PVE Card Updates – Siege Launch Patch

    • The mill deck is still good for the arena. It isn't god tier, but it still has a decent chance.

      Why should the best deck for arena also be the cheapest? I believe new players should be able to play campaing and FRA, but should they be able from the get go get the best deck? What would the point be?
      It also devalues every loot you get from FRA, since anyone can get it so easily.

      The nerf was expected for a long time, one deck to beat them all is unhealthy for the whole enviroment. What would the chalange in FRA even be, if as a new player, you could just get THE best deck right away?

      The emphasis should be put into making some of the chalanges easier, so that even weaker decks have a slight chance (not saying easy win).

      And the god tier decks should be something you want to build to. The cards shouldn't be easy to obtain.


      In the past I saw the slaughtergear decks as something I wanted to have so much. As a F2P player I played so much and gave a lot to get them. And just after a weak after obtaining my last Replicator, the slaughtergears were nerfed. Just imagine that for a change. Reavers were going for almost 3000p and Replicators for about 2000p...
      Those cards were hard to obtain and once I got them, it felt so good (only for a week, though).


      And there are few cheap decks, that do fairly good in the arena, but they got overshadowed by the mill deck so much...
    • I'm guilty of being one of the people who plays T-mill in arena. Not because i don't have or can't afford anything else but because it's what i feel most comfortable with when i run into Zakiir or Urunaaz. When Arena 2.0 first came out i was gladly going through playing a slaughtergears/empress deck until the first time i ran into Zakiir. I lost the coin flip and was kicking Zak's ass and had it dead on my next turn until turn 4 when he played some power of zakiir card that straight up destroyed all artifacts and thus i lost. That's when i jumped on the T-mill wagon and beat the encounter the other times i faced it.

      TLDR; I don't care about getting perfect clears in the arena, i just care about beating Zakiir and Urunaaz when i get them. So which deck has the best chance against those 2 after the T-mill nerfs?

      Thanks
    • StonedViper wrote:

      NicoSharp wrote:

      I would say Ruin of Ripplewood control... but....
      There are quite a few decks good for the dragons.
      Plants/Verdict/Reginald/etc.
      Wow that was a quick reply. Thanks!
      Now i'm not in the loop, is there place to find these good lists?...lol
      [Blocked Image: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/269256254415699968/416055441777491988/unknown.png]
      [Blocked Image: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/269256254415699968/416055639434067968/unknown.png]
      [Blocked Image: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/269256254415699968/416056262795722752/unknown.png]
      [Blocked Image: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/269256254415699968/416056424213250048/unknown.png]RIP old friend (Still likely good, but that Ruin of Ripplewood nerf... sad):
      [Blocked Image: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/269256254415699968/416056620242698241/unknown.png][Blocked Image: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/269256254415699968/416056954935312384/unknown.png]

      Can find most things on Wardens Discord, or my FRA Tier List guide on forums, although some of these are undocumented citizens.
    • Wolzarg wrote:

      Getting real tired of everyone whining that the lowest of low hanging fruit was removed. We get it you can't be bothered to make a deck of your own and now the list you copied is no longer viable.
      No its about them saying they will create a banlist just for the Siege part of Hex, and then instead of using that banlist, instead make cards so much weaker no one will play them when trying to optimize FRA runs.
    • Needle wrote:

      No its about them saying they will create a banlist just for the Siege part of Hex, and then instead of using that banlist, instead make cards so much weaker no one will play them when trying to optimize FRA runs.
      Balancing cards is something a lot of us have been asking for for a long time in pve. The task isn't complete with just these changes, but it's a step in the right direction. Now they just need to tone down a bit of the hate in FRA...


      but please don't discourage them from making important balance tweaks in PvE. It's really important and really good for the game overall.
      Gamer. Streamer. Photographer. Writer. Anime Lover. Possessor of Stuffed Animals.

      Also... I'm terrible at this game.
    • Eraia wrote:

      Needle wrote:

      No its about them saying they will create a banlist just for the Siege part of Hex, and then instead of using that banlist, instead make cards so much weaker no one will play them when trying to optimize FRA runs.
      Balancing cards is something a lot of us have been asking for for a long time in pve. The task isn't complete with just these changes, but it's a step in the right direction. Now they just need to tone down a bit of the hate in FRA...

      but please don't discourage them from making important balance tweaks in PvE. It's really important and really good for the game overall.
      good for who? It most certainly isn't good for pve players... nerfs and changes only affect the ceiling the pve cards could ever sell for which is actually a negative.

