2017 Extra Life Charity Stream - Cory's interview recap

    • Ugh I don't know what to write here that isn't super negative. Been with Hex from the start, for years nothing could shake me from it. I haven't really played in a year and this interview is cementing the realization that I'll probably never really get back into it. Very disappointed with HXE, mainly in their horrific communication over the years (the first year though, man it was awesome, we all felt like we were actively shaping the game). This interview basically says to me 'we're never going to really deliver the game we said we were'. PvE is essentially an after sight at this point.

      I won't list all the things I'm disappointed with, but the truth that PvE isn't drawing in players and it's basically being back-burnered as a result ... Well on one hand it's good that they are finally admitting the issues with PvE but honestly, what a massive missed opportunity. This game was pitched and had a ton of momentum because of the multi-player and PvE elements, it's what drew most of us to the game over Magic and other TCGs/CCGs. They had the time and staff to make their ideas happen, they just focused more and more on PvP and switched so many horses in the middle of so many streams it had been maddening.

      I know HXE is a black box so I can't say what internally they should or should not have done, but the results of that black box have essentially underlined the ultimate problem: PvE is not getting a new player base because they totally dropped the ball in that area. It feels more like a boondongle to satiate old KS players like myself than adding anything to the client which these days is basically an amped up (and much better) MTGO experience. Hindsight is 20/20 sure, but it definitely didn't have to break this way, they could have navigated and prioritized these things better from the start.

      The people that say PvE isn't relevant to Hex in the long haul are reactionary - remember the rhetoric, hard work, and discussions from the community of how important PvE/guilds/raids were, and HXE most certainly had the opportunity to focus on those systems over the years (if they didn't, they should have realized the impossibility of that goal over 2 years ago, implying it now to the community shows a comical failure).

      Prove me wrong and make this a great rounded game that says something about what a digital TCG could really be for a variety of people regardless of their skill with TCGs, something that was (but may not still be given HXE's financial positions) completely possible. Until then, I see HXE as an MTGO competitor that will keep it in my peripheral view as opposed to the game/culture that I was more than happy to steep myself in for countless hours a week.

      EDIT: Also burning my biscuit is all the rhetoric over the years that the PvE work was 'building buckets' to streamline the release of adventure zones, that after AZ2 we could start preparing for more continual releases, that they would have done the foundational systems as they had done for the PvP card sets and start rotating them more often. BS guys. Total BS. Maybe you were working on systems that let you easily set up more AZs, but that sure as hell hasn't happened. You shouldn't have said that sort of stuff if you weren't capable of delivering it, it shows at best sideways communication to the community and at worst chaos in your software design principles.

      The post was edited 3 times, last by Castlenock ().

    • Castlenock wrote:

      They had the time and staff to make their ideas happen, they just focused more and more on PvP and switched so many horses in the middle of so many streams it had been maddening.
      I don't think this line is fair. We don't know how much time and staff it would've taken to make what they wanted for PvE a reality, or what it would've cost in terms of the other parts of the game to do so.

      Aside from that though... I can't help but agree with most of what you said.
      Gamer. Streamer. Photographer. Writer. Anime Lover. Possessor of Stuffed Animals.

      Also... I'm terrible at this game.
    • People continue misinterpreting HXE's choice of continuing PvE development by getting in small PvE features that get the most bang for their buck (such as the upcoming player-created content feature) instead of the costly AZ development or even harder Raids development.

      Guys, this in no way means HXE doesn't realize the importance of these content/features for the future and health of their game. They get it. Corey mentions in the interview he was playing Raid mode in other TCGs with his friends decades ago. It's always been his dream and he wants it bad, maybe even more than any hardcore PvE player on these forums.

      But they are an Indie studio developing a AAA game and they face, every day, the harsh truth that everything costs $. They have no choice but to build a sustainable plan that lets them keep the lights on to keep developing the game. That plan has a large share of PvP development because that is what has made them the revenue so far. Have they made mistakes in resource management in the past and could they have made PvE bring in more revenue? Sure! For example, the whole boat section of AZ2 was, imo, a total waste of resources. Having a 3D map of the world but no way at all to interact with other players a missed opportunity? Yes! But they are learning and they are adapting.

