A Discussion About Bugs

    • "First, banning all bugged cards (as some players have suggested) is impractical."

      The question at hand is a different one though:
      The question is wether palm of granite (one of the most played cards of the entire format and not just any card) should be temp-banned.
      The bug resulting in unwanted variance makes it imo even worse than other bugs. I would temp ban it personaly.

      My biggest issue with all this wasnt addressed at all though:
      You need to communicate those things better. Especialy when the bug involves a tier 1 meta card.
      Have the info about the bug part of the friday update where you promote the bash.
      Have it part of the ingame broadcast where you promote the bash.
      Have it part of the deck-builder ("Warning: this card is currently bugged.").
      The last one might be a bit tricky. The first two involve no extra work essentialy though.


      As to cosmic coins:
      I remain highly doubtful wether this will really be enough to close the incentive gap.
      I spoke about it in detail in other threads. Without entry fees endless grindable rewards tend to be devalued.
      If its "just" gonna be cosmetics that doesnt make it better.


      P.S.
      Corinth vs. Corinth needs to be a 2 player queue. Wether its free or 100p to play for a pack is another question.
      But it really should be a queue. I really hope you are not messing this up. Something tells me otherwise though..
    • On the topic of bugs, I get that some bugs are not "ban the card" worthy. However in this day and age of technology I have a hard time believing that this information cannot be shared in game. I don't think just documenting the bugs in the forums is enough or proper. I don't know how hard it is to upgrade tooltips but could we at least get a temporary note in the tooltip of the card? That way it shows whenever anyone zooms on the card. (a quick warning about the bug and what happens, mentioning that you are currently working on a fix).

      As a player, I would be VERY happy to see this in the game I play. Saves me a ton of trouble and prevents a lot of very bad experiences of players discovering the bug. It also helps showing that you are taking ownership of the issue.

      Might not be easily doable with the way the software is structured right now but it seems that a few "tooltip box types" already exist. Maybe for a future release, giving yourself a space to add temporary messages in the cards tooltips for bugs or to warn about exploits would be a nice way to quickly communicate that information. Might even be done on server side without having to push any client side update! (in an ideal world).




      Related to the rewards topic, can't wait to see what comes out of it. Although I'm not quite sure what the appeal of having an alternate coin flip art be. Would that be something both players would see "changed" similar to how the battleboard currently works? (displays the same for both player, chosen at random among the non-default art available)

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    • I'm sorry, but I call foul on your definitions of exploits and bugs. Exploits are almost universally defined as something a player deliberately does to give themselves an advantage, not something that randomly occurs. What this says to me, is you're trying to pass the buck onto your players. That's why you make people drop from top 8's for something they may not even know is a bug. This is why you are losing players, and might very well lose me, one of your staunchest defenders. It's because you refuse to take responsibility for the state of the game. You refuse to admit that players are unhappy and your actions/lack thereof, are causing that unhappiness. It becomes more and more clear each day, that at least someone at HEX EN, has no idea what they are doing. We aren't falling for this crap anymore, and I think the recent sentiments on Reddit and the forums have made that very clear.

      Before someone says "you're just looking to complain." I LOVE THIS GAME WITH PASSION! It pains me deeply to see the community this divided, it hurts my soul to see "mixed" review status on the steam store front. I LOVE the new set, I think it's the best set they've ever dropped, and I cannot wait for Iconoclash mode. It makes me sick to have to rip the devs like this, but something needs to be done or this game can and will die. I've seen promising games like Shardbound and Infinity wars, die undignified deaths because of some of the same things HEX EN has done.

      There needs to be a meeting in house, to decide what in the heck you are going to do with this game, there needs to be a clear direction, there needs to be better quality control. If none of those things happens HEX will die, point blank, end of story, do not pass go do not collect 200 dollars.

      I know I'm a drop in the bucket, but if something doesn't change in the next couple months, I'm cashing my collection and leaving this game. I hate that idea, because I love being part of this community, and it's one of the best of any game I've been a part of. I mod a couple HEX streams, and I'm a regular in countless more. Giving that up would be like giving up a piece of myself, but I cannot continue to support a game, run by people who either don't or won't listen to it's fan base.


      Please HEX EN, prove me wrong. I've never wanted to be wrong more in my entire life, than on this front.
      -Signature deleted by Dino.- :P
    • This is clearly a step in the right direction. I appreciate the in-depth article regarding how you define bugs and why you make the decisions you make.

      Hex is a competitive game, and you knows which cards are more playable in competitive formats than others. And I believe you guys that the Palm of Granite bug must be specifically annoying and hard to tackle. If it took that long, it's not because you don't want to fix it or whatever.

      But, if there're meta-relevant cards that are bugged for a long period of time, another protocol should be used. As Metro said, maybe an in-client known list it's hard to code, and not necessary. Maybe even posting in the forums is the right call, but with a little more of info in a separate thread.

      To be fair, I don't remember another situation like this in a long time, so hopefully this might help towards the future. But sometime a timed "we're working on this card and it's a top priority" it's enough, and saying the same after a user complains because it loses a bash because of that it's too late.
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    • Hex TCG wrote:

      Our policy is thus inform and let players decide for themselves.
      Having a "known issues" list in a forum thread is a cop-out, if this is what you mean by "informing players." This should be much easier for the average user to find. Take advantage of the in-game broadcast system. Have Nobles advising in chat about high-profile bugs, like Palm.

