Rowdy/Ramp Issues

    • Rowdy/Ramp Issues

      is there a way to beat the current Rowdy build?
      So if you play a blitz-aggro deck, yeah sure. But what about control? Once Rowdy Piper resolves with open resources, its game over. Especially considering Dreamsmoke Diva has spellshield.
      This makes it very difficult, really impossible, for a non-sapphire control or any "fair" deck to slow, stop, or overpower the rowdy deck. Even sapphire control decks have to have enough open resources and probably 2 interrupt cards to take out the inevitable Runebind that stops your answer before the combo goes in full swing around turn 5 or 6.

      Massacre, Blight, Scars of War, or any other sweeper are just too slow considering that Runebind is a card.

      Same for any realistic target removal, minus Dreamsmoke Diva. The deck can respond with Treacherous Search and just combo off anyway.

      So that cuts it down to just mirror match, DW momentum, or aggro? Maybe a Sx control, if youre lucky enough to have good counterspells and resources to stop it for a single turn.

      On that note, fast and hard aggro is bad aggainst DW momentum, candles, and isnt even a surefire way to elude the unfun, frustrating combo-off of Rowdy.

      I cant be the only one who is highly tired of this deck already, right?

      Whats the best course of action for this?
      Deckbuilding to try to formulate a build that can handle it?
      Hoping there is some sort of ban to stunt the deck(s)?
      Waiting for Consult the Talons to rotate and also hope there isn't a valid replacement AND something to supplement agaisnt them?
      Quit playing forever because the R&D department let this slip through?
      Idk. I'm very frustrated. Suggestions?
    • "So that cuts it down to just mirror match, DW momentum, or aggro? Maybe a Sx control, if youre lucky enough to have good counterspells and resources to stop it for a single turn."

      I mean, you just gave four answers to beat the Rowdy Deck. Just because the 'slower' control type decks are the 'Rock' to Rowdy's 'Paper' doesn't make Rowdy overpowered. There are plenty of 'Scissor' decks out there.

      What you seem to be looking for is a Control deck that can beat any archetype. THAT would be an overpowered deck.

      I agree though, that it does suck when your favored archetype gets nerfed or overwhelmed by it's countertype. I'm still waiting for the next 'Aggro nerf' after Lazgar's Vengence and Haraza to ruin my fun. :P
    • If you visit Nico Sharp's Frost Ring Arena Deck Tier List you will find a bunch of good decks. Currently I am playing Succumb to Cyclops but this one is more budget friendly and wrecks FRA and that pesky Piper for fun. :)
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    • ReluxTheRelux wrote:

      AxelDWater wrote:

      If you visit Nico Sharp's Frost Ring Arena Deck Tier List you will find a bunch of good decks. Currently I am playing Succumb to Cyclops but this one is more budget friendly and wrecks FRA and that pesky Piper for fun. :)
      He is speaking of standard, Axel. (he also hasn't acccess to FRA as PS4 player).
      Woops (embarrassed face)
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      Find us on our Discord server or website!
    • [PSN]dump_cakes wrote:

      is there a way to beat the current Rowdy build?
      So if you play a blitz-aggro deck, yeah sure. But what about control? Once Rowdy Piper resolves with open resources, its game over. Especially considering Dreamsmoke Diva has spellshield.
      This makes it very difficult, really impossible, for a non-sapphire control or any "fair" deck to slow, stop, or overpower the rowdy deck. Even sapphire control decks have to have enough open resources and probably 2 interrupt cards to take out the inevitable Runebind that stops your answer before the combo goes in full swing around turn 5 or 6.

      Massacre, Blight, Scars of War, or any other sweeper are just too slow considering that Runebind is a card.

      Same for any realistic target removal, minus Dreamsmoke Diva. The deck can respond with Treacherous Search and just combo off anyway.

      So that cuts it down to just mirror match, DW momentum, or aggro? Maybe a Sx control, if youre lucky enough to have good counterspells and resources to stop it for a single turn.

      On that note, fast and hard aggro is bad aggainst DW momentum, candles, and isnt even a surefire way to elude the unfun, frustrating combo-off of Rowdy.

      I cant be the only one who is highly tired of this deck already, right?

