I know a lot of us have been going on about the candle Menace. But I really wanted to bring some light to the unfairness that is Robogoyle, I truly don't understand why it's okay to have a card that cost 3000 gold single-handedly hard counter an entire archetype. It's a free 3/3 that fliess ,has no way of countering it or interacting with it , and undoes most of ,if not all the Milling you've done to even bring the card out and the only way to counter the card is to herofall it before multiples hit the field. It's not it's okay for this Uncommon card only counter being a 1000 Plat piece of removal that not a lot of players have access to.I know it's not on the consistency and dominance verses all Arch types like Lazgar's Vengeance.But as a very Avid hex player it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth buying the $20 pre-made Mill deck that supports the archetype of the newest block and to have it all be countered by 4 cards that I actually can't do anything about until they've done the deed.Also just for transparency sake I'm not making this post about the $20 pre-made deck I'm making this post about the $120 Mill deck that I've spent the last weeks making over the course of trading and buying off the auction house.I want this game to thrive and be fair for all players of all walks of life and various incomes.But I've never seen a card be this dominant and be accessible with so many other thresholds before you respond. I ask you this one question how many do you run in your Reserve in all of your deck.
Robogoyle Ban or rework
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Powerful reserves answers are incredibly important to allow for a dynamic metagame. The card is not overpowered in the slightest in my eyes.
Even with this card in existence, the bury deck is quite good. I have the full 4 Robogoyle in my reserves in diamond/sapphire control and it's still rarely enough. -
Judging from the direction limited is going, they want this game to be super casual friendly, which means decks like mill have no place. Mill already isn't THAT strong, and they have a strong hate card that anybody can play.
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That I don't understand. If you want it casual friendly then surely having mill be feasible is what you do want?"Ignorant beliefs are stains upon the mind."
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Kaijudums wrote:
Powerful reserves answers are incredibly important to allow for a dynamic metagame. The card is not overpowered in the slightest in my eyes.
Even with this card in existence, the bury deck is quite good. I have the full 4 Robogoyle in my reserves in diamond/sapphire control and it's still rarely enough.
As for powerful reserve, I see absolutely nothing that provides the value-efficiency of Robogoyle when it comes to powerful reserve answer. Every other reserve cards in the world needs two things: cost and "be in hand". Robogoyle needs absolutely none of those. To counter a full constant deck with Scouring Light, I have to draw into Scouring Light, and then decide when to use it. Can I hold it for now? Do I need the 2 mana for something else? Should I save it for later when my opponent has more impactful constants on the board? By needing cost to cast it and having it in hand, powerful reserve card requires thinking and timing to utilize even when they are powerful. Robogoyle, on the other hand, needs absolutely zero of those things. You have Robogoyle in your deck, you just shove your deck to your mill deck opponent and say "please, mill my whole deck in next turn so I can beat you for 12 in the air per turn". Absolutely zero cost needed and absolutely zero thinking is needed to play Robogoyle efficiently. I find that to be a huge difference than other powerful reserve cards ever printed in Hex.
I have zero issue with Robogoyle in limited though, you rarely find more than 1 and 2 is more than enough. Plus, you aren't going to be paired up with mill deck anyway so if you are drafting and including Robogoyle, you might be risking your pick. Constructed, it's insanely powerful. -
Goliathus wrote:
Kaijudums wrote:
Powerful reserves answers are incredibly important to allow for a dynamic metagame. The card is not overpowered in the slightest in my eyes.
Even with this card in existence, the bury deck is quite good. I have the full 4 Robogoyle in my reserves in diamond/sapphire control and it's still rarely enough.
As for powerful reserve, I see absolutely nothing that provides the value-efficiency of Robogoyle when it comes to powerful reserve answer. Every other reserve cards in the world needs two things: cost and "be in hand". Robogoyle needs absolutely none of those. To counter a full constant deck with Scouring Light, I have to draw into Scouring Light, and then decide when to use it. Can I hold it for now? Do I need the 2 mana for something else? Should I save it for later when my opponent has more impactful constants on the board? By needing cost to cast it and having it in hand, powerful reserve card requires thinking and timing to utilize even when they are powerful. Robogoyle, on the other hand, needs absolutely zero of those things. You have Robogoyle in your deck, you just shove your deck to your mill deck opponent and say "please, mill my whole deck in next turn so I can beat you for 12 in the air per turn". Absolutely zero cost needed and absolutely zero thinking is needed to play Robogoyle efficiently. I find that to be a huge difference than other powerful reserve cards ever printed in Hex.
I have zero issue with Robogoyle in limited though, you rarely find more than 1 and 2 is more than enough. Plus, you aren't going to be paired up with mill deck anyway so if you are drafting and including Robogoyle, you might be risking your pick. Constructed, it's insanely powerful.
But really, every deck is supposed to have hard matchups. If what you're saying is Robogoyle ensures that Mill has at least one hard matchup in constructed, that sounds pretty healthy then.Gamer. Streamer. Photographer. Writer. Anime Lover. Possessor of Stuffed Animals.
Also... I'm terrible at this game. -
Eraia wrote:
I mean, if they get all four at once... but otherwise, maybe try something like Into the Unknown on the first one. Change the rest into something else... then it just slows you down a bit.
But really, every deck is supposed to have hard matchups. If what you're saying is Robogoyle ensures that Mill has at least one hard matchup in constructed, that sounds pretty healthy then.
