Dungeoncrawler worthless with no real updates on PvE...?

    • The only thing I've been dying for is raids. Which is bottom barrel in upcoming. Me and two friends backed. We were huge fans of WoWTCG raid decks. I'm the only one who still plays. We've played 2 WoWTCG raids and 5 or 6 emperor/megastack/two headed giant Magic games in the last year though. I'm in love with this game because there's always an amazing new deck to build and play and marvel at. My lady sees me play HEX on weekends and wants to learn to play because it looks super cool. When I say we can't play together yet, she says ok and goes back to stardew valley instead of asking me to teach her how to play.

      The programming necessary for multiplayer is insane. Understood. But I remember MTGO having two headed giant back in 2005 with a client that was made out of two rusty tin cans, microsoft bob, word 95, and a memory leak the size of the titanic.

      Maybe if we can't get the connect at the same time stuff, we could get some sort of...asynchronized PvE? Fighting two fronts of a giant battle, getting split up in a dungeon, etc. Just like running a normal dungeon, except every few nodes we can throw some bonus our buddy's way or throw a switch to open a path for them or something. It's chess by mail, but it's something.
    • "The programming necessary for multiplayer is insane. Understood."

      If only there had been some way to predict that Hex would need multiplayer, and design the program from the ground up to include it. Maybe a road-map or an outline of some sort...

      Nope. It was a complete mystery for the developers, until the players started asking, randomly, for one of the major features the developers said would make their game stand out from the crowd.

      How could HexEnt have predicted that they would need to program in co-op multiplayer?

      If you can't tell, 'It's hard to program' doesn't make me sympathetic when the original plan was for the game to include co-op dungeon. Just another pungent example of HexEnt's numerous failures when it comes to organization.

      Edit: Just so I'm not being negative, a bit of constructive suggestions. Not all are multiplayer, but all would extend PvE.

      Nodes on the overmap where the community has to fight X number of battles and everyone gets a bonus. Use the node after Smouldering Dead, where the zombies overran the guards. Have a tracker that shows how many zombies the community has killed. Reset it each week and give out an AA or a Smouldering Dead pack to any participant.

      Co-Op Dungeons. Have a dungeon with three separate paths, or branching paths. Each of the three teammates plays their own 1v1 games but the outcomes determine what happens in the dungeon. One player needs to seal the barracks. If they fail boss monster gets additional troops at the start of the fight. Other player has to play a game were they need to hold the door. Last X number of turns or your allies' next battle the had less time to prepare for and the get a smaller starting hand.

      Rotating Dungeon: The fracturing of Frostheart has created rifts in the world. One of the larger ones has appeared in the Aclean Sea, dragging places from Entrath's past and future into the present. The rift is unstable and constantly changing. A new dungeon appears every month/two months, with its own packs and equipment. Random new dungeon appears at the end of the month. Can use recycled content and still be fresh, once 2-4 dungeons are in the rotation.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Darklight ().

    • Darklight wrote:

      "The programming necessary for multiplayer is insane. Understood."

      If only there had been some way to predict that Hex would need multiplayer, and design the program from the ground up to include it. Maybe a road-map or an outline of some sort...

      Nope. It was a complete mystery for the developers, until the players started asking, randomly, for one of the major features the developers said would make their game stand out from the crowd.

      How could HexEnt have predicted that they would need to program in co-op multiplayer?

      If you can't tell, 'It's hard to program' doesn't make me sympathetic when the original plan was for the game to include co-op dungeon. Just another pungent example of HexEnt's numerous failures when it comes to organization.
      That is a fairly presumptuous statement to make.

      You are frustrated, that much is clear. You feel like they should have been further in development, got it. You wish the game would be something else right now, sure.

      These are perfectly legitimate feelings. Notice that you don't have to be insulting to anyone to share them.

