Friday Update - Ohhh Yeaah!

    • Interesting concept - thank you for giving us details at this point, great to see that... more stuff just using pvp champs though, which really saddens me.

      Oh well, it's more content for the game, even if the lack of playable pve cards and no mercs/pve champs means I probably won't participate. I don't have good enough quality pvp cards to make a deck that's gonna be worth entering something like this.

      At least it might make pve cards worth more. So there's that.
      Gamer. Streamer. Photographer. Writer. Anime Lover. Possessor of Stuffed Animals.

      Also... I'm terrible at this game.
    • From a defender standpoint, let me present a sequence with some questions to make sure I understand the system correctly:

      1) I build my three decks, using any cards and equipment in my collection. I then assign them each to a PvP champion (in the first iteration of the system), set a sequence, and it is ready to launch.
      - Subquestion: Do we get to assign sleeves and battleboards for the encounters?

      2) I can test against my own keep, using any legal attacker deck (standard legal with the first iteration), as many times as I like before queuing it up for challengers.
      - Subquestion: Does/will the AI have style presets ("Aggressive play/always attack when able", "Defensive play/always stack-block to kill") to tailor to deck style?

      3) Once the deck is queued, it may be challenged by anyone willing to pay the fee, which is 40% of the hoard.
      - Subquestion: I assume that the value of the hoard is automatically removed from my main account bank once I queue up the keep, in order to make sure that it is available as a prize for the duration of the time it is queued. Correct?

      4) I have no direct participation in any matches involving my keep(s). I will see whether a keep is currently engaged, and I will learn whether or not the AI was able to defeat the challengers. But aside from adding or removing a (non-engaged) keep from the queue, I have no direct defense participation beyond building/maintianing the decks.
      - Subquestion: Do we get notifications when a keep is defended/defeated, or do we just have to watch the queue status?

      5) Regardless of the outcome of the matches, I immediately earn 20% of the hoard value, credited to my main account bank. In addition, the value of my hoard increases by 15% (37.5% of the 40% entry fee), but this value is unrealized until the challenger fails the attempt.

      6) Assuming no active challengers, I can remove my keep from the queue. The entire current value of my hoard is then credited back to my main account bank.

      7) If the keep is defeated, the entire current balance of the hoard is lost, awarded to the attacker.

      8) Undefeated keeps remain in the queue, getting progressively bigger, until either (A) they are defeated, or (B) the owner removes them from the queue.

      9) Defeated keeps are immediately removed from the queue and cannot be challenged again until the owner resubmits a hoard and adds it back to the queue.
      - Subquestion: Or do they instead automatically refresh, charging the owner the base hoard value every time it is farmed?


      So, assuming it all works as above, this is a viable example:

      I create my keep, test it, and decide to launch it with a hoard of 6000 Gold. That 6000G is immediately deducted from my main bank (deposited into the keep hoard) to make sure I don't spend it elsewhere. A challenger would then have to pay 2400G to be able to play against it, immediately earning me 1200G to my main account bank while raising the total value of my hoard to 6900G (the remaining 300G, or 5%, is lost to the war tax). I then sit back and wait. Let's assume my keep is able to defeat its first challenger, and I decide to let it stay in the queue. Later, another challenger comes to call. Now, they have to pay 2760G (6900*.4), and I immediately earn 1380G to my main bank. The hoard goes up to 7935G (6900*1.15). Again, I wait. If the attacker fails, I could then either let the keep stay in the queue, or remove it from the queue and immediately collect the 7935G hoard back to my main bank. However, if the attacker wins, my hoard is reduced to 0G and my keep is automatically kicked out of the queue until I deposit another hoard and actively relist it on the queue.

      Pretty cool. At that rate, a keep would need to go undefeated for 3 consecutive challengers in order for you to (more than) double your money, so if your keeps are easy to crack it will be costly, but a good run by a single keep can recover from a bad spree pretty quickly.

