So what do you think about Set 8 limited so far?

    • Gregangel wrote:

      i know people like to focus their hate toward the same target over and over. But Furiko in evo and in draft just got a 52/53% winrate.
      In the same range of every good class shard combo from any limited format.
      And far from the most efficient.
      Sometimes it's not only about winrate.

      What is the Furiko PLAY rate? Because even if you win against furiko, the games tend to be really slow, drawn out snoozefests... where nothing happens until turn 7 and either you lose, or you have a way to address their insane buffs and then they have nothing left to do for 7 more turns.

      Between furiko slogs and mill... this set just isn't very fun for limited...
      Gamer. Streamer. Photographer. Writer. Anime Lover. Possessor of Stuffed Animals.

      Also... I'm terrible at this game.
    • ThufirHawat wrote:

      To me, Furiko is the default thing to try if your deck just didn't come together. Just throw what playables you've got together, play for a board stall, and hope that your junk with +2/+2 is big enough. It's a useful role.
      Exactly this, if your deck is floobs and lacks the synergistic requirements for some other champions, just pick the "DO I WIN?" champion power! :)

      Twitch —— YouTube —— Twitter —— Steam —— Patreon
    • Gregangel wrote:

      i know people like to focus their hate toward the same target over and over. But Furiko in evo and in draft just got a 52/53% winrate.
      In the same range of every good class shard combo from any limited format.
      And far from the most efficient.
      Furiko is second in winrate in Evo. I don't careif it's 52 or 25, 2nd in winrate is the key here. The other good shard combo above it is Adoni-Zeddek. Other all good shard combo are both below in usage rate and win rate. Draft, it is the 4th winrate of the frequently used champion. A fairer position, with 3 of the great archetypes above her. However, the thing about Furiko is that it is able to carry decks that look like it would have 40% winrate into 52% by herself. That is the problem.
    • Gregangel wrote:

      i know people like to focus their hate toward the same target over and over. But Furiko in evo and in draft just got a 52/53% winrate.
      In the same range of every good class shard combo from any limited format.
      And far from the most efficient.
      that is pretty damn good though. you realize most of furikoh's matchups are mirror matches right.

      Even if the win rate was "fine", it doesn't change the fact that furikoh is limited game warping and either other wild champions need big buffs or... you know what nevermind.

      furikoh must be fine!
    • FryChikN wrote:

      Gregangel wrote:

      i know people like to focus their hate toward the same target over and over. But Furiko in evo and in draft just got a 52/53% winrate.
      In the same range of every good class shard combo from any limited format.
      And far from the most efficient.
      that is pretty damn good though. you realize most of furikoh's matchups are mirror matches right.
      Even if the win rate was "fine", it doesn't change the fact that furikoh is limited game warping and either other wild champions need big buffs or... you know what nevermind.

      furikoh must be fine!

      Yes it is good but for comparaison :
      - in the same 87 evo or 887 draft format, Adoni is as popular as Furiko and have a 57/60% win rate.
      - in 777 draft Puff was almost as popular as furiko is today and had a 55% win rate
      - in 65 evo and 665 draft, Ada was moe popular and had a 56/57%
      - in 55 evo gorn and lysander were as popular as furiko and had a 60/61%win rate
      - in 555 draft gorn was way more popular than furiko and got 57% win rate.

      So yes compared to all the top archetypes in previous formats, Furiko is already fine, performance wise. I could even argue : he is kind of underwhelming...
    • Gregangel wrote:

      Yes it is good but for comparaison :
      - in the same 87 evo or 887 draft format, Adoni is as popular as Furiko and have a 57/60% win rate.
      - in 777 draft Puff was almost as popular as furiko is today and had a 55% win rate
      - in 65 evo and 665 draft, Ada was moe popular and had a 56/57%
      - in 55 evo gorn and lysander were as popular as furiko and had a 60/61%win rate
      - in 555 draft gorn was way more popular than furiko and got 57% win rate.

