Do or Don't? - Informing PS4 players

    • Vroengard wrote:

      Steric wrote:

      people sell common chests around 9p
      And people buy them (or, rather, when you buy a chest you don't exactly buy just the chest, you buy whatever's inside + the opportunity to roll at WoF) for 9 platinum + 1,200 Gold (the cost of a single spin) = ~14.5p (or 3,180 gold). Because the most common reason to buy a chest is to either spin it (the other is to sell it for a higher price).
      (As for UC chests, you actually buy the insides + WOF roll for a higher price, as it's 4.5plat (haven't checked myself but assume you're right that UC is C/2) + 3,100 Gold = ~ 18.5 (or ~4,100 gold))
      I'm not sure what you're getting at here. The 1200 gold is something that the player is spending to Kismet to spin the chest. The person that opened up the pack to get the chest isn't getting that 1200 gold. This doesn't make the chests more valuable. That 3,180 gold that you calculated is the value of a free-spin common chest and you aren't getting those from opening packs; you're getting paid-spin chests.
    • Vroengard wrote:

      And people buy them (or, rather, when you buy a chest you don't exactly buy just the chest, you buy whatever's inside + the opportunity to roll at WoF) for 9 platinum + 1,200 Gold (the cost of a single spin) = ~14.5p (or 3,180 gold). Because the most common reason to buy a chest is to either spin it (the other is to sell it for a higher price).

      (As for UC chests, you actually buy the insides + WOF roll for a higher price, as it's 4.5plat (haven't checked myself but assume you're right that UC is C/2) + 3,100 Gold = ~ 18.5 (or ~4,100 gold))
      What ? Flawed logic here.
    • I didn't think it'd prove a hard concept to grasp, but you can forget about it as it doesn't impact the thread's main purpose. I was just trying to make a case that if you were to translate the lack of chests into Gold it'd should probably be more than the 9p that they're posted for because it's the only original (ie not buying it from someone else) way to get WoF rewards.
    • Vroengard wrote:

      They are supposed to use Gold to buy singles / packs / stardust off the Auction House...

      ... if we actually start posting anything above Uncommon for Gold that is. I know that there are almost 0 good Legendary cards in the AH for Gold and about as many constructed-playable Rare cards.

      And since they can't trade with us their Gold for Platinum, I suppose they are forced to either empty their wallets or buy stuff from the AH for gold and post them back for platinum. Though unless the above is rectified (nothing worthwhile is posted for Gold in the first place), I expect the lives of those that don't buy big amounts of platinum to be at least Purgatory-levels of awful.
      I don't think there is any doubt that the PS4 version is essentially pay-to-play. I think it is impossible that the Dueling Pit will have higher gold gain than dungeon per hour, since you cannot abuse precont deck for super-fast-farming -- there might be a fastest deck, but it's not going to be Xocoy-fast. Also, if it has higher gold gain, then PvE players on the PC would complaint, so I highly doubt that's the way to go. I think it's fair to say many players choose to not farm in PvE, and I see a lesser amount of players to be willing to farm Dueling Pit. So yes, they are required to empty their wallets to play.

      Furthermore, the money rare/legendary will take double digits of hours to farm per piece so I doubt listing those cards for gold is going to help that much. There are more chance of PC players picking those cards up than PS4 players even if you do that.

      This is a further problem because of how competitively tough the ladder can be -- which I have explained so many times that I am going to skip the wall of text. But, if a lot of PS4 players eventually try to go PvP, and they don't quit after getting brutalized(especially the early birds) for a bit, then maybe there would be enough players around the Gold-Bronze zone to actually create a "true Gold-Bronze zone", instead of the current situation of "too many Silver/Gold are just Cosmic players who haven't start their climb with their T1 deck yet this season". True Gold-Bronze zone is good for the game as it gives new players a friendlier PvP environment.

      So, good and bad, but your prediction of Purgatory-levels of awful is very likely for F2P players and there is not much of way around it.
    • Vroengard wrote:

      I didn't think it'd prove a hard concept to grasp, but you can forget about it as it doesn't impact the thread's main purpose. I was just trying to make a case that if you were to translate the lack of chests into Gold it'd should probably be more than the 9p that they're posted for because it's the only original (ie not buying it from someone else) way to get WoF rewards.
      yes but the ps4 player dont lose 3 180 - 2000 gold not having chest in pack.
      He will lose : WoF reward price - 1200
      so most of the time compared to a pc player who spin its chest... he will get more... not less
    • Goliathus wrote:

      So, good and bad, but your prediction of Purgatory-levels of awful is very likely for F2P players and there is not much of way around it.
      that change nothing. Pve gold farming is already Purgatory-levels of awful (as it should be) in the PC client.
      Really, the part of players who spend time to farm dull IA with autopilot boring decks is certainly very small. I am ready to bet on less than 10% of the players.
      So...
    • Gregangel wrote:

      that change nothing. Pve gold farming is already Purgatory-levels of awful (as it should be) in the PC client.
      You're missing the point here, I believe.