      Insulting the developers and Cory's intentions or competence is not going to get you anywhere though. And it is certainly not going to help improve the game's situation nor will it help further the purpose of this discussion.
      [Blocked Image: http://wardens.hexcompendium.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/cropped-wardens-of-entraht-logo-tranparent.png]
      The Wardens of Entrath is a large, open to public community of Hex enthusiasts with a mission to help and support Hex players and content creators alike!

      Find us on our Discord server or website!
    • Wolzarg wrote:

      I'm not disagreeing with the last part but if people live their life crying about missed sales they will always be miserable. Every other week or so a different kind of cheese at my store is discounted down to a specific price. One of these is my favorite and also has the biggest discounts. Doesn't mean I'm going to sit in a isle in the store sulking if i missed it.
      Yes, but then imagine while that person who missed the sale is upset...

      the guy who bought it on sale comes in and starts complaining that he ONLY got 50% off and wants even more for free...

      What is the first person going to think?
      Gamer. Streamer. Photographer. Writer. Anime Lover. Possessor of Stuffed Animals.

      Also... I'm terrible at this game.
    • Vroengard wrote:

      4 years is a very long time for them to say they are practically at 0%.

      Is multiplayer the squaring of the circle for card games?
      That is an excellent question. I never really tried too many other digital TCGs but do we have a "gold standard" somewhere that would be a good analog for what Hex multiplayer could be (PVE wise)?
      [Blocked Image: http://wardens.hexcompendium.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/cropped-wardens-of-entraht-logo-tranparent.png]
      The Wardens of Entrath is a large, open to public community of Hex enthusiasts with a mission to help and support Hex players and content creators alike!

      Find us on our Discord server or website!
    • From all the interviews I've seen, Programming the multiplayer is not a problem.
      Most, if not all of the infrastructure is already there. They could put in 2v2 tomorrow. *well maybe not TOMORROW but you get the idea.*

      The actual problem is designing the multiplayer UI, and gameflow.
      Cory has said multiple times that all their internal testing slowed the game down to a crawl.
      We'll get it once they figure out a way to speed it up, without compromising depth.

      Personally, I've always thought that was silly.
      I mean just give us the clunky slow awkward 2v2 modes.
      The game is already a clunker, come on man.

      You can just fix it later. Plus the community might come up with interesting solutions once we get our hands on it.

      TL;DR - I want 2v2 primal drafting.
    • Eraia wrote:

      Wolzarg wrote:

      I'm not disagreeing with the last part but if people live their life crying
      the guy who bought it on sale comes in and starts complaining that he ONLY got 50% off and wants even more for free...
      It's more like the guy who 'bought it on sale' bought Bitcoin five years ago and now everyone else is complaining that Bitcoin is more expensive than five years ago.

      Or, it's closer to the guy who 'bought it on sale' put in an online order for groceries. He orders eggs, milk, steak, veggies and rice and waits for them to be delivered. The groceries show up, but it's only the rice, eggs and milk. The grocery says "we've had some supply difficulties, if you wait a bit, we can get you the rest of your order."

      The customer appreciated the honesty and the food that was delivered was high quality. So he waits. His neighbor noticed how nice the eggs were and how fresh the milk was, and decides to order from the same place. The next delivery comes, the grocer gives the neighbor his eggs and milk, but sadly shakes his head at the original customer. 'Nothing else is in yet'.

      Next week, the neighbor happily orders more eggs and milk and, when the grocer comes around he happily hands the original customer a single carrot. "We're still working on your order."

      Are you going to tell that original customer not to be upset about the poor service, after a while?

      Coach Fliperon:
      "That is a fairly presumptuous statement to make.

      You are frustrated, that much is clear. You feel like they should have been further in development, got it. You wish the game would be something else right now, sure.

      These are perfectly legitimate feelings. Notice that you don't have to be insulting to anyone to share them.

      Insulting the developers and Cory's intentions or competence is not going to get you anywhere though. And it is certainly not going to help improve the game's situation nor will it help further the purpose of this discussion."

      See my comment above, about having ordered something that was never delivered to understand a bit of the frustration.

