Pinned Doombringer Q&A Thread

    • Question for the rules affictionados: If I have Worldscar and Lord Blightbark in play and I play a Blightbark Burster, it goes in the chain and then gets interrupted, a Blightbark Burster still enters play. Does its trigger from Lord Blightbark happen exactly when that one enters play or when the chain is resolved and why? Does the order in which I played Lord Blightbark, Worldscar matter or change anything?
    • The troop has to actually enter play for Lord Blightbark to do anything. Blightbark triggers in response to the troop actually hitting the table, so the order of Worldscar and Lord Blightbark is not relevant. The LB trigger gets added to the chain after the troop or troops are already in play, so it (they) would have had to resolve out of the chain first in order for LB to "see" it (them).

      If the Burster had NOT been interrupted, I believe the order of resolution should go like this:

      1. You attempt to cast the Burster.
      2. Worldscar creates a copy of it on the chain, while original is still on the chain.
      3. The copy resolves. Original is still on the chain.
      4. Lord Blightbark triggers off the copy and opponent loses 3 life.
      5. Original Burster resolves.
      6. Lord Blightbark triggers off the original and opponent loses 3 life.

      There would be Pass Priority stops to move from 2 to 3, and again between 4 and 5 (4 and 6 happen without stops).
      --ossuary

      "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none."
      - Shakespeare, All's Well That Ends Well
    • Worldscar puts copies directly IN PLAY so there's no chain to resolve for the copied troop.

      Let me put it this way:

      Opponent at 3 Health, You at 1 Health.
      You have Worldscar and Lord Blightbark in play.
      You play Blightbark Burster.
      Your opponent interrupts it with a 1-cost Unhenge that he got from Runic Upheaval.
      Who wins?
    • Mmm... "when you play" triggers when the troop first goes on the chain. You draw a card from Archmage Wrenlocke even if the troop is interrupted (the draw already happened). Worldscar puts the troop directly into play (it summons it, it doesn't "play" it as in act like it was cast from your hand, otherwise Worldscar would infinitely recur off its own triggers), but it still goes on the chain and can be interrupted. If opponent had 2 interrupts they could interrupt both.

      Edit: wait, wait, you didn't mention the Runic Upheaval before. That actually resolves before the Burster copy does, because Worldscar WILL put the copy on the chain when you first attempt to play the original Burster. Opponent wins, because he deals lethal to you with Runic Upheaval'd Unhenge.
      --ossuary

      "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none."
      - Shakespeare, All's Well That Ends Well
    • Ossuary wrote:

      Lord Blightbark triggers off the copy and opponent loses 3 life.
      THIS is what I'm trying to create, yes. Unfortunately, for reasons I'm not sure about, it did not happen. However, the board state was slightly more complicated. If you like puzzles, here's what happened:

      I had Lord Blightbark, Worldscar, Locket of Reflection and Sylvan Springs in play and I had a Blightbark Burster in hand, none in the deck. I played the Blightbark Burster and it created an infinite loop creating a Burster in the deck, playing it and copying each played directly onto the board! However, the 3 damage from the 80something copies (before I had to Alt+F4) never came.

      Ossuary wrote:

      Edit: wait, wait, you didn't mention the Runic Upheaval before. That actually resolves before the Burster copy does, BECAUSE WORLDSCAR WILL PUT THE COPY ON THE CHAIN when you first attempt to play the original Burster. Opponent wins, because he deals lethal to you with Runic Upheaval'd Unhenge.
      (Emphasis mine) Are you sure about that? My Blightbark Bursters were put directly in play, not the chain. They are put in play, not create copy and play it for free. Am I not understanding the fine print of Worldscar?

      There was no interrupt and no runic upheaval, it was an example I thought of on the spot, trying to see the different "speed" (priority) of chain and put into play.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Vroengard ().

    • I will have to think about this in more detail to cover your whole scenario, but as to the bolded question, I am honestly not sure. Summoning should still go on the chain, giving you a chance to interrupt the summon as well, but I haven't worked with Worldscar a lot (I don't play much anymore because I hate this set and the way HexEnt has been treating us). It could put them directly into play without a chance to respond, but that is not my understanding of how summon works (also, the card could be bugged, so there's no telling without testing if "should" and "do" are the same in this scenario). :)

      I will test it when I get home from work and see what happens. :P
      --ossuary

      "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none."
      - Shakespeare, All's Well That Ends Well
    • The simple answer here is you're wrong on that Ossuary. Summons don't go on the chain.
      Just look at all the things that say, for example "Deathcry: Summon a Blightblossom."
      Have you ever seen a Blightblossom go on the chain?
      Merry caravan "summons" a random troop with cost equal to it's counters - have you ever seen one of those on chain?