      If you consider that Gold farming is already purgatory-level of awful in the PC version (with which I respectfully disagree, bit I respect your rights to your opinion) then the PS4 version will be Hell-level. The point is that PS4 Gold farming will be worse because (1) it will wield less Gold/hour, (2) it will have much less usages and (3) the little usages it will have will need tens of thousands / hundreds of thousands of Gold (buying a playset of Runebind / Dark Heart of Nulzann / Bride of the Damned)
    • Vroengard wrote:

      The point is that PS4 Gold farming will be worse because (1) it will wield less Gold/hour, (2) it will have much less usages and (3) the little usages it will have will need tens of thousands / hundreds of thousands of Gold (buying a playset of Runebind / Dark Heart of Nulzann / Bride of the Damned)
      (1) You absolutly don't know what will be the farming rate in the Pit. I personnaly think they will set it, for a 50% win rate player, at the same level than dungeon gold farming, so around $1 an hour. So I think, the best players in the Pit will earn even more than a dungeon crawler on PC.
      (2) ... and that mean all the gold dedicated to buy on the AH.
      (3) ... as many as a PC player need

      Meaning, if my hypothesis (1) is correct : PS4 player will be able to get packs/cards faster. It will still be boring as Hell or as Purgatory whaterver, but it will be faster and players will be in a much easier economic system to grasp.

      Overall ,it will make the game much more casual to play
    • Gregangel wrote:

      (1) You absolutly don't know what will be the farming rate in the Pit. I personnaly think they will set it, for a 50% win rate player, at the same level than dungeon gold farming, so around $1 an hour. So I think, the best players in the Pit will earn even more than a dungeon crawler on PC.
      (2) ... and that mean all the gold dedicated to buy on the AH.
      (3) ... as many as a PC player need
      (1) We'll see in two days time. Again, like I said on my first post, they ahve told us very little. I don't think it will be 1$ per hour of Dueling Pits because i. It will probably be Best of 3 (Campaign is Best of 1), ii. It won't be with turn3 kills (Campaign has turn3-4 kills). HOWEVER, we did forget to account for the chest-o'gold that PS4 players will get with every pack they open (supposed to be 2,000 Gold). That's also why we need an early PS4 client stream (Hacky will deliver)

      (2) No objections there, that's exactly what I meant

      (3) Wrong, because the listing gold price for playable Rares / Legendaries in the AH has skewed rate of gold:plat. Meaning that a PC player can turn his gold into platinum and then buy Prince Zakkaz for 340 plat (* 215 = 73,100 Gold) instead of 99,900 Gold


    • They sure can, by buying packs for Gold and reselling them for platinum. It's a tedious procedure and with their QuickBuy/Sell version of AH-lite it might be harder (since they won't have a complete view of the AH from inside the client, which makes them prone to be undercut).

      Again, this is HARDER for them than the PC player, and that's what this thread is (partialy) about.
    • Gregangel wrote:

      Goliathus wrote:

      So, good and bad, but your prediction of Purgatory-levels of awful is very likely for F2P players and there is not much of way around it.
      that change nothing. Pve gold farming is already Purgatory-levels of awful (as it should be) in the PC client.Really, the part of players who spend time to farm dull IA with autopilot boring decks is certainly very small. I am ready to bet on less than 10% of the players.
      So...
      You did say a lot of players are farming Duels AI in another thread and now suddenly you are betting on less than 10% here...anyway, 5 hours for a draft isn't that bad, 1 hour a day for 100 days to get you a deck within 12,600P isn't that bad either. But I can see why they are seen as Purgatory level to you, but it is still the most generous F2P farming in a game. Not in many games can you get $1USD+ dollar of value per hour of grinding. I know many successful F2Pers so even if it is Purgatory level of awful, at least they can succeed.

      Gregangel wrote:

      (1) You absolutly don't know what will be the farming rate in the Pit. I personnaly think they will set it, for a 50% win rate player, at the same level than dungeon gold farming, so around $1 an hour. So I think, the best players in the Pit will earn even more than a dungeon crawler on PC.(2) ... and that mean all the gold dedicated to buy on the AH.
      (3) ... as many as a PC player need

      Meaning, if my hypothesis (1) is correct : PS4 player will be able to get packs/cards faster. It will still be boring as Hell or as Purgatory whaterver, but it will be faster and players will be in a much easier economic system to grasp.

      Overall ,it will make the game much more casual to play
      1. We don't know the farming rate in the Pit, but if a 50% win rate player can get the same level than dungeon gold farming, then the system has a freaking issue. You are comparing "absolute peak" dungeon farming to "average" pit farming. That means "average" dungeon players are earning crap for reward and I am sure that does not sit well with the PvE enthusiasts. People have already complaint about PvE rewarding crap unless you power-farm, which some PvE enthusiast don't enjoy, so when you give out even more freaking money for doing an average job in the pit, I don't expect the PvE enthuasiasts to be happy about it. Rework campaign/PvE reward will be over the place if this happens, but I don't see this happens so whatever. I think I have played more F2P games than you(prediction based on how you dislike them) so I know these modes aren't that generous. The dungeons aren't supposed to be this generous either, people just find ways to break the process, no way Hex Ent design graveyard and says "Okay, I think the best time people can farm this is in 10 minutes, so we set the hourly rate like this...".

