An elegant way to make Rares and Legendaries Cheaper: Sell Primal Packs

    • An elegant way to make Rares and Legendaries Cheaper: Sell Primal Packs

      Standard rares and legendaries are currently way too expensive. The reasons for this is probably some combination of: influx of new constructed players, less people playing limited, the tendency of players to hoard cards a bit more in a digital game(this is personal speculation here), the Auction House(grr), and other things you want to throw in here.

      Fixing the Auction House to be more betterer is a thing that should be done and will definitely help reduce prices by increasing the supply a little, but with the prices as disproportionate as they are, I'm not too convinced that fixing the Auction House, which is a thing that should absolutely be a high priority for the love of all that is holy(just emphasizing this point), is going to be the cure-all for overpriced singles.

      As well as an auction house fix, I suggest that (lets put some more emphasis here as it's the major point of this thread):
      HXE Starts selling the Primal Packs of all Standard Legal Sets for 800 Platinum each in the store

      This will help create an effective cap on the collective value of all rares and legendaries in a set, as if the average value of those cards is significantly higher than 800 platinum, then singles sellers will buy and crack packs until that's no longer the case. This also has the added side effect of offering a product that is much more tempting to players who have no interest in limited.
    • The auction house is definitely a big problem.

      I really think that Hex should just give two rares/legendaries per pack (I remember seeing this proposed here before) and stop printing resources at rare level (Grossly over-inflates deck prices when the resource base is half the deck value; even candles as the "cheap" competitive deck needs to shell out 40-50$ for Wax Sacraments?). I get it, Magic has rare lands and only one rare/mythic per pack, but we don't need to follow everything Magic does (especially now that Hex has hit 200$+ standard legal decks as the norm and with the competition on the horizon).
    • There is an effective cap on the collective value of all rares and legendaries, the 200 plat/booster price.
      Perhaps too pricey, i do not know.
      What i wonder is whether the elegance of selling primal packs for 800 plat and pushing value of a booster content well under 100 plat is an intentional punishment of limited players for opening too few packs.
    • AceBladewing wrote:

      If they just designed less shit rares and legendaries, then the good ones won't be so expensive.
      They did that. It's called Doombringer. It has it's crap rares for sure, they all do and they all will as long as sets are designed with limited in mind, which pushes bombs into the rare and legendary slots, and by human beings who are never perfect at evaluating cards, like that long thread on the previous board complaining that one of the two collector AAs for herofall was Animus of Nulzann AA.

      If anything the opposite would help. Most current competitive decks are composed mostly of rares and legendaries with candles being the major exception. If your average competitive deck only needs 8-10 rares and 4 legendaries then it's going to have a much lower price tag than the one that needs 30-40.

      Jiggs wrote:

      The auction house is definitely a big problem.

      I really think that Hex should just give two rares/legendaries per pack (I remember seeing this proposed here before) and stop printing resources at rare level (Grossly over-inflates deck prices when the resource base is half the deck value; even candles as the "cheap" competitive deck needs to shell out 40-50$ for Wax Sacraments?). I get it, Magic has rare lands and only one rare/mythic per pack, but we don't need to follow everything Magic does (especially now that Hex has hit 200$+ standard legal decks as the norm and with the competition on the horizon).
      Putting two rares/legendaries per pack is a possible solution, but it's one that will have to wait for the next set if you don't want to create a pile of complaints and that will do nothing to fix the current standard legal environment. Furthermore, this is a less definite solution than fixed primal pack pricing, which will lead to a large increase in supply from players looking to make plat whenever the average value of a primal pack is >800 plat.

      I also despise rare resources, mainly the remnant and well cycles, though most of the same cycle wax sacrament came from is actually ok, it's just that wax sacrament is so good that it goes well in all decks that have diamond cards instead of just those that illuminate. Rare resources that only go in niche decks are ok, it's when you have universal ones like threshold fixers or over powered gimmick ones which create pricey buy ins for your resource bases in standard formats that I take issue with.

      GryphonGardens wrote:

      There is an effective cap on the collective value of all rares and legendaries, the 200 plat/booster price.
      Perhaps too pricey, i do not know.
      Considering that about a week or so after it's launch I evaluated the average price of a Doombringer rare around 93.84 cents and the average price of a legendary was 330.588, and after devaluing a bit from these highs which got nowhere near the 200 plat price ceiling of packs, even after subtracting out all the extras, yes that is too pricey. A constructed environment that gets near that price ceiling would be far more expensive than the one we have now, probably by about double.

