Siege mode review and discussion thread

    • It would be very very cool if there were some modest form of ladder / progression / bragging right / prizes alongside the bounties themselves, even if it's just down to a 'simple' Kismet-Draft comparable 'For every X sieges you successfully conquer' / 'For every X sieges you successfully rebuke' tallying towards cosmetics (different Hex race fortress sleeves, fun AA or AAA cards, a cool siege battleboard with little animations and a fortress-like aesthetic, etc.)

      Sort of a ladder plinth-equivalent would be similarly cool, e.g. a little rampart-laden tower the defending decks sit on.

      Edit: Heck, maybe this is an elegant way for US & EU players to get some of those old AA cards from regions we never had access to.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Blackwood ().

    • I had made the following suggestion a long time ago with regards to Strongholds, I think this is the PERFECT place to reiterate it.

      [Building] - Tavern

      [Usage] - A place to temporarily pick up some generic mercenaries that will doan assigned work while you're not logged in the game.

      > Player has to pay to make use of a mercenary.
      > The mercenary pool is limited (3-5) but replenishes at a consistent X period of time (maybe faster with certain Stronghold upgrade) / (maybe have a lumpsum to instantly replenish one slot).
      > The mercenary pool will be randomly shuffled once per week from all available mercenaries.
      > Mercenaries may be any mercenary we've come by already or even generic mercenaries that don't exist outside this system (Veteran Ardent Human Soldier, Apprentice Underworld Vennen Mage)
      > Pool of 3-5 will be random, no need to have every player find the same mercenaries on the same day.
      > You can pick one mercenary to work for you (maybe more if you've upgraded your Stronghold?)
      > Duration each mercenary works for you might be different. Duration might be extended depending on how much you pay them.
      > You give them a deck and assign them to go siege. In order to give them some sense of direction, you can allow players to put a certain "threshold" of cost of siege they'll allow a specific merc/deck combo to siege and also how many sieges to do per day (just so the AI doesn't inadvertily spend all your Gold or Platinum).
    • The mode seems like great fun (though it would be better if we could give some instructions to the AI ( imho the best way would be some simple scripting language, and whenever it has no instructions (and no "pass" instruction), it acts as default AI (though this would probably mean even more development time)) and let players use pve cards to compensate.

      However, i'm worried that someone will find some deck that, even when piloted by AI, is unbeatable by any standard deck.

      Also, the tax seems too high for me. Today, the things in hex where platinum or gold disappears from the economy are when value is gained - with buying packs, spinning chests, and entering tournaments, new stuff is created, and with auction house, buyer gets something they valued more than what they paid, and the seller gets money they want more than what they sold, so subjective value is generated.

      With this mode, currency is destroyed and nothing is created, and yet it gets 12.5 % tax instead of the auction house 5%. I think it will lead to most players avoiding this mode simply because they can't pay for it and want to spend their stuff on something that will get them new cards instead of probably losing their currency.

      The solution would be to either remove the tax entirely or to add some special rewards. Some suggestions:
      • If someone wins an attack, both the attacker and defender could get some lootboxes based on how long the keep was undefeated.
      • After each game, the loser (or winner, but i'd prefer the loser to at least get some consolation prize) gets lootboxes (maybe even current kismet packs) based on how much gold/plat was destroyed by tax. (basically put them as secret numbers on the players account, whenever gold destroyed gets over 15k, spend 15k and send them a kismet reserve pack, and whenever the plat gets over 200, do the same for kismet draft packs (or current set packs, but kismet could be used for flavor and would persuade more players to draft when kismet drafts come)) .
        • This still removes currency from the economy just as buying those packs does, but does it in a fun way.
      • Give a "attack random stronghold with hoard in this price range" button, and give players some (5 k) "gold credits" that refresh daily and can be used only on attacking random players with this button (to prevent abuse like attacking and surrendering to a friend every day).




      Without any changes to tax/rewards, this mode will be only used for bragging rights (minimum hoard, forum post "come look at this crazy siege i made"), which would still be cool, but it could be much more.

      The post was edited 3 times, last by cyberutopia ().

    • cyberutopia wrote:

      However, i'm worried that someone will find some deck that, even when piloted by AI, is unbeatable by any standard deck.



      Also, the tax seems too high for me. [...] With this mode, currency is destroyed and nothing is created, and yet it gets 12.5 % tax instead of the auction house 5%.
      (1) Is unlikely, judging by what FRA has shown us. And while the defender will not have uber champions with game breaking passives / champion powers or troll AI-only cards, this will be balanced by the fact that the average player beats an above-average AI in Hex.

      (2) If you think about it, the one big Gold sink that is Wheels of Fate is, most likely, NOT working as intended. Vast majority of chests being rolled are Common and Uncommon. They needed this. Also, nothing is created with the 5% of the AH tax either.
    • Will PS4 players ever be able to create a siege defense?

      The announcement post certainly got me excited. "tinkering? Building new decks? Yeah! ...PvE cards? Oh. I can't participate in the neat part."

      I'd rather play standard with my standard deck. I sure hope PS4 players can fully participate soon. We're hobbled as it is!
    • [PSN]Fuzz-E_Lumpkin wrote:

      Will PS4 players ever be able to create a siege defense?