      3. If this happens, I will be honest: I will be playing the gold market for sure, and I am sure many people would. People already sell cards for G at a much higher ratio than market P:G rate. What's stopping them to take advantage of these PS4 players if there is a market to do so?

      Gregangel wrote:

      Vroengard wrote:

      (3) Wrong, because the listing gold price for playable Rares / Legendaries in the AH has skewed rate of gold:plat. Meaning that a PC player can turn his gold into platinum and then buy Prince Zakkaz for 340 plat (* 215 = 73,100 Gold) instead of 99,900 Gold
      A PS4 player can also turn gold into plat.
      If you read into public chat, you will see players asking about how to turn gold into plat almost every single day. I frequent the chat for a fair amount of time when I play the game, this is like one of the top 5 questions asked in the chat. And we PC players have the chat to ask and not everyone has figured out how to do this G:P thing. PS4 players, without the chat(or they do have chat? Someone please confirm), will be less likely to get the grasp of G:P exchange and procedure.
    • Goliathus wrote:

      You did say a lot of players are farming Duels AI in another thread and now suddenly you are betting on less than 10% here...anyway
      no I never said that. I said when it come to farm, most of the player prefer to do so against IA (same on Eternal btw)
      That tells nothing about how many players are ready to farm.

      But what I can say is players on casual CCG like Duels or Eternal will be more dispose to grind than on a TCG like Hex where all the others players will get the cards in a blink of an eye.


      The rest later... to be continued
    • Winds wrote:

      Can a PS4 player exchange gold for platinum? Ps4 does not have Mail, at least not initially. This was mentioned by Cory when he was mentioned they were working on a process to allow a pc player to send cards to their ps4 account.

      Did he update to change this?
      If you are talking about the few posts before you, the idea is to get things with gold then sell for plat.
    • Goliathus wrote:

      Winds wrote:

      Can a PS4 player exchange gold for platinum? Ps4 does not have Mail, at least not initially. This was mentioned by Cory when he was mentioned they were working on a process to allow a pc player to send cards to their ps4 account.

      Did he update to change this?
      If you are talking about the few posts before you, the idea is to get things with gold then sell for plat.
      actually, Vroengard wrote that a pc player can turn his gold into platinum and then buy from the AH. Gregangel clearly state that Ps4 player can do the same, which is why I am asking if Cory has updated to say there is mail.
    • Winds wrote:

      actually, Vroengard wrote that a pc player can turn his gold into platinum and then buy from the AH. Gregangel clearly state that Ps4 player can do the same, which is why I am asking if Cory has updated to say there is mail.
      Greg just said "PS4 players can do the same" but did not mention that (1) they can't use chat and (2) they don't have mail and therefore the only way to do it is to buy stuff from AH for Gold (probably packs because it's the only valuable things that are being sold for Gold at a reasonable gold:platinum rate) then repost them for platinum and wait. And do it with their Quick Buy/Sell system, as they don't have access to browse the AH either.

      So yes, it is possible for them to do it, but it's not an easy process and many times harder than when a PC user does it.
    • So to comment a bit on the side conversation of how a PS4 player will use gold that has popped up.

      The PS4 players actually can't buy/sell packs on the AH (at launch). I got curious when we found out that all AH based activity is done through the quick buy/list feature found in the new deck UI how players were supposed to buy or sell booster packs. I asked on a dev stream about it and apparently it just isn't a thing they can do at launch, eventually they want to extend the quick buy/list to work in the kismets well so they can do it with packs but at launch it won't be an option (I asked this when we had the original date so it's possible with the extra time since then this may have changed but as of right now that is the most recent information I know).

      So PS4 players can only use gold for those common packs and PvP cards on the AH (If they happen to be listed).
      The now only repeatable way to get gold without buying packs (maybe winning them as well that wasn't particularly clear) or winning on the ladder will be the Dueling Pits which is PvP based so the gold rate will probably be very low at least compared to even a casual/new player run through of campaign. (Either because it takes too long to finish games because players tend to be slower than an AI or because they will have put some kind of system in place to stop people getting/giving fast gold by auto conceding)

      With that in mind I don't think Hex Card Clash is a game that's even intended to be doable to play F2P. I think gold is more being used as a bonus thing for just playing the game over time. I'm not a developer of anything so I don't know if the choices are necessarily right, they certainly worry me but all I can do is see how it plays out but I don't have high hopes for it at least based off my habits when playing other video games (As in it doesn't sound like something I would play if I was trying hex for the first time).