      The main challenge I see is encouraging players to actually fight them. Keeps sound like they'll be a blast to design, but paying 40% of the value of the hoard (granted now for a chance to win 115% of the hoard) to battle one with a standard-legal deck might be a bit of a tough sell once the defense meta gets established. Of course, I could almost see one major way this gets played is entirely single player: Make your own fun challenge keeps, and then just test against them (free) until you have your fun, and then build/test a new one. That sounds like a much better sandbox than we currently have, so it'll be pretty awesome regardless of how the actual competitive keep scene shapes up.

      Seriously, good times. I haven't been excited about anything HEX in a long time. Feels good to have that back.
      The Unnamed Council - Community Admin
    • I LOVE this news. New fun gameplay mode. New way to potentially make gold / plat.

      It in no way threatens what I'm doing with my Dungeon Masters of Entrath show. SImilar idea with player-made dungeons, and a "PVP / PVE" feel, but there's a big difference between facing AI and live interaction vs. a human controller.

      Looking forward to playing with this system and seeing how I can incorporate it into my streaming.

      This is the kind of infinitely-replayable mode Hex really needed. Both casual and hardcore Hex players can get a lot of mileage out of it.
      Watch Dungeon Masters of Entrath - The HEX Gameshow! Wednesday 8pm EST
      I am ThrawnOmega on Xbox Live, Twitter, Steam, and Twitch.
      Forum Avatar by @tfa_96 on Twitter.
    • Thrawn wrote:

      This is the kind of infinitely-replayable mode Hex really needed. Both casual and hardcore Hex players can get a lot of mileage out of it.
      I don't necessarily think it's going to do much for casual players except drain their bank accounts, honestly.

      Casual players aren't going to have strong PVP card collections. I think that's a fairly safe assumption, since a lot of pvp cards that are really strong cost 5-20 bucks per card, and thus they're probably likely out of reach of the casual player. So casual players won't be able to challenge harder sieges.

      On a similar note, casual players won't stand to gain much from making a siege, since their siege is likely to get trounced by the hardcore hex players pretty quickly, grinding its value down to nothing... and thus essentially making it a waste of resources for them with little chance of any gain.

      The fact that it costs to enter means that this is going to be primarily beneficial for the hardcore players... because casual players simply will stand no chance of gain, and will likely stop playing fairly quickly.


      That being said, that doesn't mean I consider this a bad thing. I'm really pleased to see them making more pve content, more vs ai content, and more replayable game modes. I merely think we shouldn't try to shape this into being something it isn't. This game mode is going to be cut-throat, and not a place for casual players. It's gonna be cool to see what people do with it, regardless of that.
      Gamer. Streamer. Photographer. Writer. Anime Lover. Possessor of Stuffed Animals.

      Also... I'm terrible at this game.
    • Eraia wrote:

      I don't necessarily think it's going to do much for casual players except drain their bank accounts, honestly.
      As I noted in my bigger post above, I think this will actually be a pretty big, albeit unintended, boon for casuals. The fact that you can play against ("test") your own keeps - totally free - is the real kicker for the casual. Any player can build a keep, regardless of their collection size, and simply "test" against it as much as they want with the standard-legal decks they can make. If it gets old, they can make a new keep.

      There are no prizes and no big surprises, but it effectively gives players a fairly customizable sandbox to play in absolutely free. If a new player is struggling against the FRA or a campaign match, or just wants to test their favorite new theme deck against a gauntlet of AI decks that cater to specific challenges, they will now have the tools to do that.

      That may be the accidental big winner of this new system, and it is totally accessible to new players and small collections.
      The Unnamed Council - Community Admin
    • Greyhaven wrote:

      There are no prizes and no big surprises, but it effectively gives players a fairly customizable sandbox to play in absolutely free. If a new player is struggling against the FRA or a campaign match, or just wants to test their favorite new theme deck against a gauntlet of AI decks that cater to specific challenges, they will now have the tools to do that.

      That may be the accidental big winner of this new system, and it is totally accessible to new players and small collections.
      I feel like you're underestimating how big of an impct 'no reward' will have on that particular concept...
      Gamer. Streamer. Photographer. Writer. Anime Lover. Possessor of Stuffed Animals.

      Also... I'm terrible at this game.
    • Eraia wrote:

      I feel like you're underestimating how big of an impct 'no reward' will have on that particular concept...
      Perhaps, but I think there are (at least) two camps that PvE has been serving - Those who want a free way to advance (classic F2P), and those who just want something fun to do.

