Pinned Doombringer Q&A Thread

    • attt wrote:

      Rebirth again:

      Are you changing the text on old cards to Rebirth (like Elder of Lost Ages)?

      so what is going on with Whisker of Azathroth then?
      Whisker would have to remain as his effect is unique but the other two could be changed to rebirth as long as there are no cards that specifically care about rebirth as a keyword making them stronger as a result.
    • This was brought up in the comments for Burgle's article today and because I love doing terrible things to my opponents, I wanted to check before investing:

      Let's say I have silent auctioneer on the field and drew my whole deck with absolute power. My opponent has 4 Robogoyle in their deck.

      I discard to hand size at the end of turn, does it work like this:
      I discard a card, they mill Robogoyle
      Robogoyle triggers, they put cards back
      I discard another card to continue to go down to 7

      OR does it work like this:

      I discard a card, they mill Robogoyle
      I continue to discard down to 7
      Robogoyles trigger after I'm at 7 all at once

      Inquiring minds wish to know

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Blitzkind ().

    • Wolzarg wrote:

      Whisker would have to remain as his effect is unique but the other two could be changed to rebirth as long as there are no cards that specifically care about rebirth as a keyword making them stronger as a result.
      Given that they didn't change previous 'when this readies' to diligence, I doubt they'll change old ones to rebirth.

      Tireless Researcher
      Gamer. Streamer. Photographer. Writer. Anime Lover. Possessor of Stuffed Animals.

      Also... I'm terrible at this game.
    • Eraia wrote:

      Wolzarg wrote:

      Whisker would have to remain as his effect is unique but the other two could be changed to rebirth as long as there are no cards that specifically care about rebirth as a keyword making them stronger as a result.
      Given that they didn't change previous 'when this readies' to diligence, I doubt they'll change old ones to rebirth.
      Tireless Researcher
      i'm pretty sure they simply overlooked it (there are only 2 cards w/ it, and one is pve)
      however, they updated old cards with introducing of deploy/deathcry/stun keywords - Menacing Gralk

      however, as you can see in the new meachnics article, rebirth doesn't equal 1-shot: deathcry, since it can be both triggered and resolved only from the crypt, while deathcry doesn't require a specific zone for the troop to be in => text can't be changed
    • As a more general rule, old cards seem to only get updated with new keyword templating if the new keyword is a core keyword. Rebirth looks like it's going to be tied to the 9/10 block for the moment.

      Wolzarg wrote:

      Whisker would have to remain as his effect is unique but the other two could be changed to rebirth as long as there are no cards that specifically care about rebirth as a keyword making them stronger as a result.
      This part doesn't matter as much. It's fine if an old effect gets keyworded and the cards that have it become stronger, because the new cards could always be templated in a more awkward way like "Your cards with Rebirth or 'Deathcry - If this is in your crypt, put this into play' have +1/+1." or whatever.

      As long as templating revisions don't significantly change what a card would have done in the context of its own set, IMO they should be free to go as heavy as they want on them for the sake of clarity.
    • Shinshire wrote:

      however, they updated old cards with introducing of deploy/deathcry/stun keywords - Menacing Gralk
      Deploy/Deathcry/Stun were new 'standard' templating. Diligence/Rebirth - I believe - were intended to be only for a specific block.

      Looks like Thoom beat me to it.
      Gamer. Streamer. Photographer. Writer. Anime Lover. Possessor of Stuffed Animals.

      Also... I'm terrible at this game.
    • So I have 2 questions:1st: Should Kaleidotron lose its restrictions in limited? sinc its a bit Jankbot like and its hard enough to get 26 playables in a deck not to mention that 25 are prosmatic + the bot.

      2nd: Playing Double down while having a Grapes of Wrath out.
      If i understand it right first the when u play trigger (rowdy) should resolve and then the card effect should occure.
      So a 0/1 Grape should become a 1/2 and then a 2/4, first rowdy then card effect.
      Current game result is a 1/2 Grape and then a 1/3.
      So Double Down grabs the stats at the time of play and not of resolving, which makes no sense since all stats should be even after you Double them.
      Its in the card name.
      Or am I completly on the wrong track here?
      Btw Love this combo in limited since turning 5/6 into a 11/13 is still amazing.
    • Question about Raucous Revelry. When I use it and it triggers rowdy, that troop's cost is two after resolution, not one. I'm wondering if that's how it should be working and if so why? Because I thought it worked like this:

      1) Cast RR, trigger rowdy from something, increase cost of Rowdy card
      2) RR resolves, lowering the cost of the rowdy back to 1

      I'm guessing I'm wrong, but I just wanted to clarify
    • Spit wrote:

      Will Feral Formulation trigger if you don't have 2 cards to discard? So if you cast this with 0 cards left in hand, will you still draw 3 cards?