      Does it really hurt you that much that a deck is better than other decks?
    • Look at all those nice expensive decks that no new player or F2P player is gonna get. Except, maybe, from the Verdict one the rest have

      Triolith
      Juurdin
      Mightsinger
      Rune-Ear Hierophant
      Cassandra

      and I'm not even including the equipment prices.
    • Vroengard wrote:

      I love being so right, I love it. And the results are coming in even faster than I anticipated. Keep it coming, you, I want to read more when I wake up tomorrow.

      On a more serious matter, the FRA being THE endgame means that the nerfs are needed so the best and most consistent decks have to actually be correctly priced. Terrormill allowing to make such huge profits for nothing was bad for the economy and HXE. Now people will have to have high end decks.

      Anyone that doesn't want that can go back to the Camp-BWAHAH, I almost managed to keep a straight face there.

      Yea, no, this sucks for every new or F2P player. But it's also what we deserve. It was obvious by the no way to farm Gold for PS4 that the game was heading that way.
      yes keep it coming to show how bad spirit you have and toxic you are.
    • That was not his question @Vroengard. Pointing out the obvious does not prove any points.
      "Farming" challenging PvE content, that requires owning cards worth money, to be able to acquire gold, and cards that sell for money... seems to make sense to the majority of the people that understand the HEX economy.

      Terrormill was low hanging fruit for everyone, but it was not intentionally designed to be a combination of things deliberately put in the game to allow free-to-play players easy access to a gold treadmill. I exposed it very early, and widely shared it, for everyone's benefit that entered the game with no money.. Probably not the best thing to profess tbh, to the chagrin of HEXes long term health.

      If people want to mindlessly farm gold, on a shoestring budget, they can buy a single xocoy and some fateweave shards and enter the campaign. You will freemium way faster than you ever could in the Frost Ring Arena.

      My point is.... People don't really care about the need to nerf cards that are obviously in a bad place balance wise. They want their wet blanket at bed-time, and it doesn't matter what the long-term negatives are for allowing them to have it. The perceived value of cards is just another crazy mind-game people need to wrestle with as it relates to a TCG, where they can trade for anything they want. 100 dedicated hours in HEX could buy you the best PvE deck, if you focus on only obtaining what you want with every farming hour. Someone could play this game for 4 years, and still poorly translate what it means to have full trade, because they get distracted by shiny lights at every turn, then poorly communicate their frustration with not being able to obtain what they want because they keep paying for the shiny lights and don't chase a focused goal.

      People need to blame what is their personal real life problem. Their inability to manage their addiction.
      It is unfortunate that most people do not understand what TCG means, as the digital comparisons are CCG, and hardly anyone buys into a marketing model that requires continual investment of either time or money for a relatively low amount of new content, that materializes in the form of single cards they can click on.

      The post was edited 3 times, last by NicoSharp ().

    • my two cents from a guy who dont play pve ( never try FRA 2.0, did not even complete AZ2, and will certainly not touch Siege over than just testing it). So...

      1/ FRA is designed to give player a high level challenge in deckbuilding and strategy. This game mode is not meant to be a farm field for f2p player.

      2/ f2p gold farmers are meant to run over and over boring campaign dungeons with mind-numbling decks. This is the cost to pay to be able to compete in a f2p way the end-level content of the game (pvp, FRA and soon Siege)... in a game not built with high level content f2p in mind.
      The intended result : Hex is not a f2p game in its competitive aspect, it never was and it will never be. The gate to reach it is several hundred hours of boring gameplay only a very few f2p players have the dicipline to acheive. Certainmy less than 10 % of the player base when it is the other way around in f2p mainstream CCG ( less than 10 % are paid players)

      3/ So players who complain about the nerf with FRA in mind as a grind field are absolutly not within their rights. The place for theses players are in dungeon with hundreds decks at their disposale, some very very cheap, to fill their pocket with gold.

      4/ the nerf of pve card, aside from balancing Siege, allow to reset FRA as it is meant to be : not a gold field for net decker without imagination, but a field where you master deckbuilding and high strategy.

