New Arena is not FUN!

    • New Arena is not FUN!

      Arena was a great way to introduce Hex to my friends.

      But now, when I introduce it through Arena, for them to like Hex, I have to stop the Arena challange after first boss, otherwise they will get frustrated.

      They say it feels very unfair. They made a constant deck, and their opponent turns all their constants into dreadlings. They make a crypt-animator theme, to find out that their opponent removes all their graveyard with their passive.

      Difficuly wise, its like also, 1st bracket is difficulty 1/10 and then 2nd bracet is like 8/10. I would really suggest a smoother transition..

      And looking at new Arena, it makes me wonder... is it really not possible to make good A.I opponents WITHOUT insane unfair passives and hero powers?
    • The campaign is a much better place for new players to start. The new FRA is not catered to new players, that's just how it is. As for the A.I. bit, no, you can't. Players get to use any card combination we want, along with equipment. No matter how good an A.I. you make (and Hex arguably has the most sophisticated one on CCG/TCG market), it will be limited in capability. The encounters have to be unfair, or there is no challenge to beating them.
      Herr, schmeiß Hirn oder Steine! Hauptsache du triffst!
    • I had a friend, who has been playing MTG for 20 years, so I tried to get him into Hex.. we didnt meet up, he played from his home

      He played the campaign one evening, but next day he was not playing Hex anymore... I asked him, you did not like it?

      He sayd he encountered stuff that there was no way his cards could handle. So he met the piranha swarm in the river and decided to quit right after and I didnt force him to retry the game again...

      Another friend made a bit more far.. 2nd act, he finished the gnolls dungeon (the vote for Queen).. and quit after that.., also playing from his home

      I wonder if developers have statistics how many accounts have gone inactive trying a bit of campaign..

      Dont get me wrong, Hex is great game and rich, really rich in content.. but as now, the PvE part is weaker than before... we need engaging PvE content to complement the PvP one
    • Piranhas is signposted as a difficult encounter, it's not meant to be doable early... it's one of the few cases where they actually signposted something as optional challenge somewhat well....


      But ya, overall, the difficulty curve of Hex's pve is something they REALLY need to work on. The decks they give you are boring, weak, and don't really give a good foundation to build on. The content ramps up surprisingly quickly at certain parts. Mercenaries are unlocked way too late. And you don't really get any relevant power upgrades from quests unless you're shin'hare, coyotle, or vennen. The rest of the AZ1 racial cards are either really weak or really difficult to make good use of. There is also no logical power progression... it's all built around the auction house, but nothing ever points you there. And then there's the Arena...... which is a bit of a mess right now.
      Gamer. Streamer. Photographer. Writer. Anime Lover. Possessor of Stuffed Animals.

      Also... I'm terrible at this game.
    • Point towards AH?

      I have a story about that too,

      another friend of mine, he started campaign with elves and some after failing at burning zombies dungeon he went on AH and bought some 3x rare elf with platinum! to help him out (it might have been Festival barkers or something like that), only to discover that he cant add all of them to deck, because of quantity limitations. He did quit after that

      so if it is supposed to point you towards AH, you should not have deck limitations like that.
    • korog wrote:

      so if it is supposed to point you towards AH, you should not have deck limitations like that.
      It should point towards AH after giving people enough time to learn how to build decks within the game, so they know the restrictions. It's all in how it's handled really.

      If you just, day one, push people to the AH... they'll be upset. But if you give them some loot, show them how to add things to their deck, give them time to understand the restrictions, THEN guide people to the AH in a smooth manner... it'll usually go differently.

      The problem is entirely with the lack of an appropriate and fluid set of guideposts for players.
      Gamer. Streamer. Photographer. Writer. Anime Lover. Possessor of Stuffed Animals.

      Also... I'm terrible at this game.
    • Limestone wrote:

      Utremeld wrote:

      Shard grid restrictions just say "Play a Merc" instead of bothering to build a deck prior to level 15, it's not a good system.
      Restriction breeds creativity. It's the reason why lots of veteran players are interested in the rock format.

      I agree with both of you. Restriction is good in a lot of formats, but after my very first character, I never again leveled using my toon. Instead, I just grab my Diamond Wins Aethynia deck and plow through until I hit level 15 and get to play the deck that I wanted in the first place. I don't know how you could fix it, really.