      Or how about other cards like Death Toll?
      Hey Spit

      Feral Formulation with no other cards in hand is a combo :). Basically, the discard is not an additional cost, and instead an effect when the card resolves. Therefore, if you don't have any cards to discard, you get out of that penalty. The way to note this is that the card doesn't say "As an additional cost" or "If you do (in a trigger).

      NOTE:

      I was out for personal reasons the past two days, getting back into these shortly and will respond to every question in this thread that I can today!

      ~Corey Burkhart
    • attt wrote:

      Rebirth again:

      Are you changing the text on old cards to Rebirth (like Elder of Lost Ages)?

      so what is going on with Whisker of Azathroth then?
      We won't be, but this is a good question, there's a few reasons for this:

      1) They're not functionally the same. They're very similar, but with a few key differences.
      The first being that you can have the "One-Shot" power multiple times, and with rebirth you cannot.
      The second being that Rebirth requires the troop be in the crypt upon resolution, therefore the Rebirth power is not eaten up by something like Lord Blightbark's power. We wanted to make sure that the Blightbarks then and now didn't conflict with one another.
      The third reason is the flavor. The blightbarks are all about life and Death, but they're more Undead, Plants, and at the helm an Elf and a Vampire. The Coyotle story doesn't really mesh into this very well, despite the Coyotle having their own beliefs about life here on Entrath and the life beyond.

      Whisker - No, this is a really special power. Changing this into Rebirth wouldn't really make sense rules-wise as while it's in the same vein, it would need to be like Rebirth with 8-shot. Again, not on flavor, and not functionally the same either.

      Blitzkind wrote:

      This was brought up in the comments for Burgle's article today and because I love doing terrible things to my opponents, I wanted to check before investing:

      Let's say I have silent auctioneer on the field and drew my whole deck with absolute power. My opponent has 4 Robogoyle in their deck.

      I discard to hand size at the end of turn, does it work like this:
      I discard a card, they mill Robogoyle
      Robogoyle triggers, they put cards back
      I discard another card to continue to go down to 7

      OR does it work like this:

      I discard a card, they mill Robogoyle
      I continue to discard down to 7
      Robogoyles trigger after I'm at 7 all at once

      Inquiring minds wish to know

      Wow awesome question Blitzkind. I honestly am unsure how the engine is treating this, but to verify, this is how it should work:

      1) You discard ALL necessary cards during the discard step of your end phase. If you have 50 cards, you discard 43 in PvP or 40 in PvE.
      2) Any triggers that occur will be added to the chain.
      3) We resolve the untargetted triggers - Silent Auctioneer one at a time.
      4) We bury 1 or more Robogoyles, they trigger after entering the crypt, and are untargetted. Therefore, they can "weave" in between the Silent Auctioneer triggers.


      Thus, in the scenario you've listed out, we should observe the second world. Note, this happens during the discard phase, such that they go until "This turn" will have their duration end during that phase. A card like Rune Ear Elite would fit this example.

      Eraia wrote:

      Wolzarg wrote:

      Whisker would have to remain as his effect is unique but the other two could be changed to rebirth as long as there are no cards that specifically care about rebirth as a keyword making them stronger as a result.
      Given that they didn't change previous 'when this readies' to diligence, I doubt they'll change old ones to rebirth.
      Tireless Researcher
      Good call Eraia, this is one that I have really considered updating however, as there's nothing that did "Give a random Diligence power" or "Ready all troops with Diligence" we never tried to call out this keyword, so Tireless Researcher is one that we could update if we wanted to I believe (Unless there's a PvE card/mercenary or equipment I'm not thinking of).
    • Shinshire wrote:

      Eraia wrote:

      Wolzarg wrote:

      Whisker would have to remain as his effect is unique but the other two could be changed to rebirth as long as there are no cards that specifically care about rebirth as a keyword making them stronger as a result.
      Given that they didn't change previous 'when this readies' to diligence, I doubt they'll change old ones to rebirth. Tireless Researcher
      i'm pretty sure they simply overlooked it (there are only 2 cards w/ it, and one is pve)however, they updated old cards with introducing of deploy/deathcry/stun keywords - Menacing Gralk

      however, as you can see in the new meachnics article, rebirth doesn't equal 1-shot: deathcry, since it can be both triggered and resolved only from the crypt, while deathcry doesn't require a specific zone for the troop to be in => text can't be changed
      Spot on Shinshire, we just haven't looked into this cleanup yet. It is however, now on my list.