      So yes compared to all the top archetypes in previous formats, Furiko is already fine, performance wise. I could even argue : he is kind of underwhelming...
      And all of those champions you are showing as example were nerfed. Furiko is likely to get same treatment, only question is how fast will it happen.
    • Gregangel wrote:

      FryChikN wrote:

      Gregangel wrote:

      i know people like to focus their hate toward the same target over and over. But Furiko in evo and in draft just got a 52/53% winrate.
      In the same range of every good class shard combo from any limited format.
      And far from the most efficient.
      that is pretty damn good though. you realize most of furikoh's matchups are mirror matches right.Even if the win rate was "fine", it doesn't change the fact that furikoh is limited game warping and either other wild champions need big buffs or... you know what nevermind.

      furikoh must be fine!
      Yes it is good but for comparaison :
      - in the same 87 evo or 887 draft format, Adoni is as popular as Furiko and have a 57/60% win rate.
      - in 777 draft Puff was almost as popular as furiko is today and had a 55% win rate
      - in 65 evo and 665 draft, Ada was moe popular and had a 56/57%
      - in 55 evo gorn and lysander were as popular as furiko and had a 60/61%win rate
      - in 555 draft gorn was way more popular than furiko and got 57% win rate.

      So yes compared to all the top archetypes in previous formats, Furiko is already fine, performance wise. I could even argue : he is kind of underwhelming...
      but you know that..
      Puff was considered as overpowered and got nerved with this set?
      Ada was considered as OP after the buff?
      Gorn was nerved since it was too strong?
      etc..
      furiko mostly just loses because he dont get to 7 shards - except you have a bonkers mill/momentum/verdict
      deck which doesnt happen too often - in limited esp. in sealed/evo you often have mediocre pools which are
      above average just with furiko.

      now ppl can say, screw you why dont you play furiko then, well thats what most ppl do and thats why evo
      is just boring and meh in this set.
      Austrian Kickstarter & Slacker Backer
      -=] Dont mess with the bull, you gonna get the horn [=-
    • I kinda want Furiko to stay the way she is because R/D can be obnoxious in draft, but at the same time Furiko can make for some uninteresting matches in sealed. All things considered, I'd love it if Adoni got nerfed before Furiko.

      Iono, nerfing things is a touchy subject.
    • Yasi wrote:

      I kinda want Furiko to stay the way she is because R/D can be obnoxious in draft, but at the same time Furiko can make for some uninteresting matches in sealed. All things considered, I'd love it if Adoni got nerfed before Furiko.

      Iono, nerfing things is a touchy subject.
      I am stupid and I don't understand...what does Furiko have to do with R/D? My assumption is that Furiko's hero power is a good tool to keep up with the growing candlekins?

      ThufirHawat wrote:

      Nerfing Adoni has some unpleasant implications for constructed. It leaves no good control champion in sapphire or diamond. I think Bardak and Renner would be a bit too far ahead of other champions for control decks then.
      Even if Adoni's hero power cost 4 instead of 3? What about HP nerf then? Although HP nerf would really screw with control deck in constructed.


      Gregangel wrote:

      Yes it is good but for comparaison :
      - in the same 87 evo or 887 draft format, Adoni is as popular as Furiko and have a 57/60% win rate.
      - in 777 draft Puff was almost as popular as furiko is today and had a 55% win rate
      - in 65 evo and 665 draft, Ada was moe popular and had a 56/57%
      - in 55 evo gorn and lysander were as popular as furiko and had a 60/61%win rate
      - in 555 draft gorn was way more popular than furiko and got 57% win rate.

      So yes compared to all the top archetypes in previous formats, Furiko is already fine, performance wise. I could even argue : he is kind of underwhelming...
      Adoni is the go-to champion for likely the best color-pair in 887(or at least the 2x set 8 packs). The high win rate is understandable. So is Puff being good with S/D and S/W, both super awesome color pairing. But you see, all these champions are good because they are the top archetypes and they synergize so much with their archetype. The only exception I see is Ada, which in sealed, is the go-to champion as long as you have Diamond, so kind of like Furiko, which is exactly why she was nerfed. I have zero issue with Ada in draft because Ada Air Force is a legit archetype and a very good one.