      Shard grid points, maybe? Like, here's 30 points. You can now build a deck with 0 of any card. Buying a one-of common would be 1 point, two-of would be 2 or whatever, until you could (eventually maybe?) unlock 4 of anything. You could keep the unique grid alignments by making the races pay different amounts for different things. Like Elves buy Wild and Ruby Legendaries the cheapest at the base rate, but artifacts require triple the points to invest. That way if someone wanted to make an elf outcast artificer, because say they wanted acceleration from an elf warrior's battle because their deck idea is great but is just a couple turns too slow, then they could. It would just take proportionally more investment relative to other races. Because we all need a diamond based vennen mage.

      This way preserves the feeling of progression but with a choice. If someone wants to go to the AH and spend their christmas cash on 4x Bomb Legendary du Jour, then they can slot it into their deck early on...if they don't mind monosharding with 2-of commons and 1-of uncommons and rares!
    • Utremeld wrote:

      Shard grid restrictions just say "Play a Merc" instead of bothering to build a deck prior to level 15, it's not a good system.
      +1

      Limestone wrote:

      Restriction breeds creativity.
      +1

      Restriction is good but shard grid, as implemented, is terrible: not intuitive, don't know how it evolves, meaningless with mercs, and if I have correctly understood, at level 30, all characters will have a grid with no more restriction...

      Maybe this should be deleted to get a full sandbox.

      Then, Hexent would have to add new modes with restrictions.
    • Tartako wrote:



      Restriction is good but shard grid, as implemented, is terrible: not intuitive, don't know how it evolves, meaningless with mercs, and if I have correctly understood, at level 30, all characters will have a grid with no more restriction...

      Maybe this should be deleted to get a full sandbox.

      Then, Hexent would have to add new modes with restrictions.
      I completely disagree with this.

      I personally find it quite intuitive. There's a magnifying glass on the shard-grid that shows you how it changes as your character levels up. Every single talent and race-class combo trait with the exception of the 3 or so that effect mercenaries are meaningless with mercs, so singling out the shard-grid alone doesn't make sense.

      As for Arena, I really enjoy the new arena. Are there a few encounters in need of some minor tuning? Yes. But overall I find the power level of the arena to be in a very good place for advanced players, which is what the Arena is currently marketed for. I have to actually put in effort to make decks that work instead of just throwing together whatever mess I want and expecting to do just fine. Whenever I start to test a new archetype to try to make a new deck for the arena, it's a challenge and that's what I'm looking for.
    • Monthieu wrote:

      Limestone wrote:

      Utremeld wrote:

      Shard grid restrictions just say "Play a Merc" instead of bothering to build a deck prior to level 15, it's not a good system.
      Restriction breeds creativity. It's the reason why lots of veteran players are interested in the rock format.
      I agree with both of you. Restriction is good in a lot of formats, but after my very first character, I never again leveled using my toon. Instead, I just grab my Diamond Wins Aethynia deck and plow through until I hit level 15 and get to play the deck that I wanted in the first place. I don't know how you could fix it, really.

      Shard grid points, maybe? Like, here's 30 points. You can now build a deck with 0 of any card. Buying a one-of common would be 1 point, two-of would be 2 or whatever, until you could (eventually maybe?) unlock 4 of anything. You could keep the unique grid alignments by making the races pay different amounts for different things. Like Elves buy Wild and Ruby Legendaries the cheapest at the base rate, but artifacts require triple the points to invest. That way if someone wanted to make an elf outcast artificer, because say they wanted acceleration from an elf warrior's battle because their deck idea is great but is just a couple turns too slow, then they could. It would just take proportionally more investment relative to other races. Because we all need a diamond based vennen mage.

      This way preserves the feeling of progression but with a choice. If someone wants to go to the AH and spend their christmas cash on 4x Bomb Legendary du Jour, then they can slot it into their deck early on...if they don't mind monosharding with 2-of commons and 1-of uncommons and rares!
      So why do you play Campaign with different characters at all? Playing with an overpowered Mercenary instead of your champion, is like using a cheat code. You know you don't have to do that, but you do it anyway.

      Maybe I just don't understand the mentality of some PVE players, who instead of trying to play with a variety of decks and equipments, just want to play the fastest gold grinding deck possible. (Hey new players, roll a Vennen Ranger to play Big Spider, or Elf Warrior to play Xocoy Fateweave).

      The OP complains about how the Arena stifles deck creation because they have a single bad match up! Yes, some decks are worse against other decks, however you have 3 lives. Just skip that encounter and go to the next.
      You are not meant to be able to complete the arena on the first run (should I curse 'f**king millennials' under my breath ;) )

      If PVE players are just searching for the optimal gold grinding deck, then why should Hex bother creating different PVE races, different champions etc, when you just want to play the fastest grind deck over and over?
    • Steric wrote:

      Tartako wrote:

      Restriction is good but shard grid, as implemented, is terrible: not intuitive, don't know how it evolves, meaningless with mercs, and if I have correctly understood, at level 30, all characters will have a grid with no more restriction...