      They're introducing more and more cosmetics to monetize after we have asked them to take our money for them. We asked for an FRA update and they have now committed to updating it with every PvP Set release. We told them we want more ways to spend our Gold, and they came up with thematic fun PvE decks in the form of rotating Kismet Reserve packs. We asked for more character slots and they handed them out, even though they were originally planned as part of upcoming features. Some of these took longer than ideal but they're becoming more and more responsive. Player-created content was only recently a hot topic and they've already figured out a plan to implement it. And these are just the recent PvE-related adaptations we've seen from them, the PvP side has a great list as well.

      The devs are listening. But be reasonable in your expectations and suggestions. Remember anything they implement has to make sense from a cost/benefit standpoint. All the recent resources they've spent on PS4 porting and keep spending for tablet/xbox porting will enable them to develop every facet of their game - including PvE - faster and better. If the playerbase grows the way it can being on all these platforms and is retained, we might actually get way more than we expect from 2018...more than even Cory might be able to predict right now.
    • Chrome wrote:

      People continue misinterpreting HXE's choice of continuing PvE development by getting in small PvE features that get the most bang for their buck (such as the upcoming player-created content feature) instead of the costly AZ development or even harder Raids development.
      Then they should give specifics instead of vague promises. If these "small PvE features" are really coming soon and are substantial enough to satisfy people, they should provide in-development screenshots to prove it. Because at this point, an increasing number of people just don't believe them when they say things to the effect of "amazing PvE stuff is coming soon, we promise."
    • Mach wrote:

      Chrome wrote:

      People continue misinterpreting HXE's choice of continuing PvE development by getting in small PvE features that get the most bang for their buck (such as the upcoming player-created content feature) instead of the costly AZ development or even harder Raids development.
      Then they should give specifics instead of vague promises. If these "small PvE features" are really coming soon and are substantial enough to satisfy people, they should provide in-development screenshots to prove it. Because at this point, an increasing number of people just don't believe them when they say things to the effect of "amazing PvE stuff is coming soon, we promise."
      Fair enough.

      But the platform porting push is currently underway. We can't really reasonably expect meaty stuff until this has been completed, probably by sometime in Q1 2018 can we?

      And you know as well as I that HXE has never been good at previewing/hyping in-development features - but this doesn't mean things aren't far along. Things usually just drop out of nowhere when they do. To be honest, I'd like to see some improvements on this end as well.
    • Chrome wrote:

      People continue misinterpreting HXE's choice of continuing PvE development by getting in small PvE features that get the most bang for their buck (such as the upcoming player-created content feature) instead of the costly AZ development or even harder Raids development.

      Guys, this in no way means HXE doesn't realize the importance of these content/features for the future and health of their game. They get it. Corey mentions in the interview he was playing Raid mode in other TCGs with his friends decades ago. It's always been his dream and he wants it bad, maybe even more than any hardcore PvE player on these forums.

      But they are an Indie studio developing a AAA game and they face, every day, the harsh truth that everything costs $. They have no choice but to build a sustainable plan that lets them keep the lights on to keep developing the game. That plan has a large share of PvP development because that is what has made them the revenue so far. Have they made mistakes in resource management in the past and could they have made PvE bring in more revenue? Sure! For example, the whole boat section of AZ2 was, imo, a total waste of resources. Having a 3D map of the world but no way at all to interact with other players a missed opportunity? Yes! But they are learning and they are adapting.

      They're introducing more and more cosmetics to monetize after we have asked them to take our money for them. We asked for an FRA update and they have now committed to updating it with every PvP Set release. We told them we want more ways to spend our Gold, and they came up with thematic fun PvE decks in the form of rotating Kismet Reserve packs. We asked for more character slots and they handed them out, even though they were originally planned as part of upcoming features. Some of these took longer than ideal but they're becoming more and more responsive. Player-created content was only recently a hot topic and they've already figured out a plan to implement it. And these are just the recent PvE-related adaptations we've seen from them, the PvP side has a great list as well.