      Add to that Cory's excuse for having seemingly none of the multiplayer work done is 'It is hard and complicated to program into the existing framework.' That seems a poor excuse, considering multiplayer was always a key element of the design. It was one of the major selling points, Co-op and raids.

      There was no name calling, personal insults or, I feel, disproportional response, so I don't think I was being insulting or rude (people seem to throw that accusation around a lot here). I'm just pointing out that, if that is HexEnt's excuse, it is a very poor one. They came to us with the plan for multiplayer components; it's not something the community demanded later on. The fact that they apparently didn't plan it into the design from the ground up shows a shocking level of negligence.

      And it's not me wishing for the product to be different. I was literally sold on a different product and am disappointed that it has not been delivered.

      Meanwhile, I support Hex as it is with purchases each set, because it is a fantastic game. But it's not the product my original purchase went towards.

      If Cory came out tomorrow and said "No co-op, raids, or multiplayer, ever." I'd be disappointed, but you wouldn't see me talking about a failed project that was promised half a decade ago.

      It's that Hex keeps JUST enough hope alive by saying 'The band's going to make it!', while actual evidence suggests otherwise on PvE that is frustrating.

      It's kind of feeling like they are stringing along the PvE diehards because there are not enough of us to cater too, but enough of us that, if we left, the game would die.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Darklight ().

    • Darklight wrote:

      It's kind of feeling like they are stringing along the PvE diehards because there are not enough of us to cater too, but enough of us that, if we left, the game would die.
      This is exactly what it feels like and I don't understand why there isn't some official statement (to directly address the communities concerns rather than bits and pieces in interviews/blogs/forum posts etc) to reassure those that dig the (promised and backed) PVE side of the game that they *are* still working towards the carrots that were dangled all those years ago.

      Where is the roadmap, seriously?
    • Darklight wrote:

      It's more like the guy who 'bought it on sale' bought Bitcoin five years ago and now everyone else is complaining that Bitcoin is more expensive than five years ago.

      Or, it's closer to the guy who 'bought it on sale' put in an online order for groceries. He orders eggs, milk, steak, veggies and rice and waits for them to be delivered. The groceries show up, but it's only the rice, eggs and milk. The grocery says "we've had some supply difficulties, if you wait a bit, we can get you the rest of your order."

      The customer appreciated the honesty and the food that was delivered was high quality. So he waits. His neighbor noticed how nice the eggs were and how fresh the milk was, and decides to order from the same place. The next delivery comes, the grocer gives the neighbor his eggs and milk, but sadly shakes his head at the original customer. 'Nothing else is in yet'.

      Next week, the neighbor happily orders more eggs and milk and, when the grocer comes around he happily hands the original customer a single carrot. "We're still working on your order."

      Are you going to tell that original customer not to be upset about the poor service, after a while?
      This is the most absurd comparison I've heard in a long time....

      Because the 'original customer' is getting eggs and milk at half price. While complaining that he can't get other stuff. While the neighbor is sitting there 'man I wish I could afford more eggs and milk... but it's just too expensive'.

      Or the other original customer is getting steak free every week. And complaining that his steak is insufficient.

      And the other original customer, who had ordered a 'chicken breast' pack is getting both the half price eggs and milk AND the free steak with apologies that there's a chicken shortage right now. And whining about it. While their neighbor has to pay full price for all of this.

      You make kickstarters sound like noble hard-done by paragons of righteousness. And some of them are. But there are a bunch, particularly ALL OF THE ONES WHO WHINE ON THE FORUMS, who are just selfish brats who got used to preferential treatment, and want more of it.

      I was grateful to kickstarters for the first year or two I played this game. But you guys don't deserve a lifetime of unabashed gratitude and worship from the entire community. Nor should you expect it. It's been long enough... your 'gratitude period' is passed. At this point I'm far more grateful to all the whales who came AFTER the kickstarter for the money they've put into the game WITHOUT getting crazy ridiculous degrees of excess value. I certainly can't afford to do that, so it's good they're out there.
      Gamer. Streamer. Photographer. Writer. Anime Lover. Possessor of Stuffed Animals.