      Whats the best course of action for this?
      Deckbuilding to try to formulate a build that can handle it?
      Hoping there is some sort of ban to stunt the deck(s)?
      Waiting for Consult the Talons to rotate and also hope there isn't a valid replacement AND something to supplement agaisnt them?
      Quit playing forever because the R&D department let this slip through?
      Idk. I'm very frustrated. Suggestions?
      Against SW turns based decks its simply put you have to answer piper and hope there isn't a second one if they can generally hit piper or sugar rush and you cant answer it at the time you lose. If you can you win. Or if they cant chain off enough to win the game its just like any other threat as a deck either you have it or you dont when the play goes off it comes down to that. Right now its basically:

      Tier 1
      DW Momentium
      WS Turns

      Tier 2
      Candles
      RSB Reanimator
      RSB Discard

      Tier 3
      Mono Blood
      Mono Ruby
      Rabid Raider

      Tier 4
      Everything Else

      Tier 2 and 3 decks can beat the tier 1 decks but the odds generally favor the tier 1 decks. Tier 4 decks will probably not get anywhere near the top 8 without alot of luck and very skilled players piloting them.
    • I feel like mono blood control should be excellent against this deck. It needs key pieces both spells in hand and dudes on the field. Disrupt either and it just dies on its own most times.

      If you think mono blood control isn't good enough to play that just means this deck isn't as big of an issue as you make it out to be.
    • [PSN]dump_cakes wrote:

      is there a way to beat the current Rowdy build?
      So if you play a blitz-aggro deck, yeah sure. But what about control? Once Rowdy Piper resolves with open resources, its game over. Especially considering Dreamsmoke Diva has spellshield.
      This makes it very difficult, really impossible, for a non-sapphire control or any "fair" deck to slow, stop, or overpower the rowdy deck. Even sapphire control decks have to have enough open resources and probably 2 interrupt cards to take out the inevitable Runebind that stops your answer before the combo goes in full swing around turn 5 or 6.

      Massacre, Blight, Scars of War, or any other sweeper are just too slow considering that Runebind is a card.

      Same for any realistic target removal, minus Dreamsmoke Diva. The deck can respond with Treacherous Search and just combo off anyway.

      So that cuts it down to just mirror match, DW momentum, or aggro? Maybe a Sx control, if youre lucky enough to have good counterspells and resources to stop it for a single turn.

      On that note, fast and hard aggro is bad aggainst DW momentum, candles, and isnt even a surefire way to elude the unfun, frustrating combo-off of Rowdy.

      I cant be the only one who is highly tired of this deck already, right?

      Whats the best course of action for this?
      Deckbuilding to try to formulate a build that can handle it?
      Hoping there is some sort of ban to stunt the deck(s)?
      Waiting for Consult the Talons to rotate and also hope there isn't a valid replacement AND something to supplement agaisnt them?
      Quit playing forever because the R&D department let this slip through?
      Idk. I'm very frustrated. Suggestions?
      I actually really like Consult the Talons , but gosh i just want that card to rotate out and hope that W/S infinite turns stop being a thing , the fact that you can play a card for cost 1,3 or 5 and rowdy up cards until 7 its insane , they should nerf mobilize+rowdy combo , but then again the real problem is sugar rush + eyes of the heart , sadly HEX loves this type of crazy combos to much to nerf it , we probablly gonna suffer for some sets until we get a consistent answear for it.
    • tribopower wrote:

      [PSN]dump_cakes wrote:

      is there a way to beat the current Rowdy build?
      So if you play a blitz-aggro deck, yeah sure. But what about control? Once Rowdy Piper resolves with open resources, its game over. Especially considering Dreamsmoke Diva has spellshield.
      This makes it very difficult, really impossible, for a non-sapphire control or any "fair" deck to slow, stop, or overpower the rowdy deck. Even sapphire control decks have to have enough open resources and probably 2 interrupt cards to take out the inevitable Runebind that stops your answer before the combo goes in full swing around turn 5 or 6.

      Massacre, Blight, Scars of War, or any other sweeper are just too slow considering that Runebind is a card.

      Same for any realistic target removal, minus Dreamsmoke Diva. The deck can respond with Treacherous Search and just combo off anyway.

      So that cuts it down to just mirror match, DW momentum, or aggro? Maybe a Sx control, if youre lucky enough to have good counterspells and resources to stop it for a single turn.

      On that note, fast and hard aggro is bad aggainst DW momentum, candles, and isnt even a surefire way to elude the unfun, frustrating combo-off of Rowdy.

      I cant be the only one who is highly tired of this deck already, right?