      Maybe this should be deleted to get a full sandbox.

      Then, Hexent would have to add new modes with restrictions.
      I completely disagree with this.
      I personally find it quite intuitive. There's a magnifying glass on the shard-grid that shows you how it changes as your character levels up. Every single talent and race-class combo trait with the exception of the 3 or so that effect mercenaries are meaningless with mercs, so singling out the shard-grid alone doesn't make sense.
      2 good points: the grid UI is fine and restrictions are in line with the lore.

      But:
      - for newbies, this is another system to understand and manage (and Hex is already hardcore)
      - at high level, restrictions tend to disappear and all races-classes will be the same, so why bother...
      - it's not intuitive in the sense that there is no logic, each grid progression is ad hoc
      - there is no other restriction (why allowing underworld creatures in ardent decks ?) that would create a strong identity of each race-class combo, or a sense of adventure (the ability to use my full collection makes the game soooo easy)

      For me, it's a half cooked system, too complicated.
    • Neverness wrote:

      Monthieu wrote:

      Limestone wrote:

      Utremeld wrote:

      Shard grid restrictions just say "Play a Merc" instead of bothering to build a deck prior to level 15, it's not a good system.
      Restriction breeds creativity. It's the reason why lots of veteran players are interested in the rock format.
      I agree with both of you. Restriction is good in a lot of formats, but after my very first character, I never again leveled using my toon. Instead, I just grab my Diamond Wins Aethynia deck and plow through until I hit level 15 and get to play the deck that I wanted in the first place. I don't know how you could fix it, really.
      Shard grid points, maybe? Like, here's 30 points. You can now build a deck with 0 of any card. Buying a one-of common would be 1 point, two-of would be 2 or whatever, until you could (eventually maybe?) unlock 4 of anything. You could keep the unique grid alignments by making the races pay different amounts for different things. Like Elves buy Wild and Ruby Legendaries the cheapest at the base rate, but artifacts require triple the points to invest. That way if someone wanted to make an elf outcast artificer, because say they wanted acceleration from an elf warrior's battle because their deck idea is great but is just a couple turns too slow, then they could. It would just take proportionally more investment relative to other races. Because we all need a diamond based vennen mage.

      This way preserves the feeling of progression but with a choice. If someone wants to go to the AH and spend their christmas cash on 4x Bomb Legendary du Jour, then they can slot it into their deck early on...if they don't mind monosharding with 2-of commons and 1-of uncommons and rares!
      So why do you play Campaign with different characters at all? Playing with an overpowered Mercenary instead of your champion, is like using a cheat code. You know you don't have to do that, but you do it anyway.
      Maybe I just don't understand the mentality of some PVE players, who instead of trying to play with a variety of decks and equipments, just want to play the fastest gold grinding deck possible. (Hey new players, roll a Vennen Ranger to play Big Spider, or Elf Warrior to play Xocoy Fateweave).

      The OP complains about how the Arena stifles deck creation because they have a single bad match up! Yes, some decks are worse against other decks, however you have 3 lives. Just skip that encounter and go to the next.
      You are not meant to be able to complete the arena on the first run (should I curse 'f**king millennials' under my breath ;) )

      If PVE players are just searching for the optimal gold grinding deck, then why should Hex bother creating different PVE races, different champions etc, when you just want to play the fastest grind deck over and over?
      Buddy, I was trying to hit level 15 so I could play some janky mimic deck! I could have played what I wanted from the beginning if we had a choice in our shard grid beyond race choice. My idea gives you the possibility to play all kinds of variety of decks with all kinds of champions! There's already a ton of power decks. I would love to see the thematic possibility of a Dwarf Ranger who really likes trees and goes rogue to make a monowild ramp deck just for laughs! There's a line between take it or leave it and maaaaybe we can improve variety and retention this way or that way.
    • Neverness wrote:

      Monthieu wrote:

      Limestone wrote:

      Utremeld wrote:

      Shard grid restrictions just say "Play a Merc" instead of bothering to build a deck prior to level 15, it's not a good system.
      Restriction breeds creativity. It's the reason why lots of veteran players are interested in the rock format.
      I agree with both of you. Restriction is good in a lot of formats, but after my very first character, I never again leveled using my toon. Instead, I just grab my Diamond Wins Aethynia deck and plow through until I hit level 15 and get to play the deck that I wanted in the first place. I don't know how you could fix it, really.
      Shard grid points, maybe? Like, here's 30 points. You can now build a deck with 0 of any card. Buying a one-of common would be 1 point, two-of would be 2 or whatever, until you could (eventually maybe?) unlock 4 of anything. You could keep the unique grid alignments by making the races pay different amounts for different things. Like Elves buy Wild and Ruby Legendaries the cheapest at the base rate, but artifacts require triple the points to invest. That way if someone wanted to make an elf outcast artificer, because say they wanted acceleration from an elf warrior's battle because their deck idea is great but is just a couple turns too slow, then they could. It would just take proportionally more investment relative to other races. Because we all need a diamond based vennen mage.

      This way preserves the feeling of progression but with a choice. If someone wants to go to the AH and spend their christmas cash on 4x Bomb Legendary du Jour, then they can slot it into their deck early on...if they don't mind monosharding with 2-of commons and 1-of uncommons and rares!
      So why do you play Campaign with different characters at all? Playing with an overpowered Mercenary instead of your champion, is like using a cheat code. You know you don't have to do that, but you do it anyway.
      Maybe I just don't understand the mentality of some PVE players, who instead of trying to play with a variety of decks and equipments, just want to play the fastest gold grinding deck possible. (Hey new players, roll a Vennen Ranger to play Big Spider, or Elf Warrior to play Xocoy Fateweave).

      The OP complains about how the Arena stifles deck creation because they have a single bad match up! Yes, some decks are worse against other decks, however you have 3 lives. Just skip that encounter and go to the next.
      You are not meant to be able to complete the arena on the first run (should I curse 'f**king millennials' under my breath ;) )

      If PVE players are just searching for the optimal gold grinding deck, then why should Hex bother creating different PVE races, different champions etc, when you just want to play the fastest grind deck over and over?
      Probably because having to build a jank version of the thematic deck I want to use on that character and then rebuild it every 30 minutes until it hits level 12 is what I would consider "a massive waste of my time and energy when I can just grind it to 12 and then do it." This is criminally simple to understand, what part of this mentality escapes you?

      Also the Arena blows chunks because it isn't difficult or challenging, it just hoses you sometimes. Even HexEnt agreed that their champions in the arena were overtuned and were supposed to fix them at some point, lord knows when because that was months ago it feels like, so everyone knows the Arena is bad right now. There is no reason for an encounter to become unwinnable just because of the deck type you brought in and the Arena ALREADY invalidates any deck slower than a t4 win, consistently, because of how aggro heavy most opponents or or how many assistances they get to combo early.

      We're not searching for optimal gold grinding, we're asking for the game to actually accomodate styles of play without jumping through hoops and the shard grid is one of those things that I wish went away when dungeon lives did.
    • Utremeld wrote:

      Probably because having to build a jank version of the thematic deck I want to use on that character and then rebuild it every 30 minutes until it hits level 12 is what I would consider "a massive waste of my time and energy when I can just grind it to 12 and then do it." This is criminally simple to understand, what part of this mentality escapes you?

      Also the Arena blows chunks because it isn't difficult or challenging, it just hoses you sometimes. Even HexEnt agreed that their champions in the arena were overtuned and were supposed to fix them at some point, lord knows when because that was months ago it feels like, so everyone knows the Arena is bad right now. There is no reason for an encounter to become unwinnable just because of the deck type you brought in and the Arena ALREADY invalidates any deck slower than a t4 win, consistently, because of how aggro heavy most opponents or or how many assistances they get to combo early.

      We're not searching for optimal gold grinding, we're asking for the game to actually accomodate styles of play without jumping through hoops and the shard grid is one of those things that I wish went away when dungeon lives did.
      I, personally, wish the shard grid was more of a permanent thing, but not just 4/4/4/4/4/etc.

      I wish they'd created non-standard setups for each race(or possibly even each race/class combo)... say... Elves can't use Sapphire. But get 1 extra ruby/wild slot, and 2 extra ruby/wild legendary.

      Orcs can use 3 extra ruby/blood common, but can only splash diamond(2/2/2/2).

      etc...

      But Hex seems committed to the 4/4/4/4 long-term even in PvE so that'll never happen. But man it'd be cool.

      As far as arena... ya, I agree with you completely. It's a mess right now. I finally found a deck that isn't mill that is somewhat reliable at it... but it's still not exactly fun.
      Gamer. Streamer. Photographer. Writer. Anime Lover. Possessor of Stuffed Animals.