      Include known issues in the Friday update. Hell, have a "known issues" tab on the MAIN PAGE (probable under Hex -- and Between "Hex Store" and "Legal Docs"

      This answer is going to go over as well as "you should have read your policy," does for me if I'm denying an auto claim.

      This article only exists in the first place because that communication hasn't been clear or available enough.

      On a happier note, thanks for the cosmetic spoilers. I want that battleboard!
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    • Thrawn wrote:

      Having a "known issues" list in a forum thread is a cop-out, if this is what you mean by "informing players." This should be much easier for the average user to find. Take advantage of the in-game broadcast system. Have Nobles advising in chat about high-profile bugs, like Palm.

      Include known issues in the Friday update. Hell, have a "known issues" tab on the MAIN PAGE (probable under Hex -- and Between "Hex Store" and "Legal Docs"
      They may not want to do this because doing so would constantly remind players that their software is buggy. They want to use the most prominent channels of communication to inform players about how great the game is, not about problems it has.
    • I am sure that everything you guys do, do it for a good reason and I am happy to see that this is openly discussed.

      I wanted to talk about something in this article and that is the broader system of cosmic coins (of whatever you want to call it)

      Its important to realize that adding cosmetics as rewards, if thats the only thing coins will do, will eventually be something that will be costly and time consuming.

      What I mean is, if you want those coins to be used for cosmic purchases, you will need enough cosmetics to be able to do a monthly or a 2 month rotation. You guys already rotate bash - clash just once every 8 month which is really bad (should be 4) and reset ladder every 2 months (should be one) so I am a little bit worried.

      You will eventually need to find a way to reward people without always having to invest into rotating stuff.

      I'll point as an example, another popular TCG where they came out with 2 other types of rewards. 1 as chests (with mostly old valuable cards) and the is a third currency that is non tradable and is rewarded in tournaments and the non tradable currency, altho not really well received, was a way to reward people without giving out the main currency.

      I'm not saying to do the same thing ( I bolded this because people are going to quote me saying that what I wrote is what Hex should do, but i was more pointed out it as examples) but it would be important that a system exists so that it can reward people and let them use that reward in multiple ways without costing Hex money to always to make stuff.

      Hope things come out as expected and the game can continue to be the best.
    • I have only 2 questions:


      I got my bash reimbursment request (would be 1-1 in round 1 in a favorable match up if it didn't occur) declined due to palm of granite bug is a know issue. What the actual . How am I supposed to find a random topic (is pinned, yet you need to scroll down to the bugs section) on a random forum (isn't linked from a client) if I'm a new and/or PS4 player?


      4/05 2am PT - ETA of servers going live with the following patch
      4/05 4am PT - palm bug reported
      4/05 3pm PT - palm bug addressed to the dev team
      If you check the patch notes, there were only few server side fixes, and the only one that could broke the palm is this: Mysteres de l’angoisse and other cards that use “play another card for free” now sends revealed cards to the correct zone (unless it was the Replipopper fix, but in this case we are doomed).
      Obviously some essential mechanics were touched and led to an appearance of a new bug.
      Why? WHY? WHYYYYY WAS IT SO HARD TO REVERT A SINGLE ING COMMIT?
    • Seems completely obvious to me that the policy for bugs and bans described this way is the logical, practical, expected and fair way.

      That new battleboard is awesome. I'm glad it's not another cheap rework of an existing board.
      "Ignorant beliefs are stains upon the mind."
    • There are a lot of complicated solutions to the communication issue ,but I feel the bare minimum would be having the client have a front and center link that directs to the known issues page, as well as a secondary link that is present when you enter a cash tournament. (for PS4 players this would still worka nd would bring up the console's browser)
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    • Mach wrote:

      Thrawn wrote:

      Having a "known issues" list in a forum thread is a cop-out, if this is what you mean by "informing players." This should be much easier for the average user to find. Take advantage of the in-game broadcast system. Have Nobles advising in chat about high-profile bugs, like Palm.

      Include known issues in the Friday update. Hell, have a "known issues" tab on the MAIN PAGE (probable under Hex -- and Between "Hex Store" and "Legal Docs"
      They may not want to do this because doing so would constantly remind players that their software is buggy. They want to use the most prominent channels of communication to inform players about how great the game is, not about problems it has.
      Shit still smells if you try to hide it under the rug...

      This excuse sounds like the explanation that was given to Arthur Dent when his house was about to be demolished.


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    • man...with siege and now cosmic coins rewarding worthless things? it always seem like cze fall short on what could be amazing. both the idea of siege and cosmic coins are great, but believe it or not, people need an incentive other than "for fun/cosmetics/nontradeable" when there's a cost behind these modes.

      cze need to release cosmic coin with a real incentive to grind them right away. dont even try to gauge players reaction or whatever like siege because i just know the priority for cosmic coins will get lower and lower after release. cze need to take feedback during the development of cosmic cosmic by teasing as much as they have completed/planned because i'd assume cosmic coin is a high priority right now and things can be done/fixed much quicker.