      Also... I'm terrible at this game.
    • TheBlackCrypt wrote:

      Darklight wrote:

      It's kind of feeling like they are stringing along the PvE diehards because there are not enough of us to cater too, but enough of us that, if we left, the game would die.
      This is exactly what it feels like and I don't understand why there isn't some official statement (to directly address the communities concerns rather than bits and pieces in interviews/blogs/forum posts etc) to reassure those that dig the (promised and backed) PVE side of the game that they *are* still working towards the carrots that were dangled all those years ago.
      Where is the roadmap, seriously?
      You should really re-watch or re-listen to the last two interview Cory did. Along to that, re-read the last few weeks of Friday updates Cory does on the forums. He keeps repeating that they are committed to PVE, mentions what they are working on, and even a very high level priority list they have for releasing content. Off course committed doesn't mean that they are prioritizing its development but it does mean they do intend to get new PVE content out in the future.

      You have multiple written statements and recorded interviews where the head of the company commits to it. Most of it very recent.

      The question is not to know if they are committed or not, the question is rather to know if you trust their words or not. What they are saying, however, is loud and clear through multiple official channels that they are in fact very invested in pursuing PVE for Hex.
      [Blocked Image: http://wardens.hexcompendium.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/cropped-wardens-of-entraht-logo-tranparent.png]
      The Wardens of Entrath is a large, open to public community of Hex enthusiasts with a mission to help and support Hex players and content creators alike!

      Find us on our Discord server or website!
    • Please stop with the complaints about KS tiers - On both ends.

      Neither side has a valid complaint.

      To KS complainers: More than adequate value has been provided for every tier.
      To "No fair, they have KS!' complainers: More than adequate cash has been provided to make HEX a reality, and KS perks are long over. HEX has never pulled any punches on selling exclusivity. Get used to it.
    • NicoSharp wrote:

      To KS complainers: More than adequate value has been provided for every tier.
      Yes, possibly, in the sense that ordering a pizza and being given one of those 10 foot party subs instead is "more than adequate value". It consists of most of the same ingredients as what you ordered, but it's prepared and arranged differently and more importantly is not what you ordered. Raid Leaders and Guild Masters have every reason to be upset.
    • Frederik wrote:

      Sorry but i dont see how asking for PvE features that where promised during kickstarter would be bad for non kickstarters.Guilds, co-op/raids, more content etc is also good for non kickstarters.
      If they bring in those features dungeon crawler and other pledges automatically will get what they want, the content to farm more items.
      So i dont understand the use of this response saying as how kickstarters have already been awarded enough
      Your reply has no relation to what you quoted. The issue was never that someone wanted more PVE, it was that the argument was presented in relation to op getting more value from his kickstarter package. The problems with this have been outlined prior to your post.

      NicoSharp wrote:

      Please stop with the complaints about KS tiers - On both ends.

      Neither side has a valid complaint.

      To KS complainers: More than adequate value has been provided for every tier.
      To "No fair, they have KS!' complainers: More than adequate cash has been provided to make HEX a reality, and KS perks are long over. HEX has never pulled any punches on selling exclusivity. Get used to it.
      I agree completely - There is absolutely zero reason anyone with any level of KS pledge should be demanding more value, and zero reason anyone who missed out should be complaining. The problem is that KS is even being mentioned anymore, especially by anyone demanding more free value from their pledge. Purchasing psychology matters.

      It doesn't matter if the general consensus of the veteren clique is that someone choosing to not spend money because they missed out on KS is a sooky cry baby. It just matters that they aren't spending money.
    • Zurai wrote:

      NicoSharp wrote:

      To KS complainers: More than adequate value has been provided for every tier.
      Yes, possibly, in the sense that ordering a pizza and being given one of those 10 foot party subs instead is "more than adequate value". It consists of most of the same ingredients as what you ordered, but it's prepared and arranged differently and more importantly is not what you ordered. Raid Leaders and Guild Masters have every reason to be upset.