      Artic wrote:

      I think rebirth is:

      one shot: deathcry - if this is in your crypt, put it into play

      The bolded part is missing from Elder of Lost Ages.
      Correct Artic, nice work pointing this out, as before, this is why we cannot make Elder of Lost Ages or Whisker of Azathoth have Rebirth.

      Thoom wrote:

      As a more general rule, old cards seem to only get updated with new keyword templating if the new keyword is a core keyword. Rebirth looks like it's going to be tied to the 9/10 block for the moment.

      Wolzarg wrote:

      Whisker would have to remain as his effect is unique but the other two could be changed to rebirth as long as there are no cards that specifically care about rebirth as a keyword making them stronger as a result.
      This part doesn't matter as much. It's fine if an old effect gets keyworded and the cards that have it become stronger, because the new cards could always be templated in a more awkward way like "Your cards with Rebirth or 'Deathcry - If this is in your crypt, put this into play' have +1/+1." or whatever.
      As long as templating revisions don't significantly change what a card would have done in the context of its own set, IMO they should be free to go as heavy as they want on them for the sake of clarity.
      Fantastic Point Thoom. I would say, in general, our team also is on the side of retroactively updating things into new/updated keywords when we can consolidate things into new things. When there are some differences like Rebirth and Deathcry, they need to be different. But you bring up a good point, it does also lead to potential odd templatings/cards like "All your troops with Deathcries get +1/+1" or "Troops with Rebirth get three random <b>Boons</b>." Once we do stuff like this, if the differences between the two cannot be consolidated (In this case, we want them to be different) then we need to leave them as two. But yes, in general, we love updating old stuff, see Tireless Researcher like Eraia brought up :). Looking into potentially updating that for the future now.
    • Eraia wrote:

      Shinshire wrote:

      however, they updated old cards with introducing of deploy/deathcry/stun keywords - Menacing Gralk
      Deploy/Deathcry/Stun were new 'standard' templating. Diligence/Rebirth - I believe - were intended to be only for a specific block.
      Looks like Thoom beat me to it.
      Rebirth is certainly a flavor thing. I'm not sure where we landed on Diligence. I can see Tireless Researcher being updated, but it's possible it's too heavily ingrained into thematics that it should be left isolated to the Herofall/Scars of War timeline.

      Biz wrote:

      if eternal curator gets some additional deploy abilities (eg. major sapphire bury gem from titania's majesty), what order do the deploy effects happen in?
      Hey Biz! This question is a really good one, as it can be somewhat complicated depending on the exact wording and timing of all the power (Usually triggered powers) involved.

      In this case, both the powers are untargeted Deploy powers. Therefore, they trigger at the same time (When this enters play (Deploy)) and because they're untargeted, aren't responded to by the champions, thus, we just follow time stamp order. In this case, the order in which they're written on the card is their triggering order.

      Thus:
      Trigger 1: Deploy - Void all Duplicates.
      Trigger 2: Deploy - Bury equal to combined Stats.

      Resolution order is reversed in terms of how they're added to the chain:

      Trigger 2 resolves - Buries 14 cards.
      Trigger 1 resolves - Voids all duplicates in the enemy deck.


      Assassin wrote:

      If I play chasing the rainbow on turn 2 and rowdy piper on turn 3 and then a 4 drop on turn 4, will my resources be 4/5 or 5/5 afterwards?
      I assume the former, and in order for it to work I'd have to play piper first and chasing second - is that correct?
      Hey Assassin, another great question here, involving time stamps and trigger order.

      So both of the cards in question Chasing the Rainbow and Rowdy Piper have the same trigger point, Rowdy! Therefore, we'll be looking to see if we play a card with cost > the current cost of the card.

      On turn 2, you have 2/2, and play Chasing the Rainbow.
      On turn 3, you have 3/3 and play Rowdy Piper, Triggering Chasing the Rainbow, giving you 0/1. Thus, you go -> 0/3 -> 0/4
      On turn 4, you have 4/4 and play a 4 cost card. This triggers both of your cards in play, in the order in which their triggers were added to the trigger zone for the triggering order (Time-stamp order). Thus, the first trigger is chasing the rainbow. The second trigger is Rowdy Piper. This is because Chasing the Rainbow was in the Warzone first, thus, it triggers first. Similar to the order of multiple triggers on a card.