      The devs are listening. But be reasonable in your expectations and suggestions. Remember anything they implement has to make sense from a cost/benefit standpoint. All the recent resources they've spent on PS4 porting and keep spending for tablet/xbox porting will enable them to develop every facet of their game - including PvE - faster and better. If the playerbase grows the way it can being on all these platforms and is retained, we might actually get way more than we expect from 2018...more than even Cory might be able to predict right now.
      I do hope hex prospers, for me its by far the best TCG out there, better than any CCG.
      But lets be honest, being an indie has been an excuus forever, just look at games like "path of exile" and "7 days to die" they are also indies.
      Hex could have easily been up there if they focussed a little more on the co-op/raid model and the guilds which they didnt.
      And as far as the PS4 port goes i do hope they get alot of people there that love the game but as the stats are at this moment i'm afraid the development to keep that up and running is gonna be bigger than what it generates (Hex clash stats).
      As for the UI being an issue for multiplayer i dont believe that, there are easy workaround to keep your screen just as big as it is now and that you can slide which boss you see or which ally on your side (the ally's should auto slide back when your cursor is on the enemy's side).
      Lets be honest if they said Hex FRA is gonna feature co-op in march they would probably get alot more people starting AND preparing (aslong as they got proof) than what PS4 gave them atm.
      Offcourse it would set back the sets for a short time but i believe it would increase the player base alot.
      Guilds is a mid/long feature as stated here but how mid/long is that? 6 months or 6 years?
      I love hex and i am gonna keep playing it BUT as the only proof they have given is that PvE has been on the backside for now and not worth the effort i dont feel comfortable anymore to give them the cash for it.
      Why would i invest in hex in the hope for more PvE if they dont deliver?

      I'm sorry if this sounds negative and i dont mean it in a bad way but currently i'm just looking at a game i love but is neglecting the things i like about it and all they give are (lets be honest) excuses.
      Dont get me wrong i believe that what they say is true and that they really believe all that but in the end arent they just making excuses, was there really no other way?
    • Chrome wrote:

      They're introducing more and more cosmetics to monetize after we have asked them to take our money for them. We asked for an FRA update and they have now committed to updating it with every PvP Set release. We told them we want more ways to spend our Gold, and they came up with thematic fun PvE decks in the form of rotating Kismet Reserve packs. We asked for more character slots and they handed them out, even though they were originally planned as part of upcoming features. Some of these took longer than ideal but they're becoming more and more responsive. Player-created content was only recently a hot topic and they've already figured out a plan to implement it. And these are just the recent PvE-related adaptations we've seen from them, the PvP side has a great list as well.
      I agree they're making steps.

      I think they've made some great decisions. Kismet Draft was brilliant. Evo is unquestionably the smartest limited game mode I've ever seen in a card game.


      But they gave us interesting PvE characters to build and play. Then they said 'these characters don't get to play in the sandbox'. This is a decision I dislike greatly, and they show no signs of giving those characters their own sandbox or letting them play in the sandbox. They keep making the sandbox larger, but still tell me 'these characters are not allowed' here. They give us more of these characters. But still don't give them a sandbox to play in.
      Gamer. Streamer. Photographer. Writer. Anime Lover. Possessor of Stuffed Animals.

      Also... I'm terrible at this game.
    • Made the mistake of reading this thread. Although I have a lot to say about it... I'm not going to. Ultimately it boils down to this:

      The players that say they want the pve features the most also seem to be the players that clamor the hardest to find a quote that they can point to of "LOOK!!! See they said it, Hex is abandoning pve." If someone digs that deep, takes enough things completely out of context and twists enough words then they are going to find whatever they are looking for. Personally I don't get it, being negative about every single announcement just seems like a poor way of going about things...
    • Chrome wrote:

      Fair enough.

      But the platform porting push is currently underway. We can't really reasonably expect meaty stuff until this has been completed, probably by sometime in Q1 2018 can we?