      GryphonGardens wrote:

      What i wonder is whether the elegance of selling primal packs for 800 plat and pushing value of a booster content well under 100 plat is an intentional punishment of limited players for opening too few packs.
      Anything that reduces the over-inflated prices of rares and legendaries to something more reasonable can be seen as "punishing" limited players. On the inverse you can also see it as removing the unintended bonus that limited players received from an influx of constructed players and an outflux, to some extent, of limited players. Also to this end, it won't hurt limited players as much as doubling the rares/legendaries in packs if the population starts to fluctuate in their favor, which would create a much bigger glut in the market thanks to the rare multiplier.

      The intended effect is to create an effective and permanent organic price control for standard. Nothing that's done to reduce the prices of decks below the unacceptable 15000-30000 plat price tag where they're currently at is not going to effect limited, though I'd say it's more a reduction back to normal reward levels after limited benefited from an unintentional market windfall.

      As an aside, 800 is intentionally aggressive in order to get prices in check. A higher price point, like somewhere between 1000-1200 would also probably work; and if it doesn't it can be tweaked down from there, especially if future sets push some of their constructed worthy cards down in rarity.
    • This may do what is needed, but I think there's better ways to address the problem:

      A.) Let Cosmic Coins buy account bound singles.

      AND

      B.) Sell a series of five 1,500p decks based on current meta. - Just look at what the collector deck did: Runebind went from 550p to 350p between Thursday and Saturday, while Eyes of the Heart went from 1,600p to 1,100p in the same time. And that's a collector deck that doesn't have nearly the same market demand as a meta-relevant constructed deck.

      Also, and I think this is a given: Stop printing rare resources. This is a no-brainer and I have not figured out why they are still being printed. Just stop. It's not hard, just don't do it. If the effect is so powerful that it needs to be rare, then the effect probably shouldn't be on the Resource card type. Fixing should not be rare.
    • StorrowN wrote:

      This may do what is needed, but I think there's better ways to address the problem:

      A.) Let Cosmic Coins buy account bound singles.
      I agree that this should be a thing for a completely different reason. As a matter of fact I would go so far as to say cosmic coins/crowns(whatever the name is) should either be able to:
      Purchase specific account bound singles
      OR
      Purchase random non-account bound rares and legendaries
      as the ladder badly needs a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow(that isn't CCS) for it's players to chase.

      StorrowN wrote:

      AND

      B.) Sell a series of five 1,500p decks based on current meta. - Just look at what the collector deck did: Runebind went from 550p to 350p between Thursday and Saturday, while Eyes of the Heart went from 1,600p to 1,100p in the same time. And that's a collector deck that doesn't have nearly the same market demand as a meta-relevant constructed deck.
      A will reduce demand in the market and help prices that way, but it will also increase interest in the ladder, which needs said cards to climb in the first place and may well end up spiking the prices, ironically. If the singles aren't account bound then this will almost certainly reduce prices as it will introduce a bit more supply, but again this is reliant on cosmic constructed activity much like how the current market is too reliant on limited activity. It also doesn't benefit new, casual or PVE players in any direct way, which selling primal packs definitely does.

      B has it's problems as well. Pushing out even a 4000 plat top tier decks for 2000 plat will crash singles prices fairly quickly and will upset anyone who bought the deck. This will also lead to players slowing down their singles purchases as it's more economic to wait for someone to win a few bashes and make the cards cheap. I do like this if it is done right, as selling constructed ready decks that are a value compared to the market price(say 2500-3000 plat worth of cards for 2000) is a great product for newer constructed players.

      Both of these combined will help get prices to somewhere reasonable(mostly B honestly), but they come with their own bag of issues if they're treated as the cure-all and selling Primal packs will keep singles at more consistently reasonable prices and avoid the market roller coasters that pushing out too many precon decks too quickly will cause.

      StorrowN wrote:

      Also, and I think this is a given: Stop printing rare resources. This is a no-brainer and I have not figured out why they are still being printed. Just stop. It's not hard, just don't do it. If the effect is so powerful that it needs to be rare, then the effect probably shouldn't be on the Resource card type. Fixing should not be rare.
      I'm just re-agreeing with the bold text. Seriously, rare threshold fixing resources is bad for the game.
    • AceBladewing wrote:

      If they just designed less shit rares and legendaries, then the good ones won't be so expensive.
      I understand what you mean (more good cards means more good strategies which in turn means more decks which in turn means people won't need the same 8 Rares/Legendaries to compete) but realistically you can't have more than 2 or 3 S+ tier decks anyway. Card prices of those will not be affected that much. Also, unless there is somehow the Perfect Balance between shards, introducing a bunch of excellent Rares and Legendaries will mean that the one or two shards which have the most (biggest number of great cards) will also make the best decks.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Vroengard ().