      Thus:
      Trigger 1 - Rowdy - Chasing the Rainbow, gain 0/1
      Trigger 2 - Rowdy - Rowdy Piper, replenish Resource points.

      Resolution:
      Trigger 2 - Rowdy - Rowdy Piper, Replenishes resource points from 0/4 -> 4/4
      Trigger 1 - Rowdy - Chasing the Rainbow, gain 0/1 from 4/4 -> 4/5.

      Hope this helps clear that situation up! Just remember, that similar to how you spotted the order of triggers on a card, think of the trigger zone like a single card. It learns powers as cards enter play. And forgets them as they leave play. It remembers it's "Cards and Powers" it just doesn't have it written down as clearly as a single card we read does, but that the order is added and removed as new cards come and go.
    • MrBlei wrote:

      So I have 2 questions:1st: Should Kaleidotron lose its restrictions in limited? sinc its a bit Jankbot like and its hard enough to get 26 playables in a deck not to mention that 25 are prosmatic + the bot.

      2nd: Playing Double down while having a Grapes of Wrath out.
      If i understand it right first the when u play trigger (rowdy) should resolve and then the card effect should occure.
      So a 0/1 Grape should become a 1/2 and then a 2/4, first rowdy then card effect.
      Current game result is a 1/2 Grape and then a 1/3.
      So Double Down grabs the stats at the time of play and not of resolving, which makes no sense since all stats should be even after you Double them.
      Its in the card name.
      Or am I completly on the wrong track here?
      Btw Love this combo in limited since turning 5/6 into a 11/13 is still amazing.
      Hey MrBlei,

      This was something we discussed for Kaleidotron, as it's very very difficult to play this card in limited as written. We didn't want to create the two different rules and have the excess text on the card and instead made it this card that's really tricky to play in limited play. It's something we'd love feedback on when it comes to designs like these. We have a number of them, but finding the best execution of them from a UI/UX and their play-ability is something we're learning more about for many different types of play.

      2nd:

      So this is odd. I'll look into this, as I see what you're talking about occurring as well, but according to the code I see, I don't believe this should be happening.

      As you said we have:
      Grapes of Wrath + Double Down.

      Play double Down.
      Grapes of Wrath triggers Rowdy
      Grapes of Wrath grows 0/1 ->1/2
      Double Down Resolves.
      Grapes of Wrath -> 1/3 (+0/+1)

      Expected:
      Play double Down.
      Grapes of Wrath triggers Rowdy
      Grapes of Wrath grows 0/1 ->1/2
      Double Down Resolves.
      Grapes of Wrath -> 2/4 (+1/+2)

      This usually comes at the cost of the card not retroactively checking the stats on card when it resolves, and only checking them on playing. Thus, I'm looking at is it recalculating the stats of the target upon resolution, and the effect of double down says that it does, but clearly it does not (For reference, this is not improving if you have an Embertongue Skarn out either. It will get +0/+3 instead of +1/+3). Similarly, if I Wild Growth a troop in response, say a Wild Child the wild child is only getting +2/+2 not +5/+5.

      Thus, this is a bug. I'll kick this over to the EG team and take a look at it with them. Thank you for finding this! Sorry if this ruined any of your fun making giant Grapes and other friends! Stoked you like the card though. It's a really sweet one I think!

      Blitzkind wrote:

      Question about Raucous Revelry. When I use it and it triggers rowdy, that troop's cost is two after resolution, not one. I'm wondering if that's how it should be working and if so why? Because I thought it worked like this:

      1) Cast RR, trigger rowdy from something, increase cost of Rowdy card
      2) RR resolves, lowering the cost of the rowdy back to 1

      I'm guessing I'm wrong, but I just wanted to clarify
      Hey Blitzkind,

      Raucous Revelry, should be applying AFTER the Rowdy trigger. However, similar to Assassin's issue, the effect is going off, almost seemingly after the card resolves. Thus, this is a bug. The Raucous Revelry, upon resolution should make all your cards with rowdy have cost of 1.

      The chain should look like:

      1) Play RR.
      2) Trigger of Rowdy (Say Grapes of Wrath)

      Resolution order:

      1) Rowdy on Grapes of Wrath - 1/2 cost 2.
      1) RR - Grapes of Wrath - 1/2 cost 1.

      Adding this to the EG's plate, I'll work with them to figure this one out as well. Sorry ab out this Blitzkind.