Stone me if you want, but - PvE???

    • AceBladewing wrote:

      Pandaemonium wrote:

      Kickstarter people who wanted to "invest" with things like multiple pro tiers probably helped sway the game to focus on card value retention which I dont think helped the game either.
      Nah, that's bullshit, sorry. People wanting card value retention is completely reasonable. The way the devs handled providing it is the problem.

      I think you are both correct? As the value of digital cards can never be guaranteed beyond the popularity of the game itself and also that if the developers had really wanted to guarantee the value or cards then the first step; is ensuring the popularity of said game and by extension the cards in it ...which might paradoxically come at the cost of said cards value by appealing to a larger market, maybe.

      Lot of maybes and should haves. Frankly at this point, I just want a proper postmortem so we can at least learn something from this whole fiasco
    • AceBladewing wrote:

      Pandaemonium wrote:

      Kickstarter people who wanted to "invest" with things like multiple pro tiers probably helped sway the game to focus on card value retention which I dont think helped the game either.
      Nah, that's bullshit, sorry. People wanting card value retention is completely reasonable. The way the devs handled providing it is the problem.
      What could they have done differently to handle card value retention? IMO the game was too expensive and it provided a barrier for new people to come in.

      Cards retained pretty decent value even after rotation. Card value retention was probably one of the best things about hex. At least ah value retention, real money value I guess is different.
    • Pandaemonium wrote:

      What came first the horrible business model or the inability to make good pve content that constantly changes is more difficult to determine.
      Way back ago, before AZ1 or PvE classes came out, they announced that they were making it so PvE classes would only have a few levels, and only level up in dungeons, but only for the duration of that dungeon. They reverted the decision when there was a massive backer outcry, combined with a number of people pointing out that it betrayed explicit Kickstarter promises.

      That is, they literally tried to reduce the entire RPG aspect of the game to a minor mechanic of dungeons. The horrible business model was part of the problem from the very beginning. I wish I had realized that when they said "MMORPG" they meant "social aspects" and not "gameplay". When all the talk of guilds was about how it would help you test your PvP decks, that you could put a deck in a special slot that other members could "borrow" to use against other guild members, etc...

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Ainulindale ().

    • Ainulindale wrote:

      Pandaemonium wrote:

      What came first the horrible business model or the inability to make good pve content that constantly changes is more difficult to determine.
      Way back ago, before AZ1 or PvE classes came out, they announced that they were making it so PvE classes would only have a few levels, and only level up in dungeons, but only for the duration of that dungeon. They reverted the decision when there was a massive backer outcry, combined with a number of people pointing out that it betrayed explicit Kickstarter promises.
      That is, they literally tried to reduce the entire RPG aspect of the game to a minor mechanic of dungeons. The horrible business model was part of the problem from the very beginning. I wish I had realized that when they said "MMORPG" they meant "social aspects" and not "gameplay". When all the talk of guilds was about how it would help you test your PvP decks, that you could put a deck in a special slot that other members could "borrow" to use against other guild members, etc...
      I am glad you brought those things up, it been awhile since I thought about the old dungeon mechanics or loaning cards.

      If I had to make a bet if the game was a fair non gotcha style (spinning chests) mmo tcg like they envisioned it wouldnt be like five people talking on a forum.
    • Pandaemonium wrote:

      Ainulindale wrote:

      Pandaemonium wrote:

      What came first the horrible business model or the inability to make good pve content that constantly changes is more difficult to determine.
      Way back ago, before AZ1 or PvE classes came out, they announced that they were making it so PvE classes would only have a few levels, and only level up in dungeons, but only for the duration of that dungeon. They reverted the decision when there was a massive backer outcry, combined with a number of people pointing out that it betrayed explicit Kickstarter promises.That is, they literally tried to reduce the entire RPG aspect of the game to a minor mechanic of dungeons. The horrible business model was part of the problem from the very beginning. I wish I had realized that when they said "MMORPG" they meant "social aspects" and not "gameplay". When all the talk of guilds was about how it would help you test your PvP decks, that you could put a deck in a special slot that other members could "borrow" to use against other guild members, etc...
      I am glad you brought those things up, it been awhile since I thought about the old dungeon mechanics or loaning cards.
      If I had to make a bet if the game was a fair non gotcha style (spinning chests) mmo tcg like they envisioned it wouldnt be like five people talking on a forum.
      I'm sticking around to be the last player to post on the forum, I'll take that as my win.
    • In my opinion, what HEX did well with the AZs and the like is give the player the tools to do wild and outlandish builds that would still function. Since HEX, the only vaguely similar card game I've played is Eternal, and while that has some of the things that HEX had, the sad reality is that it just doesn't live up to it.

      In HEX, I could make a deck revolving around weird or stupid combos and make it work. In Eternal, basically the only thing that works is cards with almost no interaction, because everything is PvP or the stakes are much higher.

      It's also why I didn't like FRA. As difficulty goes up, player freedom and creativity goes down. And the AZs and dungeons kind of played to the opposite of that: By giving players overpowered characters and mercenaries, it allowed a lot of leeway for relaxed and casual freeplay.

      Sadly, this was not respected by the devs and no time was invested in improving or expanding this properly beyond releasing the occasional merc. Siege could've been great for player-generated infinite content but was never put to use because it was turned into a sinkhole that upped the stakes and made everyone just beeline for the builds with the highest chance of success, leaving no room for anything else to be played.

      Another thing I'd suggested would be randomisable dungeon templates, where players can pick up randomised boons for their decks, like starting with an extra resource, or giving all troops +1 defense, things like that, that could've made for endlessly replayable content.