      And you know as well as I that HXE has never been good at previewing/hyping in-development features - but this doesn't mean things aren't far along. Things usually just drop out of nowhere when they do. To be honest, I'd like to see some improvements on this end as well.
      Sure, but they can't have it both ways.

      They can't both (1) expect us to believe that they haven't abandoned PvE because of their amazing future plans and (2) refuse to share anything other than vague details about these plans.

      Unfortunately, they have a rather bad history of overpromising PvE. Remember AZ1? It was previewed at Gencon with all 6 classes and 30 levels of content. And then less than a month before release we learn that AZ1 was just 3 classes and 10 levels. And we still don't have what at the beginning of 2016 we thought was going to be in AZ1.
    • Mach wrote:



      They can't both (1) expect us to believe that they haven't abandoned PvE because of their amazing future plans and (2) refuse to share anything other than vague details about these plans.
      I'm not sure who that 'us' is other than a few people in threads like these but it certainly doesn't include me. Based on what they have already achieved I have no reason to believe that they won't be doing what they say they will be doing. I also don't need laid out plans, eta's, screenshots, etc.
      "Ignorant beliefs are stains upon the mind."
    • Transience wrote:

      Mach wrote:

      They can't both (1) expect us to believe that they haven't abandoned PvE because of their amazing future plans and (2) refuse to share anything other than vague details about these plans.
      I'm not sure who that 'us' is other than a few people in threads like these but it certainly doesn't include me. Based on what they have already achieved I have no reason to believe that they won't be doing what they say they will be doing. I also don't need laid out plans, eta's, screenshots, etc.
      Yep, PVP players have absolutely no reason to doubt anything. They've lived up to every PVP related goal and more. The PVP in this game is thriving.
      (before anyone comments this is not sarcastic at all)
      Gamer. Streamer. Photographer. Writer. Anime Lover. Possessor of Stuffed Animals.

      Also... I'm terrible at this game.
    • PS4's NA release being considered successful is pretty encouraging, and I think that the notion that a Tablet release (one which you can use your PC account for on as well, to boot) by end of 2017 / early 2018 is pretty huge news. Both of those elements suggest a good healthy through-line for HXE to continue operations with the lights on and the game continuing to keep on trucking.

      Steady, dependable PVP set releases is very necessary to keeping that going, and things like the Kismet Draft, talk of being able to start having AAAs and other 'new visual effects' showing up in packs, etc. in the near future is all pretty good, positive news. These are things that should at the very least keep people motivated--because for me, at least, my worry for a fair bit of 2017 was that HXE was struggling to keep things financially viable for Hex.

      I'm much more reassured that the game isn't on the doorstep of being shuttered with what has been shown off these past couple of months in particular. As said, the PVE stuff will come by and large, my main point was just to emphasize and stress that people calibrate their expectations realistically. I think we'll probably see a continuance of steady new development--it just may not be what different subsets of folks are clamoring for the most with each pass.
    • Chrome wrote:

      People continue misinterpreting HXE's choice of continuing PvE development by getting in small PvE features that get the most bang for their buck (such as the upcoming player-created content feature) instead of the costly AZ development or even harder Raids development.

      ...


      The devs are listening. But be reasonable in your expectations and suggestions. Remember anything they implement has to make sense from a cost/benefit standpoint. All the recent resources they've spent on PS4 porting and keep spending for tablet/xbox porting will enable them to develop every facet of their game - including PvE - faster and better. If the playerbase grows the way it can being on all these platforms and is retained, we might actually get way more than we expect from 2018...more than even Cory might be able to predict right now.
      I totally understand where you are coming from Chrome, and I really, really want to agree with you, but I can't. It's been 4 years. I was at the forefront like you and others here hitting the forums and engaging in HXE in every way possible on the PvE stuff. I did my fair share of white knighting. I hate to post negative stuff to what is obviously a group of hard-ass working people at HXE who love their game and their fans.

      But it's been 4 years. For myself, I can't buy their rhetoric anymore - I mean we've heard everything the past 4 years, and most would agree here that the communication from HXE and engagement has been problematic at best. I do not know anything about their development hell but after 4 years I think a lot of us can start judging the game and come up with some solid conclusions from the net result. PvE is half baked, HXE wanted to do more with it from the start. It's been 4 years of development. I think it's okay for some of us to say they believe PvE wasn't prioritized correctly at this point.