      5/ this is why you dont see pve deckbuilders specialist complaining here. Because for them the nerf is just a new challenge for their deckbuilding hobby.

      The post was edited 3 times, last by Gregangel ().

    • SpRaCe wrote:

      Wolzarg wrote:

      Getting real tired of everyone whining that the lowest of low hanging fruit was removed. We get it you can't be bothered to make a deck of your own and now the list you copied is no longer viable.
      After viewing this thread and few others, I see that this kind of condescending attitude is widespread in the community. And then people wonder why the game is losing players. Not everyone is able or willing to make a new deck when the cheap one they had was nerfed so much. Many PVE players don't have collection or gold or plat to make decks capable of consistently beating FRA. And I doubt many players would want to spend dozens of hour farming campaign so they could make deck to farm FRA.
      I though PVE was supposed to be mode of play available for new/casual/F2P players who will then hopefully join PVP. I understand that Arena should be difficult, but at this point it's just frustrating and overtuned. Changing the original FRA into the current one was already questionable decision and now they nerf the only affordable deck for players with limited collections. And as if that wasn't enough they nerfed the one card that made many other decks viable.

      After dissapointing realization that multiplayer along with other PVE functions will likely never be implemented, I was happy when I read about Siege because I knew I had at least something that could beat the best PVP decks. I understood that it will be nerfed because it was a bit ridiculous, but I didn expect for them to completly destroy it.

      I understand the position of most of the remaining players. The have spent money, they have big collection and so they are happy that the won't have to face the same deck over and over again. They can make any deck they want and enjoy the game. Others? Who cares, right? If we want to enjoy the game we should spend money or farm. However the problem is that there is nothing enjoyable left. I am also sure that many people would laugh at the idea of buying/farming expensive decks just to be able to farm FRA with its current rewards.
      The only effort 99.5% of players putt into terrormill was copying the list if you don't have the energy to do that again i have zero sympathy for you. I'm not even saying all those nerfs to the same deck was justified but calling me elitist for daring to suggest there are other decks out there is ridiculus i have built like 4 budget decks and posted them but none wanted to use them because they didn't have the same efficiency terrormill had. Which GASP big surprise was too f**** efficient.

      I was one of a few people breaking thonia wide open guess what it needed a nerf badly i even contacted hex to let them know that. So don't talk to me about how poor you have to do all the hard work of copying someone elses list again. All the players crying about terrormill are 98% people who are too lazy to build anything of their own and 2% the poor people who putt a lot of resources into building it just now and sadly get a bit screwed.
    • Yes you are a great deck builder Wol.
      Maybe more would play your decks if your BM in limited chat was not so legendary? :P
      Your percentages are cute, but fluffy-land make believe.

      People failing to cope with these changes right now are not deck builders. However, even as deck builders, we have a right to be vocally annoyed by some of the changes.

      In all honesty, I don't think Phenteo's Gift, or mill are going anywhere, they are just requiring minor tweaks for consistency. Maybe turn 5 or 6 mill, vs. turn 4 - and that may kill them in fishbowl mode, if they do not pack removal, or other ways to mitigate their opponents. People will gravitate to the easiest most efficient things in life. It's only natural because people were using FRA as a farming platform for value, not an entertainment platform for fun. HEX will have long term issues with value driving all player activity as long as it remains a TCG, and will have to continue to build in incentives to steer players where they want them to go, over offering options that promote "fun" without the value aspect.
    • NicoSharp wrote:

      Yes you are a great deck builder Wol.
      Maybe more would play your decks if your BM in limited chat was not so legendary? :P
      Your percentages are cute, but fluffy-land make believe.

      People failing to cope with these changes right now are not deck builders. However, even as deck builders, we have a right to be vocally annoyed by some of the changes.

      In all honesty, I don't think Phenteo's Gift, or mill are going anywhere, they are just requiring minor tweaks for consistency. Maybe turn 5 or 6 mill, vs. turn 4 - and that may kill them in fishbowl mode, if they do not pack removal, or other ways to mitigate their opponents. People will gravitate to the easiest most efficient things in life. It's only natural because people were using FRA as a farming platform for value, not an entertainment platform for fun. HEX will have long term issues with value driving all player activity as long as it remains a TCG, and will have to continue to build in incentives to steer players where they want them to go, over offering options that promote "fun" without the value aspect.
      I'll have you know 81.7% of all percantages not backed by data are made up on the spot!

