Early 2018 PVE related request - New PVP(E) format!

    • Early 2018 PVE related request - New PVP(E) format!

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      Are you interested in playing this new format? 68
      1.  
        Yes (43) 63%
      2.  
        No (25) 37%







      Purpose of this thread


      The objective of this thread is to try and influence HexEnt towards something I believe would be on the low end of efforts (not insignificant, but likely lower than any other new content) and that would add significant replayability and value to the current PVE offering while we wait for bigger, dedicated PVE releases.
      • Enabling a form of PVP including PVE cards and equipments


      The Context
      Knowing that the next “big” dedicated PVE upgrade is far off (months) and that we already been without new content for a while, I have been trying to figure out what could possibly be the least amount of effort for HexEnt. that would produce something related to PVE that would give us something to do while we wait.

      What occurred to me is that the least amount of effort for them would be having the community handle most of it. As things are right now with PVE, there isn’t much room to work with besides deck building contests. Most of the other things we can do often ends up not being very accessible to most players or very narrow (need players to be streamers, handle things through third party softwares or rely on the replay feature that is not yet configured to efficiently track PVE).

      Ultimately, my thought process ended with the conclusion that what could help achieving these goals was introducing some form of PVP that would incorporate PVE cards and equipments. It would enable players to theorycraft and play with each others in this new PVE contest and most importantly, would create a meta that, hopefully, will be evolving throughout the upcoming releases and beyond.

      This idea raises a few issues but I believe we can work around most of them.


      The suggestion - new "Heroes" format
      For the sake of argument, I’ll just call this new suggested format "Heroes". I’ll use the shortcut to make this write up easier.
      • Put in place a new Deck Validation format on the Frost Ring Arena deck builder section that would follow these requirements:
        • Deck size 100
        • Singleton
      • Enable us to use this new type of deck when challenging other players.
        • In the Challenge Player window, add “Frost Ring Arena” in the Format list and only display the decks that fulfil the “Heroes” deck validation
      The "Heroes" format would end up being a larger singleton format using 100 cards deck size and current FRA selection of cards (Immortal + PVE cards), equipment and Champions (Immortal).

      The goal of the suggestion is to stay minimalist so no "official" tournament or events. Just the opportunity for players to start exploring PVP(E). Let us test it and see how the community rallies behind it!


      The commitment

      Asking Hex to implement a format, even if it appears to be a good idea, is not enough. We need to demonstrate, as a community, that this new format would indeed be something that would generate enough participation to make it worth the efforts. Even more so if we want the format to not only exist, but to eventually get its own dedicated support!

      As such, we suggest that we take the following two steps:
      • Show your support in the suggested new "Heroes" format by answering the poll in this thread. A big number of positive answers will go a long way to show our global interest!
      • Implement a community league around the "Heroes" format
        • To really demonstrate that the community would start rallying around the new format we need to show that we are ready to support it. actual. As such the Wardens of Entrath will put in place a new "100 cards, singleton" league to hopefully demonstrate that the interest voiced in this thread is not just curiosity!
      Evidently, we cannot really put a league in place for the "Heroes" format just yet since we just can’t do it in client. However we can do something that would be close to it as a "proof of concept". Wardens of Entrath will be creating a dedicated post for the new league with all the details and its prize structure in the next week. Expect some cool Platinum and PVE related prizes attached to it (meaning many Kickstarter exclusive items!)


      Details and thought process

      Playability and balance issues
      • One of the biggest pitfall of trying to do PVP(E) is the power level of the cards. PVE cards were never created or balanced with the mindset of using them between players. We already see it with the kinds of deck in Frost Ring Arena. There are decks that consistently win on turn 3 or 4, doing outrageous things that are not very interactive. However, when I saw the announcement for “Singles Night” I just thought this was the perfect solution! By making decks singleton with a significant deck size, we will be avoiding nearly all of the linear strategies we currently see. After giving it some thoughts and trying to build a few decks with this rule, I strongly believe the format could be very interesting.
      Minimalist implementation
      • Using anything from the campaign outside of it (mercenaries, characters, talents, etc) would likely be too complicated for a “simple” implementation. Using the already in place deckbuilding restriction and the collection manager filter that already exist is likely the least amount of effort to achieve the “Heroes” format.
      Support from the replay feature
      • The replay feature currently enables us to find matches between players. Having a format we can show and cast would at least give a great tool to the community to start building around it!
      Adding value to the campaign
      • There are currently many loot drops from the Campaign, Frost Ring Arena and Kismet Reserves that could potentially be staples in such a format. If it ever becomes popular, it could raise the value of a few “farmable” items (not to mention sets that have rotated out). That would added value for new and F2P players alike.
      Evolution
      • This format would literally be affected by any new cards and equip created (new sets, updates to FRA, updates to campaign, new Kismet reserves rotation, etc.). As such, it would create the most fluid and evolving meta the game could offer!


      No limits!

      My suggestions were made with the mindset of keeping things simple. However, here are the things I believe would greatly improve the format if they would be implemented (later on or with its release):
      • Make sure that players have larger health pools (I would suggest doubling what they currently have)
      • The possibility of exploring using some of the mercenaries for the format or even having dedicated champions for it. (could even have a champion rotation)
      • This one is way out there but if there is a format that lends itself well for "testing" what multiplayer could be, it would likely be this kind of format (2v2 or 4 player free for all).
      • This could also be made into some kind of regular tournament or event that would reward exclusive PVE items. Could be a way to release new exciting exclusive PVE stuff like AAA PVE cards.