      As a member of the latter camp, the big problem with PvE (IMO) has been a lack of content. There are farmable rewards at every turn, but the reason I stopped engaging was that there was nothing interesting to do that I hadn't already done many times before. FRA1 was a tired sandbox, but it at least gave me a place to try wonky ideas with a smaller pack of restrictions.

      This is a game changer. In addition to the introduction of effectively "competitive PvE content", we're at the doorstep of real player-created PvE content. This opens a massive door to content generation, as players will be making continuous new content for each other. But where the casual benefits is that they can now create completely free content for themselves.

      You're right, that a lack of reward will be very unattractive to some. "What's the point?" "Where's my progression?" etc. But for any player just looking for something new to do, the options are now limited only by your creativity (and your collection). That's a huge win!
      The Unnamed Council - Community Admin
    • If Siege gets big enough, hopefully CZE can allow the defender to stick to the deck restrictions inside the client for defense, thus limiting the attacker as well. Having a Rock Siege league could be really cool. Restrictions could really help out the new or casual player.

      The big trouble with this is of course equipment can sometimes make a common card OP. I haven't really paid any attention to the rarity of that equipment though, so maybe it would work out.
    • part of the appeal of PVE is having a mode where the AI can lose more often so that the humans can win more often. that's not possible in PVP, which is zero-sum

      the siege mode seems okay, but it seems set up so that the AI has to survive 5 assaults in a row before the defender breaks even.

      personally, i'm fine with a challenge, but do PVE players really want the mode to only be fair if the AI is winning a lot?
    • Greyhaven wrote:

      You're right, that a lack of reward will be very unattractive to some. "What's the point?" "Where's my progression?" etc. But for any player just looking for something new to do, the options are now limited only by your creativity (and your collection). That's a huge win!
      The point is that most players want something fun to do that ALSO helps them progress.
      Gamer. Streamer. Photographer. Writer. Anime Lover. Possessor of Stuffed Animals.

      Also... I'm terrible at this game.
    • This idea, on its core, its awesome and has a lot of potential. I cannot be more happy, I just think it will give the game a big boost overall.

      Finding the balance between wanting to attack and wanting to defend will be a task to fine tune in the coming months. A lot of this stuff will be sorted out sooner or later. Hex usually have been very successful in that matter (at least in my opinion).

      Moving forward, a lot can be added to this system:

      - Rewards (for both attackers and defenders)

      - Stats and leaderboards

      - A tier system (it's difficult to measure if a deck is good or very good, but I think it can encourage new players to attack. For example, keeps would have between 1 and 5 stars depending on its difficulty so people can know what to expect when fighting a keep -again, its not easy to measure that-)

      - Additional options to buy (maybe one more slot in the keep? A particular mercenary or a card only available for keeps? You name it)

      - Keep customization?

      Overall, I see a lot of potential in this, and I'm very excited to try it. What a way to start the year!
      Twitter: @Plotynus
    • Really excited to try keeps, but I think the balance is going to be tough to get right. Standard legal vs everything in the game? Ouch...

      Won't be fun to get Terrormilled to death over and over. You know that's going to happen, and putting in anti-mill cards will only be so useful since you have to survive the other two challenges and you don't want a bunch of anti-mill junk against aggro or something. So like I said, balance is going to be an interesting obstacle to overcome.

      Still, it will be fun to mess with, and it's an exciting addition to the game
    • I wonder if someone will do something crazy like put up a 10,000 plat keep. Hell of a blow if someone beats it immediately, but man, imagine if it went 10 or 20 wins in a row... profit! ;)

      Of course, it would take a special kind of crazy person to risk $40 to try to take the keep down. That whole 40% thing man... it's going to prevent a lot of people from engaging.