      Also... I'm terrible at this game.
    • Eraia wrote:


      I wish they'd created non-standard setups for each race(or possibly even each race/class combo)... say... Elves can't use Sapphire. But get 1 extra ruby/wild slot, and 2 extra ruby/wild legendary.

      Orcs can use 3 extra ruby/blood common, but can only splash diamond(2/2/2/2).

      etc...

      But Hex seems committed to the 4/4/4/4 long-term even in PvE so that'll never happen. But man it'd be cool.

      As far as arena... ya, I agree with you completely. It's a mess right now. I finally found a deck that isn't mill that is somewhat reliable at it... but it's still not exactly fun.
      THAT is an amazing idea. I wonder what kind of design space could be opened up with more than 4 of available to players...
    • Yeah, letting shard grids go beyond 4 would be nice and allow for meaningful progression at the higher levels, but it leads to a ton of awkwardness in that it means that players want 5 or 6 copies of specific cards that they'd otherwise never have a use for more than 4 of.
    • Steric wrote:

      Yeah, letting shard grids go beyond 4 would be nice and allow for meaningful progression at the higher levels, but it leads to a ton of awkwardness in that it means that players want 5 or 6 copies of specific cards that they'd otherwise never have a use for more than 4 of.
      It probably would've needed to be something done from square one... an expectation set that you may need up to x copies of cards for pve... it's too late for it now, even if Hex were interested, unless they want to do a big reprint run on sets 1/2(and soon 3/4).
      Gamer. Streamer. Photographer. Writer. Anime Lover. Possessor of Stuffed Animals.

      Also... I'm terrible at this game.
    • Utremeld wrote:

      the Arena ALREADY invalidates any deck slower than a t4 win
      I did two control deck recently that work perfectly fine in the Arena
      For the curious one :
      Video (Wintermoon) (in french)

      Decklist
      hex.tcgbrowser.com/#!/deck=7384dd4f80ad06e0b987cac9613a5606

      Video (Dreaming Fox) (in french)

      Decklist
      hex.tcgbrowser.com/#!/deck=93123ff10a4263f40cb7d76aaad517e9

      And I obviously don't win t4



      Eraia wrote:

      I, personally, wish the shard grid was more of a permanent thing, but not just 4/4/4/4/4/etc.

      I wish they'd created non-standard setups for each race(or possibly even each race/class combo)... say... Elves can't use Sapphire. But get 1 extra ruby/wild slot, and 2 extra ruby/wild legendary.

      Orcs can use 3 extra ruby/blood common, but can only splash diamond(2/2/2/2).
      I would love to see that, it make perfect sense.

      I don't mind having shard restriction, it seem logical to me, your deck become better as long as your champion with lvl.
      I think mercenary are here for people who don't like those restriction but want to brew some deck with high lvl champion.


      About the subject of this thread
      I disagree, I like a lot the Arena and it's for me a nice "End game content" for now. In the other hand I agree that some Elite champ need little changement but it's for me in the big picture better than the old arena.

      I understand player who find it to difficult and I think it will be nice to have some different difficulties for the Arena (like an easier with no Elite)



      korog wrote:

      He sayd he encountered stuff that there was no way his cards could handle. So he met the piranha swarm in the river and decided to quit right after and I didnt force him to retry the game again...

      Another friend made a bit more far.. 2nd act, he finished the gnolls dungeon (the vote for Queen).. and quit after that.., also playing from his home

      I wonder if developers have statistics how many accounts have gone inactive trying a bit of campaign..

      korog wrote:

      another friend of mine, he started campaign with elves and some after failing at burning zombies dungeon he went on AH and bought some 3x rare elf with platinum! to help him out (it might have been Festival barkers or something like that), only to discover that he cant add all of them to deck, because of quantity limitations. He did quit after that

      so if it is supposed to point you towards AH, you should not have deck limitations like that.
      I think your friend was not really interrested in the game in the first place or it's not the game for them.
      Because quitting after one encounter or just because you bought too many Festival barkers it's a very very little excuse.

      We may accept the fact that Hex is not for everyone even if it's (for me) the best TCG out.


      korog wrote:

      They say it feels very unfair. They made a constant deck, and their opponent turns all their constants into dreadlings. They make a crypt-animator theme, to find out that their opponent removes all their graveyard with their passive.
      I have a constant deck who work and a reanimator deck who work, it's just one encounter, if you beat the other I don't see a problem.