      Having got into other KS games with small shops (Grim Dawn, looking at you, my love) it shows that while very difficult towing the line between transparency and wishful thinking, it can pay off. Grim Dawn/Crate still having a healthy, trusting relationship with their community, something that has grown them into a successful shop for their expansions and next game(s). I still wince when I think of the times HXE would tout their community engagement while a 100 page+ comment thread was going on about Spectral Acorns and why the hell HXE wasn't saying bumpkiss about it for the most part (NOT to do with the MTG/HXE settlement either). That sort of debacle is common in Hex's history and could have been easily avoided by engaging people in a variety of fashions that wouldn't jeopardize their stance or development on the issues.

      As painful as it is to write, I just don't trust HXE anymore - that's not to say they are being deceitful, most times they misjudge, but at some point along the line (a long time ago) if you keep on misjudging things like this, it'll drive you away due to gross negligence and/or you'll be left with a product that is not as advertised.

      As for the work on the PS4, it's a carbon copy of the Steam launch fiasco that came out of nowhere. If it is considered a success as they say in the interview than I'd say it is the same as Steam, players will move out as it's a subpar experience when you're playing PC clients. I'm not saying Hex should never have been ported to Steam or PS4, but most here would agree that the steam launch was a debacle by a wide margin. I know I'm being super harsh, but the PS4 version has the same, if not worse, feel to it. Too early to tell though, so I'm hopefully wrong here.

      Anyways, here is the point of all of my rambling:


      I remain hopeful that the tablet clients will help Hex hit the widest audience, but I have to wonder, how successful are they going to need to be to evolve the PC/PS4/Tablet/XBone clients and successfully slingshot past all of that PvP work to put the mountains of development time into their PvE vision? Especially after admitting that their PvE experience isn't bringing people in on the playerbase?

      Not going to happen! Why? Because pretend if they aquire 1 million players in the PvP space, rocketing Hex into a super successful TCG, why would they ever stop that success curve to cater to the PvE base that has been unsatisfied from the start and a self admitted PITA to build?

      Please HXE prove me wrong, but I would feel like a schmuck at this point if I think PvE is going to be anymore than the half-baked product than it is now. More than happy to eat that crow though, so please, serve it up.
    • Eraia wrote:

      Transience wrote:

      Mach wrote:

      They can't both (1) expect us to believe that they haven't abandoned PvE because of their amazing future plans and (2) refuse to share anything other than vague details about these plans.
      I'm not sure who that 'us' is other than a few people in threads like these but it certainly doesn't include me. Based on what they have already achieved I have no reason to believe that they won't be doing what they say they will be doing. I also don't need laid out plans, eta's, screenshots, etc.
      Yep, PVP players have absolutely no reason to doubt anything. They've lived up to every PVP related goal and more. The PVP in this game is thriving.(before anyone comments this is not sarcastic at all)
      I play PvP and PvE and think both are great. I don't recognize myself at all in the negativity from some players regarding PvE. Frankly, some posts in this thread are embarrassing. I hope Cory doesn't read them.
      "Ignorant beliefs are stains upon the mind."
    • Vroengard wrote:

      Transience wrote:

      Based on what they have already achieved
      0% Guilds0% Strongholds
      0% Keeps
      66% Classes
      50% Levels
      0% Raids
      0% Co-Op
      ?? % AZ's
      0% Crafting

      It just oozes confidence.

      3-4 years is a lot of time.
      The fact that there are 2 free to play big campaign chapters and an arena gives me a lot of confidence that they intent to do everything. Unlike you though I'm a patient person and understand that what Cory is telling us is actually a realistic view of the situation in which they operate.

      You can continue to make negative post after negative post about how you're not getting what you feel you're entitled to within the time-span that you want it but that is not going to change reality. They have set their priorities and they make a lot of sense.

      Just accept it.
      "Ignorant beliefs are stains upon the mind."