Mill deck is never ever a T1 until now. They have hard matchups before the existence of Robogoyle. It's not like mill has absolute zero hard matchup in constructed before Robogoyle. So all Robogoyle really provide is make EVERY matchup a hard matchup for an archetype that is not ever T1 since the beginning of Hex. I don't play enough set 8 to really say anything of the current meta. But, in set 7, where I play a lot of spider mill, there are bad matchup all over the places. Ardent Aggro, or any kind of aggro is a hard matchup automatically for mill deck. I don't think I have to point out how much aggro are over the whole playing field in set 7. Pre- and post-LV, aggro has been there as a dominant force. Secondly, any crypt recursion deck, particularly B/W since we are talking about set 7, loves mill. My mill is just there to assist him in putting his big guys into the crypt. There's also the combo-based crypt recursion deck that is all about reviving things like Aegilus(or the B/S version with socket) that would love their opponent to mill them. That is a heck lot of hard matchups before the existence of Robogoyle.The post was edited 1 time, last by Goliathus ().
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Have a non mill plan in board problem solved. This is like ruby crying about lifegain pathetic.
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You know, I gave this card a lot of hate when it first got spoiled, but now it might finally be Archive Dweller's time to shine. Or maybe not, since it still costs 6, after all.
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Wolzarg wrote:
Have a non mill plan in board problem solved. This is like ruby crying about lifegain pathetic.
The post was edited 1 time, last by Goliathus ().
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Goliathus wrote:
Wolzarg wrote:
Have a non mill plan in board problem solved. This is like ruby crying about lifegain pathetic.
2) Into the Unknown
3) Kill it + Blink of Madness
4) Race him. Robogoyle is a "life gain" for mill. In a 60 card deck, it's a 6% of "health" per Robogoyle. If robogoyle is sideboarded, most of the decks will have 3 (4 is an excess if you ask me). So, have a plan (either to have more cards to mill, or to keep a hand that have some proactivity) to mill more cards than what it regains.Twitter: @Plotynus -
Plotynus wrote:
1) Herofall2) Into the Unknown
3) Kill it + Blink of Madness
4) Race him. Robogoyle is a "life gain" for mill. In a 60 card deck, it's a 6% of "health" per Robogoyle. If robogoyle is sideboarded, most of the decks will have 3 (4 is an excess if you ask me). So, have a plan (either to have more cards to mill, or to keep a hand that have some proactivity) to mill more cards than what it regains.
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Goliathus wrote:
Plotynus wrote:
1) Herofall2) Into the Unknown
3) Kill it + Blink of Madness
4) Race him. Robogoyle is a "life gain" for mill. In a 60 card deck, it's a 6% of "health" per Robogoyle. If robogoyle is sideboarded, most of the decks will have 3 (4 is an excess if you ask me). So, have a plan (either to have more cards to mill, or to keep a hand that have some proactivity) to mill more cards than what it regains.
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Heh, actually it would be interesting to see a bit more of the other acensions.HEX forums resident liker.
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Wolzarg wrote:
Demented ascension done
You are saying a card that you have to mill half off your opponent deck with 3-4 Robogoyle in it to be the solution? Please, at least take a bury deck for a spin, ask your friends to play whatever as long as it has 3 Robogoyles in the deck and see how often you can change into the Paragon. -
Fine favor of blood i mean i can keep going but robogoyle is not that great of a hate card it is just not bad enough to warrant thought.
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I understand that as a mill player, Robogoyle must be frustrating. But Mill would be much too strong if it did not exist. As is, if mill's share of the metagame diminishes, people will start leaving their Robogoyles out of reserves, and then would be an excellent time to run mill in a Bash.
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I mean its a reserve card doing its job i fail to see the issue honestly, should constants cry about scouring light? Tell me what the issue with the card is that makes it so completely broken?
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Goliathus wrote:
Kaijudums wrote:
Powerful reserves answers are incredibly important to allow for a dynamic metagame. The card is not overpowered in the slightest in my eyes.
Even with this card in existence, the bury deck is quite good. I have the full 4 Robogoyle in my reserves in diamond/sapphire control and it's still rarely enough.
As for powerful reserve, I see absolutely nothing that provides the value-efficiency of Robogoyle when it comes to powerful reserve answer. Every other reserve cards in the world needs two things: cost and "be in hand". Robogoyle needs absolutely none of those. To counter a full constant deck with Scouring Light, I have to draw into Scouring Light, and then decide when to use it. Can I hold it for now? Do I need the 2 mana for something else? Should I save it for later when my opponent has more impactful constants on the board? By needing cost to cast it and having it in hand, powerful reserve card requires thinking and timing to utilize even when they are powerful. Robogoyle, on the other hand, needs absolutely zero of those things. You have Robogoyle in your deck, you just shove your deck to your mill deck opponent and say "please, mill my whole deck in next turn so I can beat you for 12 in the air per turn". Absolutely zero cost needed and absolutely zero thinking is needed to play Robogoyle efficiently. I find that to be a huge difference than other powerful reserve cards ever printed in Hex.
I have zero issue with Robogoyle in limited though, you rarely find more than 1 and 2 is more than enough. Plus, you aren't going to be paired up with mill deck anyway so if you are drafting and including Robogoyle, you might be risking your pick. Constructed, it's insanely powerful.
@Wolzarg Not that far above. But milling through so many text walls can be tedious with a Robogoyle shuffling all that text back into the thread. -
omoreindakitchen wrote:
Goliathus wrote:
Kaijudums wrote:
Powerful reserves answers are incredibly important to allow for a dynamic metagame. The card is not overpowered in the slightest in my eyes.
Even with this card in existence, the bury deck is quite good. I have the full 4 Robogoyle in my reserves in diamond/sapphire control and it's still rarely enough.
I have zero issue with Robogoyle in limited though, you rarely find more than 1 and 2 is more than enough. Plus, you aren't going to be paired up with mill deck anyway so if you are drafting and including Robogoyle, you might be risking your pick. Constructed, it's insanely powerful.
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