      Furiko, on the other hand, is an archetype on her own. She doesn't need synergy at all to be at 50% win rate. That's my biggest issue with her. I have no problem with charge-acceleration Furiko deck, cuz those I see as legit synergy. Draft 3 Verdant Rifts, go Furiko, sure, go ahead, if I lose to this I am fine. Have a Lixil, Heartsworn dand multiple Treat Machine? Furiko all your way up, it's cool. It's the "OMG this draft sucks, please save me Furiko" mediocre-yet-still-pull-off-wins-with-Furiko decks that make me despise this champion.


      Sethanon wrote:

      And all of those champions you are showing as example were nerfed. Furiko is likely to get same treatment, only question is how fast will it happen.
      I certainly hope you put up a statistic table on Furiko too, cuz I felt like your statistic for Ada certainly helped to encourage the nerfing of her.

      The post was edited 3 times, last by Goliathus ().

    • Goliathus wrote:

      I am stupid and I don't understand...what does Furiko have to do with R/D? My assumption is that Furiko's hero power is a good tool to keep up with the growing candlekins?
      Yeah, without Furiko you're basically left with R/D and Adoni where R/D beat everything except when Adoni get -1/-1 or sacrifice. Right now it's sort of;

      Furiko beat most things and loses to deathcry and adoni.
      Deathcry beat most things and loses to jank flyers.
      R/D beat most things and loses to Furiko and adoni.
      Adoni beat most things and loses when you verdict daybreak, sometimes.

      I think if every archetype listed above were to get a decent deck, deathcry would come out on top like 80% of the time.

      I still think Furiko should be nerfed because of EVO and sealed yada yada. I just don't know what the draft format will become without her.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Yasi ().

    • Personally I don't like 887.

      In sealed there is an abundance of Furiko though I don't think it's because Furiko is too strong but more because Wild has more generically good cards. Wild certainly has themed cards too like transform, fateweave and deathcry but a lot of those cards are good on their own (such as Go Nuts!). But other shards have themed cards which only work in their specific theme making a lot more of the cards situational. Unless they put Furiko's health into Zared's Range I would still mostly use Furiko even if the charges went up to 10, it's just the most reliable champion in Wild and Wild happens to be the most accessible shard. That isn't my main reason for not liking 887 though.

      I just don't like Verdict. I thought it looked good with the announcement but now I've played with and against it I just don't like it. For how abundant it is there are just not enough low hits for it. Of the 5 options both sides have the only ones which don't represent some form of card advantage or immediate impact on the board are the Daybreak or Nightfall options. And of those one in big enough quantities makes the opponent much harder to kill and the other puts you on a clock. There's been a number of games i've played where by turn 5 the verdict player (me or opponent) has drawn 2 or 3 cards, made the opponent discard 2 or 3 cards while having a few daybreak or nightfalls in play and if just isn't enjoyable to play against for me. I really wish the buffs weren't boardwide and instead random troop gets say +2/-2 depending on the side and it had another low end hit like 'Gain 3 health' and 'Lose 3 health' or another pair for gaining and losing charges (though the lose charges one may be a bit strong).

      If it wasn't for verdict I would be quite happy with the format though at least for the sealed queues.

      I can't say much for Draft-Gauntlet because I just don't enjoy Draft-Gauntlet regardless of the format so I don't play it.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Reeplay ().

    • Went 5-2 with this deck just now in EVO



      Champion was Soaring Talon. At 0-x I played D/R/W Furiko, at 1-x I played B/D/W Furiko, and at 3-x I switched to this. I faced two Furikos along the way. I wonder how people are suppose to even build a deck at 0-x and 1-x with these random synergistic cards. You either open all the verdicts, all the portals, all the illuminate, all the momentum, or you get like 1 piece of each and forced into Furiko. Iono, you and I are only one person and our experience are hardly indicative of what the current state of EVO and sealed are.

      EVO aint that fun either cuz yall some terribel deck builders.
    • Goliathus wrote:

      Sethanon wrote:

      And all of those champions you are showing as example were nerfed. Furiko is likely to get same treatment, only question is how fast will it happen.
      I certainly hope you put up a statistic table on Furiko too, cuz I felt like your statistic for Ada certainly helped to encourage the nerfing of her.