      Having to pay for my main course for dinner, then being given all of these appetizers for free, even though its not what I had my mind on consuming, then getting a few free drinks on top of that, and being the first one to dine there, is not going to wreck my mood when I feel like the main course was a 2 out of 5. The point is, we were more so paying for the experience to dine at the restaurant before anyone else, not so much what we chose to order on the menu.

      Try paying close to $10,000 a year in taxes for your house, just because you live in the Bay Area. On top of your already astronomical Mortgage. Or $11 a day to park your car for work. It's hard to take people seriously that are still complaining about something they bought four years ago not giving them the experience advertised. (Even though admittedly, we all want something more from HEX - It's not in relation to not getting enough for the KS tier we backed at)

      The post was edited 2 times, last by NicoSharp ().

    • EDH in the MtGO client was pretty slow, but it was absolutely worth it. You can't have a complex game like Hex or Magic in multiplayer without taking the time for it. It's not a solvable problem without reduction, and people don't want reduction. Most people are also completely willing to put up with the pace of the game, because it's the standard, the expectation, and inevitable. Just bite the bullet.

      Saying, "We can't make multiplayer because games take too long" is just an excuse. Then again, I also complained about taking out priority holding and unrespondable triggers because I don't want a fast game, I wanted a deep game. If you want to water down the game more to make 'multiplayer' I won't even be interested.
      Old username: Aradon | Collector backer | Starting a guild for Newbies -- "The Cerulean Acadamy" -- Taking applications once guilds are implemented
    • I have this rogue MtG program, coded by a small team for years but still, coded by a small team, that you can play AI with MtG cards and it has a fully functional EDH mode with multiplayer support. Magic's yearly Duels of the Planeswalkers series, made by the always-has-been-horrible Stainless Games, has Two-Headed Dragon support in some of them. I am not sure if it is so hard to make multiplayer works when other games of the genre have achieved so. It's not like players are asking for 40vs40 guild battle right away, 2v2 or 1v1v1v1 are perfectly fine.

      Also, like Obsidian said, reduction should not be a thing. I don't see why we have to phases when the game is designed to have them all. If the match timer is a concern, just increase it to 60 per player or have a sandbox setting that allows players to decide on the total timer.
    • CoachFliperon wrote:

      TheBlackCrypt wrote:

      Darklight wrote:

      It's kind of feeling like they are stringing along the PvE diehards because there are not enough of us to cater too, but enough of us that, if we left, the game would die.
      This is exactly what it feels like and I don't understand why there isn't some official statement (to directly address the communities concerns rather than bits and pieces in interviews/blogs/forum posts etc) to reassure those that dig the (promised and backed) PVE side of the game that they *are* still working towards the carrots that were dangled all those years ago.Where is the roadmap, seriously?
      You should really re-watch or re-listen to the last two interview Cory did. Along to that, re-read the last few weeks of Friday updates Cory does on the forums. He keeps repeating that they are committed to PVE, mentions what they are working on, and even a very high level priority list they have for releasing content. Off course committed doesn't mean that they are prioritizing its development but it does mean they do intend to get new PVE content out in the future.
      You have multiple written statements and recorded interviews where the head of the company commits to it. Most of it very recent.

      The question is not to know if they are committed or not, the question is rather to know if you trust their words or not. What they are saying, however, is loud and clear through multiple official channels that they are in fact very invested in pursuing PVE for Hex.
      I have no doubts that they are committed to PVE is *some* way, shape or form but what exactly is it that they are looking to deliver? Is it really too much to ask for something more than artwork for a single dungeon and yet more words? What have we *seen* since AZ2 was released other than FRA2.0 and the aforementioned artwork? As Darklight has said, it's really starting to feel like a vocal portion of the community is being strung along in the hope that they either start playing PVP or just go play something else.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by TheBlackCrypt ().