Top 8 of the CCS Should be Constructed

    • i don't think us limited players even consider the ccs to be a competitive limited event in its current form

      drafters have basically been screwed over with how they've set up all the events in the game, including the abomination that is draft gauntlet
    • Fred wrote:

      JeffHoogland wrote:

      Again it depends on what the goal of an event like the CCS is.
      Unfortunately, the only viable way to do draft (without it turning into a completely different format) is to have exactly (a multiple of) 8 players. You can't guarantee what the turnout is going to be at the very beginning of the tournament, so you can't count on having full draft tables other than having a cut to top-8 (with all the tiebreaker problems that it brings, but that's a discussion for another thread).
      You can simply do 4 rounds of swiss constructed and then cut to top 64 for draft. This guarantees all players are present and actually makes everyone demonstrate both limited and constructed skill.

      I second the option that limited players have unfair disadvantage in current setup. Jeff's suggestion for Top 8 seems reasonable, but something needs to happen with previous rounds for this to fly ;)
    • I like high level, big prize constructed top 8 as much as anyone but draft format only works well on a high skill level in competitive events when you stick to the 8 man pod. Even having multiple pods of 8 still is not as good. I want more constructed only events, I do not want the ccs changed though as I really like the current setup they have.
    • I'm primary a constructed player, but mixed format events are a great way of showing how deep a player's skill is. Spending weeks practicing constructed decks, adjusting reserves, and learning how to play vs the field is great, but it isn't the only thing that makes you a good card game player. Calling limited bashing low power cards against each other is an insult to good limited players and really puts down their actual skill and achievement. Limited can really show how good a player is at maximising all game resoures. You have to be good at combat math, card economy, reading plays, etc. There are many "Core" skills tcg players neglect and actually succeed without because they can hide behind high power cards in constructed. For example many control players are actually terrible at combat math because it isn't as needed in the type of constructed decks they play.

      With all that said constructed Swiss into top 8 draft probably isn't the best way to measure skill. First four rounds limited sounds like a great way, but draft pods of that size lead to high variance. I would suggest a special 10 pack sealed. All players would get the same 10 packs. This would ensure a deep enough card pool that players have options. I would also suggest allowing during this special sealed phase only to be able to change champions between games(not rounds). Part of sealed and other limited formats is the ability to use the resources provided in the best way possible. Some of the best sealed players in magic actually change decks/colors completely during reserves if their 2nd deck in their pool is actually better in a matchup. The problem in hex and the reason you see this strategy used less is since champions are locked in you basicaly have to sacrifice your charge power to change decks, which in many cases is too high a cost. You can't maximise your resouces(the ultimate limited skill test) because of this.
    • I think Jeff is on the right track here. I would say make the first 3 rounds draft, and anyone without a win after the 3 rounds is eliminated for the following four rounds of constructed. (not that they would have a chance anyways). Everyone else continues on giving the slim hope that a 1-2 start could make the top 8.

      It would not be pod drafting so it would keep with the same type of drafting we currently have.
    • Swigmonkey wrote:

      I think Jeff is on the right track here. I would say make the first 3 rounds draft, and anyone without a win after the 3 rounds is eliminated for the following four rounds of constructed. (not that they would have a chance anyways). Everyone else continues on giving the slim hope that a 1-2 start could make the top 8.

      It would not be pod drafting so it would keep with the same type of drafting we currently have.
      Why wouldn't it be pod drafting? The only reason we have async draft is so that the rounds don't have to start at the same time, but if you're drafting in a tournament, there rounds aren't async anyways.
    • Interacting on these boards is incredibly frustrating.

      StewardUlk wrote:

      Simply cutting back on limited like you suggested would just upset the limited Players.
      Nowhere did I suggest cutting back on limited. In fact my post suggests adding more limited because everyone who plays would be required to play some limited in the event instead of just 8 people who have good constructed records.

      People who are good at / enjoy limited and are in the CCS should love my suggestion of everyone getting to play limited at every CCS.

      Fred wrote:

      Unfortunately, the only viable way to do draft (without it turning into a completely different format) is to have exactly (a multiple of) 8 players.

      You don't. A certain other major TCG has draft at their largest event without always having a multiple of 8 players
    • Biz wrote:

      i don't think us limited players even consider the ccs to be a competitive limited event in its current form

      drafters have basically been screwed over with how they've set up all the events in the game, including the abomination that is draft gauntlet
      Please stop derailing my threads. The draft gauntlets are real drafts they aren't pod drafts and that is OK. I get it - you prefer pod drafting - many of us don't care and just want the most time efficient option which async drafting provides.