      Draft, Sealed and Evo statistics were already provided, so there is not much to add there. Only interesting data beyond that are actually statistics from Clashes. They are looking similar with avalanche of Furiko and Adoni. To get more insight you can switch to filter of at least 4 wins (to sort out those bad players who went Furiko or Adoni as last resort). If there were some other archetypes you would surely see them here, but instead you are getting following tables (sorted by match won %):

      Clash - 2017-12-04
      ChampionDecksMatchesMatches won %Representation
      Yarna of Lost Voices21478.60%5.0%
      Ixo the Primeval1771.40%2.5%
      Isabella the Cursed1771.40%2.5%
      Adoni-Zeddek149870.40%35.0%
      Furiko1510567.60%37.5%
      Cassia Goldenlight42864.30%10.0%
      Swampbutt1757.10%2.5%
      Puff the Rainbow1757.10%2.5%
      Plagueroot the Hollow1757.10%2.5%



      Clash - 2017-11-20
      ChampionDecksMatchesMatches won %Representation
      Papa Goot1875%2.5%
      Entity Unknown1875%2.5%
      Adoni-Zeddek75570.90%17.5%
      Furiko1310369.90%32.5%
      Lady Avalanche32369.60%7.5%
      Plagueroot the Hollow1862.50%2.5%
      Cassia Goldenlight64862.50%15.0%
      Isabella the Cursed1862.50%2.5%
      Swampbutt1862.50%2.5%
      Puff the Rainbow21656.30%5.0%
      Yarna of Lost Voices32454.20%7.5%
      Pharamedes1850%2.5%



      There certainly is not a lot of invention when it comes to champion selection except for few brave players or crazy pools with champion synergy (e.g. Yarna). Lack of diversity in TCG is never a good thing and choice of Adoni or Furiko is just too simple now! ;)

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Sethanon: Added single decimal, rounding was resulting in >100% representation ().

    • Furiko is definitely one of the stronger champions in limited.

      Played 2 EVOs this morning on a 1-0 run from the release week. Had Plagueroot for my 1-0 win, but decided to switch to Furiko because everyone kept saying how strong she was.

      Was able to easily win once I hit 7 shards. Both times I used her ability, I had 3-4 troops on board to buff. Opponents weren't able to block that much extra damage coming through.
      There was a signature here. It's gone now.
    • Well, these figures don't necessarily reflect that Adoni and Furiko are the best two champions in terms of winrate but that they are pretty consistent at a certain winrate.

      I think that especially Furiko is so strong because it is an overall good champion and doesn't require certain effects to be particularly strong. This is probably the reason why Furikos haven't performed particularly well against me in Drafts but might be the strongest champion in Evo/Sealed. You don't really need too many cards to make it work, which is typically good in Sealed. One weakness of Furiko, though, is early game pressure since you want to use cards like Palm of Granite to get to the champion power and such a card can become a big tempo loss on turn 3, especially when your opponent went first.

      At least from what I have experienced, the meta in draft seems quite balanced. I have seen and played several really strong decks and combos and still went "only" 2-1 with cards like the chaostouched coyotle in a full mill deck. I had overall many 3-0 although I don't know much about set 7 since I paused around the time it was released and the decks I had the best results with were not Furiko or Adoni but an illuminate deck with 17 illuminate cards in 8-8-8, a mediocre blightbark deck, a mediocre but extremely well controlling mill deck and, probably the best deck I ever played in a draft, a SWAMPBUTT deck with 3 Searing Spitfires. The deck burned people consistently to death by turn 6-9 and I easily went 3-0 against 2 Furikos and 1 mill deck, I think. It was absolutely disgusting how well the card draw and the swampgas + other burn and the spitfires killed opponents out of nowhere. In fact, I won one game by drawing into a total of 21 burst damage within one turn due to Theorize and a Runic Riddles that was on the board as a rune and a single Spitfire. So there is hope to beat Furiko before the champion power affects the board if you are fast enough.
    • GobBluth wrote:

      I'd be curious to know the win rate of the person on the play vs. on the draw. At least in evo it feels like the play has an advantage comparable to 555.
      I wouldn't say its that bad but it certainly is similar for certain matchups. First furiko to pop power will most likely win in the mirror for example. Beating a curving momentum deck on the draw also pretty hard.