      Maybe we need a 2nd option, where the attacker can put up a smaller portion of the stake to attack, and they don't drain the keep entirely even if they win, but just the appropriate percentage? So if the keep were 10,000 gold, and you went in at 400 gold instead of 4,000, a win would net you only 1,000 gold instead of the full 10,000. On the other hand, that opens itself up to abuse too, since then players would pay just 10 gold to attack a keep and find out what's in the decks. Grr... I want all this to work, but it has issues that need to be figured out still. :)
      --ossuary

      "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none."
      - Shakespeare, All's Well That Ends Well
    • Ossuary wrote:

      I wonder if someone will do something crazy like put up a 10,000 plat keep. Hell of a blow if someone beats it immediately, but man, imagine if it went 10 or 20 wins in a row... profit! ;)

      Of course, it would take a special kind of crazy person to risk $40 to try to take the keep down. That whole 40% thing man... it's going to prevent a lot of people from engaging.

      Maybe we need a 2nd option, where the attacker can put up a smaller portion of the stake to attack, and they don't drain the keep entirely even if they win, but just the appropriate percentage? So if the keep were 10,000 gold, and you went in at 400 gold instead of 4,000, a win would net you only 1,000 gold instead of the full 10,000. On the other hand, that opens itself up to abuse too, since then players would pay just 10 gold to attack a keep and find out what's in the decks. Grr... I want all this to work, but it has issues that need to be figured out still. :)
      I can guarantee I will put something way over 10k plat during launch. Would be nice if we can have password protected keeps (so for example you can invite a streamer to try to beat it for entertainment purposes) but it's obviously not worth development time at the beginning.
    • Yeah the keeps will need to be refined at some point, so you can have more than one, so you can have private-ish ones that only friends can access, or something along those lines, or even put up a password protected one. One per account will be problematic for those players who like to brew lots. Maybe they can eventually give us keep slots just like character slots, instead of just having the single one per account, and let us configure some settings on each one. Obviously that sort of thing will come later, but I hope they have built the core system with those types of possibilities in mind.
      --ossuary

      "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none."
      - Shakespeare, All's Well That Ends Well
    • Bootlace wrote:

      Ossuary wrote:

      I wonder if someone will do something crazy like put up a 10,000 plat keep. Hell of a blow if someone beats it immediately, but man, imagine if it went 10 or 20 wins in a row... profit! ;)

      Of course, it would take a special kind of crazy person to risk $40 to try to take the keep down. That whole 40% thing man... it's going to prevent a lot of people from engaging.

      Maybe we need a 2nd option, where the attacker can put up a smaller portion of the stake to attack, and they don't drain the keep entirely even if they win, but just the appropriate percentage? So if the keep were 10,000 gold, and you went in at 400 gold instead of 4,000, a win would net you only 1,000 gold instead of the full 10,000. On the other hand, that opens itself up to abuse too, since then players would pay just 10 gold to attack a keep and find out what's in the decks. Grr... I want all this to work, but it has issues that need to be figured out still. :)
      I can guarantee I will put something way over 10k plat during launch. Would be nice if we can have password protected keeps (so for example you can invite a streamer to try to beat it for entertainment purposes) but it's obviously not worth development time at the beginning.
      This could go paired with vieuwing the assault on your keep, you could stream sort of dungeons than.
    • Bootlace wrote:

      Ossuary wrote:

      I wonder if someone will do something crazy like put up a 10,000 plat keep. Hell of a blow if someone beats it immediately, but man, imagine if it went 10 or 20 wins in a row... profit! ;)

      Of course, it would take a special kind of crazy person to risk $40 to try to take the keep down. That whole 40% thing man... it's going to prevent a lot of people from engaging.

      Maybe we need a 2nd option, where the attacker can put up a smaller portion of the stake to attack, and they don't drain the keep entirely even if they win, but just the appropriate percentage? So if the keep were 10,000 gold, and you went in at 400 gold instead of 4,000, a win would net you only 1,000 gold instead of the full 10,000. On the other hand, that opens itself up to abuse too, since then players would pay just 10 gold to attack a keep and find out what's in the decks. Grr... I want all this to work, but it has issues that need to be figured out still. :)
      I can guarantee I will put something way over 10k plat during launch. Would be nice if we can have password protected keeps (so for example you can invite a streamer to try to beat it for entertainment purposes) but it's obviously not worth development time at the beginning.
      Simplest workaround to this would be to publish the keep at the stream's time.
      Twitter: @Plotynus