      Whats the best course of action for this?
      Deckbuilding to try to formulate a build that can handle it?
      Hoping there is some sort of ban to stunt the deck(s)?
      Waiting for Consult the Talons to rotate and also hope there isn't a valid replacement AND something to supplement agaisnt them?
      Quit playing forever because the R&D department let this slip through?
      Idk. I'm very frustrated. Suggestions?
      I actually really like Consult the Talons , but gosh i just want that card to rotate out and hope that W/S infinite turns stop being a thing , the fact that you can play a card for cost 1,3 or 5 and rowdy up cards until 7 its insane , they should nerf mobilize+rowdy combo , but then again the real problem is sugar rush + eyes of the heart , sadly HEX loves this type of crazy combos to much to nerf it , we probablly gonna suffer for some sets until we get a consistent answear for it.
      they literally just nerfed it, jeez

      the percentage of games the combo went off at 1-2 hp was pretty high vs aggros: yesterday i lost a game hit to hit in a bash; so did mtgcollector in his game 3 in the round 1 in top 8 of it

      limited-wise berry is butchered by +1 charge cost, -2 hp is constructed-aimed nerf
    • Shinshire wrote:

      tribopower wrote:

      [PSN]dump_cakes wrote:

      is there a way to beat the current Rowdy build?
      So if you play a blitz-aggro deck, yeah sure. But what about control? Once Rowdy Piper resolves with open resources, its game over. Especially considering Dreamsmoke Diva has spellshield.
      This makes it very difficult, really impossible, for a non-sapphire control or any "fair" deck to slow, stop, or overpower the rowdy deck. Even sapphire control decks have to have enough open resources and probably 2 interrupt cards to take out the inevitable Runebind that stops your answer before the combo goes in full swing around turn 5 or 6.

      Massacre, Blight, Scars of War, or any other sweeper are just too slow considering that Runebind is a card.

      Same for any realistic target removal, minus Dreamsmoke Diva. The deck can respond with Treacherous Search and just combo off anyway.

      So that cuts it down to just mirror match, DW momentum, or aggro? Maybe a Sx control, if youre lucky enough to have good counterspells and resources to stop it for a single turn.

      On that note, fast and hard aggro is bad aggainst DW momentum, candles, and isnt even a surefire way to elude the unfun, frustrating combo-off of Rowdy.

      I cant be the only one who is highly tired of this deck already, right?

      Whats the best course of action for this?
      Deckbuilding to try to formulate a build that can handle it?
      Hoping there is some sort of ban to stunt the deck(s)?
      Waiting for Consult the Talons to rotate and also hope there isn't a valid replacement AND something to supplement agaisnt them?
      Quit playing forever because the R&D department let this slip through?
      Idk. I'm very frustrated. Suggestions?
      I actually really like Consult the Talons , but gosh i just want that card to rotate out and hope that W/S infinite turns stop being a thing , the fact that you can play a card for cost 1,3 or 5 and rowdy up cards until 7 its insane , they should nerf mobilize+rowdy combo , but then again the real problem is sugar rush + eyes of the heart , sadly HEX loves this type of crazy combos to much to nerf it , we probablly gonna suffer for some sets until we get a consistent answear for it.
      they literally just nerfed it, jeez
      the percentage of games the combo went off at 1-2 hp was pretty high vs aggros: yesterday i lost a game hit to hit in a bash; so did mtgcollector in his game 3 in the round 1 in top 8 of it

      limited-wise berry is butchered by +1 charge cost, -2 hp is constructed-aimed nerf
      yeah the nerf on the berry knight was well deserved , and games are more balanced both in limited and constructed , but tbh it was never about the champion , people can now just use satyr instead and achive the same or even better results (the original rowdy+ramp combo or infinite turns as i like to call it was brewed by Ali with satyr after all , until he showed off the power of it with the berry knight) the nerf helped out in alot of scenarios but it doesn't make this combo strugle that much since there is other options , the way this deck is made you only have 2 options or you pray to have a strong early game hand with agro and defeat him before turn 4-5 most of the time or you play heavy control (most of the decks Suffocate against heavy control) and pretty much Deny all his win conditions until you win , that is not an healthy competive deck.
    • tribopower wrote:

      the way this deck is made you only have 2 options or you pray to have a strong early game hand with agro and defeat him before turn 4-5 most of the time or you play heavy control (most of the decks Suffocate against heavy control) and pretty much Deny all his win conditions until you win , that is not an healthy competive deck.
      Who gets to decide what a health competitive deck is?
    • Wolzarg wrote:

      tribopower wrote:

      the way this deck is made you only have 2 options or you pray to have a strong early game hand with agro and defeat him before turn 4-5 most of the time or you play heavy control (most of the decks Suffocate against heavy control) and pretty much Deny all his win conditions until you win , that is not an healthy competive deck.
      Who gets to decide what a health competitive deck is?
      Tell me yourself who decides that, do you think this is a healthy competitive deck ?
    • tribopower wrote:

      Wolzarg wrote:

      tribopower wrote:

      the way this deck is made you only have 2 options or you pray to have a strong early game hand with agro and defeat him before turn 4-5 most of the time or you play heavy control (most of the decks Suffocate against heavy control) and pretty much Deny all his win conditions until you win , that is not an healthy competive deck.
      Who gets to decide what a health competitive deck is?
      Tell me yourself who decides that, do you think this is a healthy competitive deck ?
      Usualy for competitive players healthy competitive deck is deck one can interact with, that isn't coin flip and doesn't include Burning Inquiry.
    • Morwath wrote:

      tribopower wrote:

      Wolzarg wrote:

      tribopower wrote:

      the way this deck is made you only have 2 options or you pray to have a strong early game hand with agro and defeat him before turn 4-5 most of the time or you play heavy control (most of the decks Suffocate against heavy control) and pretty much Deny all his win conditions until you win , that is not an healthy competive deck.
      Who gets to decide what a health competitive deck is?
      Tell me yourself who decides that, do you think this is a healthy competitive deck ?
      Usualy for competitive players healthy competitive deck is deck one can interact with, that isn't coin flip and doesn't include Burning Inquiry.
      You leave your burning inquiry hate out of this discusion you snob! I may have won a 2hg tournament with megrim combo way back in the day :P
    • Morwath wrote:

      tribopower wrote:

      Wolzarg wrote:

      tribopower wrote:

      the way this deck is made you only have 2 options or you pray to have a strong early game hand with agro and defeat him before turn 4-5 most of the time or you play heavy control (most of the decks Suffocate against heavy control) and pretty much Deny all his win conditions until you win , that is not an healthy competive deck.
      Who gets to decide what a health competitive deck is?
      Tell me yourself who decides that, do you think this is a healthy competitive deck ?
      Usualy for competitive players healthy competitive deck is deck one can interact with, that isn't coin flip and doesn't include Burning Inquiry.
      Thank you for your input Morwath couldn't have said better even with more words, decks that you can't interact with are not healthy and heavy control falls on that category, you can't do nothing unless playing the same model of the deck or praying that you are lucky and/or your opp gets unlucky
    • tribopower wrote:

      Morwath wrote:

      tribopower wrote:

      Wolzarg wrote:

      tribopower wrote:

      the way this deck is made you only have 2 options or you pray to have a strong early game hand with agro and defeat him before turn 4-5 most of the time or you play heavy control (most of the decks Suffocate against heavy control) and pretty much Deny all his win conditions until you win , that is not an healthy competive deck.
      Who gets to decide what a health competitive deck is?
      Tell me yourself who decides that, do you think this is a healthy competitive deck ?
      Usualy for competitive players healthy competitive deck is deck one can interact with, that isn't coin flip and doesn't include Burning Inquiry.
      Thank you for your input Morwath couldn't have said better even with more words, decks that you can't interact with are not healthy and heavy control falls on that category, you can't do nothing unless playing the same model of the deck or praying that you are lucky and/or your opp gets unlucky
      But you can interact with it in several ways in fact so its a healthy deck by your own standard than?
    • tribopower wrote:

      Morwath wrote:

      tribopower wrote:

      Wolzarg wrote:

      tribopower wrote:

      the way this deck is made you only have 2 options or you pray to have a strong early game hand with agro and defeat him before turn 4-5 most of the time or you play heavy control (most of the decks Suffocate against heavy control) and pretty much Deny all his win conditions until you win , that is not an healthy competive deck.
      Who gets to decide what a health competitive deck is?
      Tell me yourself who decides that, do you think this is a healthy competitive deck ?
      Usualy for competitive players healthy competitive deck is deck one can interact with, that isn't coin flip and doesn't include Burning Inquiry.
      Thank you for your input Morwath couldn't have said better even with more words, decks that you can't interact with are not healthy and heavy control falls on that category, you can't do nothing unless playing the same model of the deck or praying that you are lucky and/or your opp gets unlucky
      You can interact with control deck in serval ways, you can simply rush them down while playing fair deck, you can outvalue them, or disrupt their flow with discard or interrupts.