      The announcement post certainly got me excited. "tinkering? Building new decks? Yeah! ...PvE cards? Oh. I can't participate in the neat part."

      I'd rather play standard with my standard deck. I sure hope PS4 players can fully participate soon. We're hobbled as it is!
      Yes, they should. PvE cards and equipment are in addition to PvP cards. You should be allowed to use just PvP cards and no equipment for the defense. And yes, admitedly the power level will be lower.
    • Vroengard wrote:

      (1) Is unlikely, judging by what FRA has shown us. And while the defender will not have uber champions with game breaking passives / champion powers or troll AI-only cards, this will be balanced by the fact that the average player beats an above-average AI in Hex.
      (2) If you think about it, the one big Gold sink that is Wheels of Fate is, most likely, NOT working as intended. Vast majority of chests being rolled are Common and Uncommon. They needed this. Also, nothing is created with the 5% of the AH tax either.
      (1) I hope you're right, but FRA is built to be fun, not to be as hard as possible. And players have 3 decks to work with, so the point isn't making one unbeatable deck, but rather making 3 decks that can't be countered by any one deck. Still, i don't think we'll know until this comes out.
      (2) With AH, both players get something they want more than what they gave, so (subjective) value is created.
      With chests (btw i think players should be able to downgrade chests), yes, it's not working as intended, because the gold sink is too high and the reward too low. That's my point about siege.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by cyberutopia ().

    • [PSN]Fuzz-E_Lumpkin wrote:

      Will PS4 players ever be able to create a siege defense?

      The announcement post certainly got me excited. "tinkering? Building new decks? Yeah! ...PvE cards? Oh. I can't participate in the neat part."

      I'd rather play standard with my standard deck. I sure hope PS4 players can fully participate soon. We're hobbled as it is!
      It was officially confirmed both on the forums and twitter that the new Siege mode would be available for PS4 players. For PS4, you obviously will not be able to create a keep to defend but you will be able to siege other player's keeps.

      The Wardens of Entrath is a large, open to public community of Hex enthusiasts with a mission to help and support Hex players and content creators alike!

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    • Vroengard wrote:

      @CoachFliperon If we assume that the AI will not be able to play a totally unknown deck at its full potential, I was thinking that a solid Defender deck base should have stuff that passively happen.

      Simplest example: Nightfall.

      With equipment, the amount of how many passive things you can build around of increases expotentially.
      Yes, we have a very active discussion over on the Warden discord and we came to the same conclusion: the best decks will use cards that do not present choices or have very low requirement of sequencing. My personal favorites are Sneakblade of the Milky Eye, Fertile Engorger and the amazing Angel of Foresight!

      The Wardens of Entrath is a large, open to public community of Hex enthusiasts with a mission to help and support Hex players and content creators alike!

      Find us on our Discord server or website!
    • Mischevious imp school schedule :

      - laughing in an annoying way 101
      - ripping and tearing : knowing the difference

      Lunch break : fighting for food

      - trickery explained
      - group activities : kick the shroom
      Awaiting the Doomwalker's arrival in Entrath since the Beta.

      " Honey, where's my chaos key ?
      - Have you searched in your chaos coat ?
      - Shoot I left it in the chaos car... "

      ... Still be waiting for a while it seems ...
    • Likes - New on demand content using PVE cards

      Dislikes - The AI is pants-on-head retatrded.

      The AI is not going to have a clue how to use equipment or mulligan properly.

      Suggestion - Allow the use of 4 to 10 Primal Shards in deck building to ease threshold fuck-ups by the AI.

      Overall, glad some new PVEish content is finally coming out.
    • this is something that can actually be turned into a mmo. looks promising

      i might not understand how it works fully, but it sounds like it's in the right direction of being replayable content.

      i anticipate these issues:
      • if the gauntlets are not anonymized, there's no financial incentive to actually submit a siege defense after it has been scouted. it'll just get repeatedly defeated by humans playing the counter-deck.
      • creating siege defenses is kind of like making content. it seems the system should incentivize the creation of fun content, but this comes at a cost to the creators of that content. it's like charging level designers for their work instead of rewarding them
      • can different players challenge the same gauntlet simultaneously? does it stay available for new challengers after it has been defeated? if both are true and your gauntlet gets popular for whatever reason, you can lose a lot of currency overnight while you're not even logged in. if both aren't true, then it creates a barrier to playing a fun level and sharing that experience with others
      • how do people discover new gauntlets they haven't played before? how do they know to bring a low-power deck for low-power gauntlets and a high-power deck for high-power gauntlets?


      it feels like this is something where the costs should be paid by the attackers, not the people relying on the "brilliant" hex AI to protect their hoard. it can be a gold sink and reward loot to make attackers feel good about it, and then hex should have some incentives for people to actually put in the time to create & test some interesting defenses.

      even if the system ends up being balanced between offense & defense, relying on a negative-EV prize structure would deter participation. the income should come from people buying all the cards/equipment they need to play (and create) the game, instead of being a tax on actually playing it.