      Conclusion

      I hope this suggestion will raise great enthusiasm in our community. I can certainly say I would be thrilled to start playing it. Just working on this suggestion had me theorycraft a few deck concepts for it! (using both crusaders AND Emsee!)

      Hopefully we’ll gather enough feedback and enthusiasm around it to make it happen!
      @Twitch - @Twitter - @Youtube

      "A Gall's fortune is sometimes good and sometimes bad, but always true."

      The post was edited 11 times, last by CoachFliperon ().

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      No personally interested. I don't want more ways to play against people, I'm happy with the ways we have. I have nothing against the format, but I doubt I'd ever play it.
      Gamer. Streamer. Photographer. Writer. Anime Lover. Possessor of Stuffed Animals.

      Also... I'm terrible at this game.
    • New

      CoachFliperon wrote:

      Needle wrote:

      While I respect all the work, it's not PVE, just a different version of PVP. PVE literally stands for Player vs Enviroment. By removing the E out of PVE, it's not for me.
      It is indeed not PVE, the key is in the title!
      I know, but what I fear is that if CZE gives us this Heroes format, it will be used as an excuse to delay any real PVE content longer.

      "Ok guys, you wanted this Heroes format, go and enjoy it."

      "Yes, but we would like some new PVE content"

      "We spent lots of resources on your player request, we had to pull the resources from the PVE team for that, so...."

      This is ofcourse over exaggerated, but you get the idea.

      Maybe my worries are unfounded, guess we will see first what the rest of the active community think.
    • New

      Needle wrote:

      CoachFliperon wrote:

      Needle wrote:

      While I respect all the work, it's not PVE, just a different version of PVP. PVE literally stands for Player vs Enviroment. By removing the E out of PVE, it's not for me.
      It is indeed not PVE, the key is in the title!
      I know, but what I fear is that if CZE gives us this Heroes format, it will be used as an excuse to delay any real PVE content longer.
      "Ok guys, you wanted this Heroes format, go and enjoy it."

      "Yes, but we would like some new PVE content"

      "We spent lots of resources on your player request, we had to pull the resources from the PVE team for that, so...."

      This is ofcourse over exaggerated, but you get the idea.

      Maybe my worries are unfounded, guess we will see first what the rest of the active community think.
      I can respect the sentiment but to me this is just paranoia. Besides, the whole premise is that this would not delay anything. Off course no PVE enthusiast wants a pseudo PVE feature if it is to create some significant delay to the release of future dedicated PVE content. However, that is not the idea here.
      @Twitch - @Twitter - @Youtube

      "A Gall's fortune is sometimes good and sometimes bad, but always true."
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      You know the game has entered the next phase of Jeffecation when players openly ask for PvP content in the name of PvE... it's one thing for Hex to bait and switch but this is just encouraging bad behavior.
      "Winning with terrormill is not fun? Try losing with it"
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      omg stop pretending like anything in this realm hurts pve

      Any place you can use pve cards outside of pve is good for pve players

      Get the net

      As for this format: it's like most of the way to my format but he put a nice banner at the top and it's champs instead of mercs with color identity, like sure, whichever I don't care at this point - I don't know that pvp champs support equipment though

      Edit: forgot fra allowed equipment, sure, do this, whatever again I don't care anymore

      Edit 2: this format absolutely needs life total increases. Period. No exceptions. Merc life +20.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by schild ().

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      schild wrote:

      omg stop pretending like anything in this realm hurts pve

      Any place you can use pve cards outside of pve is good for pve players

      Get the net

      As for this format: it's like most of the way to my format but he put a nice banner at the top and it's champs instead of mercs with color identity, like sure, whichever I don't care at this point - I don't know that pvp champs support equipment though
      PVE players want to play PVE, not PVP.

      Please tell how another PVP format is good for PVE players?
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      Do you like selling pve cards for gold at platinum?

      Would you like to sell them for more gold and platinum?

      Any format that makes people use these cards is good for pve players. Period. The format literally exists to make bad and off-format cards good again.
    • New

      schild wrote:

      Do you like selling pve cards for gold at platinum?

      Would you like to sell them for more gold and platinum?

      Any format that makes people use these cards is good for pve players. Period. The format literally exists to make bad and off-format cards good again.
      Not sure how to answer this...

      Let's try again.

      I...want...to...play...PVE...not...just...selll...PVE...cards...do...you...understand...this...?
    • New

      I like it except for the whole singleton business. Singleton + Equipment is...I don't know. Congratulations, up to 6% of your deck has an added effect. But it's the only way that really prevents degenerate PvE combos from having it be a race to who gets to turn 3 first. Also, more than playing against a computer, the biggest reason for PvE for me is so that I don't have to be somewhere at sometime. Without official support, asynchronous events couldn't happen. Even my best intentions won't make me late for work or get up early for an event. So yeah, I'd love to play this casually with a couple of friends. But I wouldn't rally behind it to a huge degree.
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      Honestly we just need a free form game mode that doesn't check for _any_ deck building restrictions. Just pick a champion / merc of your choice, play any number of / combination of cards, gems, whatever, (including less than 60), and let me challenge people on my buddy list to games with it.

      Don't make the client enforce anything and you'd then be able to have people make all sorts of casual game modes they enjoy in other games.

      Shoot it would even let us create Hex cubes we could draft outside of client and then build the decks in client and play with friends.
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      60-card minimum deck size enforced would be the primary barrier, I imagine. Unless there's a way to save and challenge with 40-card decks I don't know about.
      Old username: Aradon | Collector backer | Starting a guild for Newbies -- "The Cerulean Acadamy" -- Taking applications once guilds are implemented