      That is not the topic here - so please - if you need to complain about async draft somewhere go make your own thread for doing so.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Dinotropia: Be polite. ().

    • Pandaemonium wrote:

      I think Hex needs to make some changes to these forums more than ccs. I am not going to go into psychology and stuff but, I think it is time we put an end to name calling, toxicity and overbroad generalizations made at other people.
      If this is in reference to my use of "shit posting" I used it accurately.

      I didn't attack a user. I didn't call anyone a name. I described a behavior that a particular user engaged. This is far from the first post were Biz and other users have brought up async draft not being "real" drafting. Not only is this factually incorrect, it is off topic here and it is off topic in most of the places it gets brought up.
    • Strong disagree. There is a limited event, there is a constructed event.
      The CCS is a test of a players ability in a complete package. The players who win the CCS have proven themselves first in constructed and then in draft.

      I'm not saying that it is a competitive limited event for people who qualify on limited, but it is the most prestigious and highest payout event. Players must show their worth both in playing in an established metagame with their collection and also show their ability to adapt in a limited scenario once it comes down to the wire.

      It is perfect the way it is.

      Jeff, you don't like limited. That doesn't mean the ccs top 8 should be constructed too, it just means you don't want it to be.

      EDIT: Seriously the very notion of the fact that to win the biggest event you have to be multifaceted with your skillset is a no brainer.
    • Infamousneo wrote:

      Strong disagree. There is a limited event, there is a constructed event.
      The CCS is a test of a players ability in a complete package. The players who win the CCS have proven themselves first in constructed and then in draft.

      I'm not saying that it is a competitive limited event for people who qualify on limited, but it is the most prestigious and highest payout event. Players must show their worth both in playing in an established metagame with their collection and also show their ability to adapt in a limited scenario once it comes down to the wire.

      It is perfect the way it is.

      Jeff, you don't like limited. That doesn't mean the ccs top 8 should be constructed too, it just means you don't want it to be.

      EDIT: Seriously the very notion of the fact that to win the biggest event you have to be multifaceted with your skillset is a no brainer.
      The suggestion in my first post literally adds more limited to the event. It makes everyone play it instead of just 8. I've said over and over again in this post that I think the event being multi-format is good and important.

      The start of this thread is based on the objective data that draft is less popular as a viewer compared to constructed in TCGs. The goal of moving the top 8 to constructed makes the largest Hex event better for coverage.
    • I'm just not sure that is the solution. Adding limited to the start of the event gets more people playing, but it doesn't really help with coverage.

      You could make the argument that kicking things off with a format that less people want to watch would damage the viewership for the event in the long run. Turn people away at the start and perhaps they find something else to do instead of watching.

      While i like the idea of limited making some impact on actually getting to the top 8 it makes a long day even longer. These events are many rounds long with the top 8 taking place on day 2. Adding a limited portion to the event will only exacerbate this and that will also hurt the coverage.
      Starting weak and then dragging out the day to an even longer one.

      I think the draft top 8 solution is just neater, there will always be 8 people for the top 8. And coverage for the top 8 doesn't need to be done the same way.
      People tend to agree that watching the draft portion of a limited event is the most interesting. If it can somehow be worked for this to be possible, with coverage taking place after the top 8 has ended and the results hidden in client I think this would be great to watch.
      Commentating on choices that will affect games to come is pretty interesting.

      Maybe even do things the same was as the invitational with a cut to top 8 draft, and then the top 4 from the draft play a final 4 man constructed event once more.
      This would also turn the day 2 coverage into something more than a flash in the pan.
    • I think the big problem is that the current structure of the event doesn't select for both limited and constructed skill. Instead it selects for constructed skill and then divides the winnings based on limited skill.

      If you want to have a skill testing mixed format event that's great! Sign me up, but at this point the CCS isn't one.
    • Constructed into Limited is not fair on the limited players. Players who qualified for Constructed will have more experience with the Constructed meta. Even if it can be argued that the percentage is small due to players requiring some skillset to play the game, there's no denying that there's an advantage to playing constructed for 2 months as opposed to 1 week preparing for the CCS.

      As for what Jeff suggested, I can't agree or disagree without first seeing the CCS format changed where it doesn't fuck limited players over.