that this leads to an uplift in player retention and engagement and subsequently, longevity of the game.

    I'm an eternal optimist, so I'll always take the positive outlook.
    As someone who has worked with multiple engines I can say unity definitely isn't the proper choice for hex and in many cases does make developing hex harder. My bet is the cross platform support feature of unity was what made hex ent pick it. The idea that in theory you only have to code once then port to all platforms probably made hex think they could focus more on new content and have less engineers overall. On paper sounds great, but unity really isnt meant for a tcg. It is better for level based games like platformers or shooters.
    Mtg arena is unity , is very fluid and will be ported Maybe it’s just badly coded.? (I have 0 knowledge of coding just mentioning )

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Portensio ().

  • NeroJinous wrote:

    As someone who has worked with multiple engines I can say unity definitely isn't the proper choice for hex and in many cases does make developing hex harder. My bet is the cross platform support feature of unity was what made hex ent pick it. The idea that in theory you only have to code once then port to all platforms probably made hex think they could focus more on new content and have less engineers overall. On paper sounds great, but unity really isnt meant for a tcg. It is better for level based games like platformers or shooters.
    Is that a true roadblock, or is it just going uphill at a steeper incline?

  • Overall, I think they're addressing the main problems the community had in the past weeks at a good speed. Implementation may be an issue for some, but its better having something and start from there. I believe they havdo things that are in between what they want, what we want and what they ca do. And that creates negative feedback some time

    I think the game, in PvP, is closer to have a very consistent client who can compete with any top game. Improving the new player experience and introducing more support to other formats (casual and competitive) its the final paintbrush.

    I think they're addressing the right issues. Some things can be done differently? Sure.

    My fear is that the community is just overly negative towards the game (with or without reason). Anything they do gets 10 pages of people complaining, some even with some kind of violence. Thats just bad, and it will hurt the game more than any lack of marketing. If your player base (and th one that gathers to form community) have that attitude, its just going to fail because whatever thy do with their limited respurces will never met any expectations. To be clear, its not fault of the users, but I dont see how they can lift the spirit up at this point.
    Twitter: @Plotynus

  • I think the PVP side of the game is doing ok with the extra incentives to play and game modes for retention which is great for those that enjoy PVP but the PVE side of the game is and has been languishing for far too long which has put a serious dent in the playerbase interested in this mode of play. There are better options for the PVE minded player than Hex currently/due out soon which probably means that the PVE kickstarter vision won't ever be realized as the playerbase just isn't there. Like a few other long term players I am ever hopeful but reality has well and truly gotten in the way. I have got a lot of mileage from my Dungeon Crawler tier and wouldn't be too disappointed if/when they close the servers but I do/will always pine for the fully featured PVE raiding experience that will almost certainly (after all these years and an admission that they don't know how to) never materialize.

  • Angmar wrote:

    they have been expecting Hex players do to the leg work on finding them more players.
    In fairness, we have done so, and gladly.
    ..well, up until the point that we realized just how heavily Hex was sabotaging our efforts.

    In my case, a few dozen invitees in, and I felt stupid for liking the game at all- as not only had nearly all of them listed the same reasons for leaving (and all of them did have the same overlapping short list of reasons), but they scoffed at my sticking with the game despite the developers not attending to basics.
    Getting comments like "I don't get why you'd play a game where the developers clearly don't care." "I don't get why you'd play a game where things are handled so piss-poorly" and "You actually like this? Awfully masochistic of you." really wears down on you, especially when it comes from players that you've invited to other games, and who typically stick with even trashier games for a couple of months. [Though in fairness, those were the minority of the comments- far more were of the "Ugh, this is clearly unfinished" or "Well, they clearly don't want to put in any effort to help us get into playing, so why should I put in any effort myself." variety.]

    Not a single player I invited stuck with Hex- meanwhile, usual retention for my invitees in other online multiplayer games ranges up to perhaps 60% (for sticking with the game, to some degree, for at least a duration of 2 months). Most players stopped playing Hex after two days with it, and I don't believe any made it past a week.
    Again, all left for the exact same reasons across all of them- reasons that have been shared by many other new players both in public chat, and in private discussions with me (right before they too left the game). Reasons that all the vet players regularly insist on having fixed.

    Given the lack of apology given for some of the team's more significant communication failures, and the general trend of communication issues, and it's like the team is not only actively trying to sabotage the game by not marketing or polishing it, but that they're openly antagonistic toward the very idea of retaining their player base (and at times, perhaps even antagonistic to the players themselves).
    The fact that they promised AH updates at one point and never followed up on them in any way after the fact, really didn't help those impressions.

    If they just say "Hey, the code framework does indeed slow down how fast we can release things, but we're aware of community concerns and we're trying our best to fit in core fixes as soon as possible" and "We acknowledge we did badly in the past, but we're trying to improve our response", that- sincere or not- would be enough to reearn at least some temporary good-will. This lack of response to complaints that have been floating around since at least Sep 2016 is.. problematic.

    Really, throw us something, just so we can stop tearing into a game we love, something we do in the hope that we'll finally get a long, long-overdue response of any sort. Then, maybe review how the team wants to approach prioritization, communication, and marketing- ie, the three things dragging down a game that is otherwise inherently awesome.

    Plotynus wrote:

    To be clear, its not fault of the users, but I dont see how they can lift the spirit up at this point.
    Maybe, y'know, actually try communicating with us? If they'd handle the very short list of critical concerns at some point, that'd be nice as well, but it's the lack of trustworthy, reliable communication that is escalating all the negativity. It's to the point that even the most dedicated players are talking quite negatively about Hex- which, as you say, should be the last thing Hex wants. The problem here isn't in the negative player response, but that Hex doesn't seem to care about it at all.. which, of course, further escalates and perpetuates it.
    If they WERE trying their best, they'd make allies of us again, and we'd hush down the more generally negative players. That's.. how it works, y'know?
    It's like tipping a tupperware with a bit of water in it back and forth between your hands. The water clings together, you just gotta make sure you're tipping the container in the right direction. Perhaps you'll find yourself standing on a decline that hinders your efforts too far to salvage anything, but generally, all you gotta do is make the basic effort, and things sort themselves out.
    Again, Hex's problems are all down to a matter of approach. The more negativity they let fester, the more both players and team members are going to dislike participating in the game. They should pinpoint the sources of negativity (which we've clearly detailed for them in several places up till now) and attempt some sort of functional response. Generally, players in any game don't go in with the intent to bash a game, but to enjoy or, failing that, casually dismiss it. In other words, even if negative elements do remain, new players (which should have far higher retention after the changes we're pushing for) should slowly push that out to being a minority.