      Also if i was unclear on that point i think that deckbuilders are the ones who are allowed to be vocally annoyed at this change. They are the ones that lost real time and effort to this change even if i do agree with the change.
    • Wolzarg wrote:

      NicoSharp wrote:

      Yes you are a great deck builder Wol.
      Maybe more would play your decks if your BM in limited chat was not so legendary? :P
      Your percentages are cute, but fluffy-land make believe.

      People failing to cope with these changes right now are not deck builders. However, even as deck builders, we have a right to be vocally annoyed by some of the changes.

      In all honesty, I don't think Phenteo's Gift, or mill are going anywhere, they are just requiring minor tweaks for consistency. Maybe turn 5 or 6 mill, vs. turn 4 - and that may kill them in fishbowl mode, if they do not pack removal, or other ways to mitigate their opponents. People will gravitate to the easiest most efficient things in life. It's only natural because people were using FRA as a farming platform for value, not an entertainment platform for fun. HEX will have long term issues with value driving all player activity as long as it remains a TCG, and will have to continue to build in incentives to steer players where they want them to go, over offering options that promote "fun" without the value aspect.
      I'll have you know 81.7% of all percantages not backed by data are made up on the spot!
      Also if i was unclear on that point i think that deckbuilders are the ones who are allowed to be vocally annoyed at this change. They are the ones that lost real time and effort to this change even if i do agree with the change.
      And yet it seems to be the net deckers that are upset. I think most of us that build our own decks realized that most of these cards needed nerfed. I think the ones that bother us deck builders the most are the finesse cards like Ripplewood and Parrot. I didn't see those coming to be honest and I'm not sure which decks they were addressing that drove the nerfs, unless it was a perceived problem for Siege
    • Parrot has the potential of being a super broken card in its former state and still is not bad at all at 3. My main use for parrot was more turns or a nice morphology with equipment. I will likely still use parrot.

      I am fine with ripple getting a huge nerf bat because it synorgizes so well with the cat ninjas and other cards of the like. It was too much.

      A buff to slaughtergears would be nice though.

      I am one that hopes you need to pay money to get a good deck that goes through the arena successfully Pve is too free right now imo.
    • Pandaemonium wrote:

      Parrot has the potential of being a super broken card in its former state and still is not bad at all at 3. My main use for parrot was more turns or a nice morphology with equipment. I will likely still use parrot.

      I am fine with ripple getting a huge nerf bat because it synorgizes so well with the cat ninjas and other cards of the like. It was too much.

      A buff to slaughtergears would be nice though.

      I am one that hopes you need to pay money to get a good deck that goes through the arena successfully Pve is too free right now imo.
      Well yeah, of course they could do powerful things, that's why they were popular, but they weren't doing broken things. The decks that ran those cards were powerful, but they were slow, and therefore weren't good for grinding the arena for loot if you were going for speed (which is what most grinders are looking for).

      Due to the fact that those cards weren't resulting in a high gold per hour return, I don't think they were nerfed with FRA in mind, but rather interactions they were worried about for Siege
    • KozHex wrote:

      Pandaemonium wrote:

      Parrot has the potential of being a super broken card in its former state and still is not bad at all at 3. My main use for parrot was more turns or a nice morphology with equipment. I will likely still use parrot.

      I am fine with ripple getting a huge nerf bat because it synorgizes so well with the cat ninjas and other cards of the like. It was too much.

      A buff to slaughtergears would be nice though.

      I am one that hopes you need to pay money to get a good deck that goes through the arena successfully Pve is too free right now imo.
      Well yeah, of course they could do powerful things, that's why they were popular, but they weren't doing broken things. The decks that ran those cards were powerful, but they were slow, and therefore weren't good for grinding the arena for loot if you were going for speed (which is what most grinders are looking for).
      Due to the fact that those cards weren't resulting in a high gold per hour return, I don't think they were nerfed with FRA in mind, but rather interactions they were worried about for Siege
      I never said they were nerfed for fra. They could be broken in campaign (if we ever get high end content) or siege (if the ai could use ripple effectively).