      Summons, as Vroenguard says, go directly into play.

      Which, for his earlier example, means that if he plays a blightbark burster with worldscar and lord blightbark, his opponent will take 3 damage before having a chance to do anything, and will thus die if at 3 hp.

      Edit:

      You were probably thinking about the copy mechanic. What might have gotten you here is that, while cards like Periwinkle, Chimes of the Zodiac or Thunderfield Elder read "Copy it", Worldscar says "Summon a copy of it", with the keyword summon stating that the copy is put into play.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Assassin ().

    • Thoom wrote:

      It's not that summons don't go on the chain, it's that Worldscar is an untargeted, triggered ability, meaning both players autopass on it.
      How does this work in the infinite loop example above? Is there actually a second invisible chain? Are the triggers of Worldscar put into the chain and resolved immediately? Is it a visual bug to show the Bursters in play?

      Why don't the copied Bursters that are put in the field do 3 damage if they ARE resolved, even while the main chain with the infinite loop continues?
    • Every trigger uses the chain, but untargeted ones are automatically passed on by both players, and if both targeted and untargeted triggers are added to the chain simultaneously, the untargeted ones are moved to the end and resolve first.

      It's possible that the damage triggers are just sitting on the chain, waiting to be executed, but never do because more Locket/Springs triggers keep jumping ahead of them.
    • Vroengard wrote:

      I had Lord Blightbark, Worldscar, Locket of Reflection and Sylvan Springs in play and I had a Blightbark Burster in hand, none in the deck. I played the Blightbark Burster and it created an infinite loop creating a Burster in the deck, playing it and copying each played directly onto the board! However, the 3 damage from the 80something copies (before I had to Alt+F4) never came.

      Something fishy is going on. While mapping out trigger orders, I couldn't find any way to get the situation where you got Bursters onto the board but no damage from triggering its deathcry.

      Play order matters since you basically have three cards that all trigger when a troop is played.
      • First, if Locket resolves first, then no combo happens since Locket will look for a copy before Springs is able to put the duplicate into your deck. So Springs must resolve before Locket.
      • Second, if Worldscar would resolve after locket, you would never see troops enter the battlefield since the infinite loop with Springs and Locket will always take priority and put new triggers in front of the Worldscar trigger. So to see troops enter the board, Worldscar must resolve before Locket.
      • So that means we want the triggers to resolve in the following order: Worldscar, Springs, and then Locket. And here is where I'm a little fuzzy, but I think that means you should play the cards in reverse order: Locket, Springs, Worldscar to get the right ordering of triggers resolving.


      So here is where I'm stuck, if Bursters are entering the board from Worldscar, they should be triggering Lord Blightbark before anything else resolves. Here's what I think should be happening (assuming the cards are played in the ideal order)
      1. Play Blightbark Burster. It is on the chain.
        Three triggers put onto chain - Worldscar, Locket, and Springs. (Lord doesn't trigger since the troop is still on the chain and not in play.)
      2. Worldscar resolves. Puts a Burster into play.
        (Locket and Springs trigger still on chain) Deathcry trigger is put on chain through Lord Blightbark.
      3. Since the Deathcry trigger is put most recently on chain, it should resolve before other triggers and opponent should lose 3 HP.
      4. Springs resolves. Puts a Burster into deck. Locket resolves and plays the new Burster. The new Burster is on the chain.
        Three triggers put onto chain - Worldscar, Locket, and Springs.
      5. Repeat steps 2-5. Get stuck in an infinite loop, but opponent should be taking damage.



      So what am I missing???
      • Do "enters play" triggers not happen until all "when you play" triggers finish resolving? (I don't think so)
      • Is loss of life not updated until all triggers leave the chain? (It shouldn't.)
      • Is there some sort of visual bug going on?
      • Or am I misinterpreting some rule?
    • Thanks for the clarification Assassin, yes, you're right, I had forgotten the wording of Worldscar in my head and was thinking of it as "copy it," not "summon a copy." And as Thoom said, of course, since it's not targeted (it's every troop you play, not, for example, "summon a copy of target troop"), it just resolves immediately.

      So yeah, with Worldscar in play, you get a copy of the troop you're trying to play immediately, and there's nothing the opponent can do to stop that copy from hitting the board; even if they interrupt the original, the copy is already on the table. Worldscar is... actually a fair bit more powerful than I realized.

      Interesting!
      --ossuary

      "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none."
      - Shakespeare, All's Well That Ends Well