Stone me if you want, but - PvE???

    • I would love nothing more than a sudden rush of imminent information about a surprise content release, but folks, it's pretty darn unlikely that you're going to see anything remotely more than another arms-length acknowledgement of the discourse in this thread. Sixty seven pages in, this conversation has repeatedly keep spinning along with pretty much the same overall arc and trajectory--it is the Ground Hog Day of threads.

      Not trying to take wind out of sails or whatnot, but at a certain point it's time to just move on, whatever form that needs to take for you individually. If you haven't gotten a mustered response in almost six months, I can assure you there's no hidden carnival prize meter ticking up at the HXE office that they're waiting on filling up before they 'cave' and give one.

      Expect Q1 of 2018 to be the PS4 EU release & Set 9. Expect Q2 of 2018 to be Tablet / mobile release, and possible an XBox release in the mix. Late Q2 / Early Q3, Set 10 and probably another pass at FRA midway through the year. Q4 is likely when we'll get a handle on how healthy / sustainable Hex is after all of the aforementioned development efforts--if that's a positive report, then we'll likely see PVE pronouncements with some gusto--but if it's a negative one then it's not going to matter much anyways because there won't be a Hex--PVP or PVE--by 2020 tops.

      There's only so much 'bandwidth' in the development pipeline--capital, raw coding time, etc.--that HXE had to bail on Gencon to save $50k and turn to volunteer translation work to save on cash ought to be a very tangible shot across the bow that HXE is actively working to secure a future by tackling these platform ports.

      I'm not saying this to denigrate HXE or anyone on the forums, simply that it's a reality we've got to face. Watch the turnout numbers for BASH & CLASH each week and see the highest ranking that shows up. Watch the AH data. Recognize when HXE makes the decision to pivot to Kismet Draft specifically citing a measurable dramatic drop-off of firing drafts.

      I love Hex. Most of the folks here, still passionate on these forums and in this thread, love Hex too. Being realistic is crucial. It is not tenable for HXE to pivot into the increasingly desperate / sometimes pie-in-the-sky suggestions on how PVE can somehow change the landscape of HXE's fiscal and war chest situation. Hell, people have been constantly providing suggestions for AH adjustments for going on five years now--track how often any ground has been covered there, and that is definitely an area of Hex that I doubt anyone could deny has a direct impact on plat conversion finances for HXE.

      I don't doubt that this thread's just going to keep on carrying on as it already has for sixty seven pages, but I'm making this post in the hopes that at least some of you might take a moment to step back and take a breather--we've long since passed the point where people are running themselves emotionally raw getting desperate and frustrated and hopeful and mournful and angry here. I have every faith that HXE wants to deliver on these things--but I also have every confidence that HXE needs the current focus to work if that's ever going to happen.

    • @Funktion

      Your last post is exactly what I (and many others) have been asking for over the months this thread has gone on. I would maybe take it a step further, and flesh out the not just the bullet points of each priority, but the VISION of what each contributes to the game. I talk about this specifically for PVE because the PVP vision is in pretty clear focus already.

      The main issue for me is that I don't know what to expect going forward. I know they have said they are committed to PVE, but I don't know what PVE is anymore. Is it just new AZs? Do they consider the keeps/strongholds subsections of the AZs? Are they a standalone system? Is there any mode they envision allowing player made content (I.E. keeps/strongholds)? Do they have PVE plans set in stone and are we wasting our time providing suggestions?

      We don't want dates. We don't want specifics. We want a substantive post talking about what they see the PVE side of the game becoming. We want some ideas of how the keeps/strongholds work (even if it changes during development!) so that we have an idea of what to expect and be excited for. It's HexEnt's job to keep us invested and it feels like we are in a weird twilight zone were it's our own job instead.

    • Blackwood wrote:

      I would love nothing more than a sudden rush of imminent information about a surprise content release, but folks, it's pretty darn unlikely that you're going to see anything remotely more than another arms-length acknowledgement of the discourse in this thread. Sixty seven pages in, this conversation has repeatedly keep spinning along with pretty much the same overall arc and trajectory--it is the Ground Hog Day of threads.

      Not trying to take wind out of sails or whatnot, but at a certain point it's time to just move on, whatever form that needs to take for you individually. If you haven't gotten a mustered response in almost six months, I can assure you there's no hidden carnival prize meter ticking up at the HXE office that they're waiting on filling up before they 'cave' and give one.

      Expect Q1 of 2018 to be the PS4 EU release & Set 9. Expect Q2 of 2018 to be Tablet / mobile release, and possible an XBox release in the mix. Late Q2 / Early Q3, Set 10 and probably another pass at FRA midway through the year. Q4 is likely when we'll get a handle on how healthy / sustainable Hex is after all of the aforementioned development efforts--if that's a positive report, then we'll likely see PVE pronouncements with some gusto--but if it's a negative one then it's not going to matter much anyways because there won't be a Hex--PVP or PVE--by 2020 tops.

      There's only so much 'bandwidth' in the development pipeline--capital, raw coding time, etc.--that HXE had to bail on Gencon to save $50k and turn to volunteer translation work to save on cash ought to be a very tangible shot across the bow that HXE is actively working to secure a future by tackling these platform ports.

      I'm not saying this to denigrate HXE or anyone on the forums, simply that it's a reality we've got to face. Watch the turnout numbers for BASH & CLASH each week and see the highest ranking that shows up. Watch the AH data. Recognize when HXE makes the decision to pivot to Kismet Draft specifically citing a measurable dramatic drop-off of firing drafts.

      I love Hex. Most of the folks here, still passionate on these forums and in this thread, love Hex too. Being realistic is crucial. It is not tenable for HXE to pivot into the increasingly desperate / sometimes pie-in-the-sky suggestions on how PVE can somehow change the landscape of HXE's fiscal and war chest situation. Hell, people have been constantly providing suggestions for AH adjustments for going on five years now--track how often any ground has been covered there, and that is definitely an area of Hex that I doubt anyone could deny has a direct impact on plat conversion finances for HXE.

      I don't doubt that this thread's just going to keep on carrying on as it already has for sixty seven pages, but I'm making this post in the hopes that at least some of you might take a moment to step back and take a breather--we've long since passed the point where people are running themselves emotionally raw getting desperate and frustrated and hopeful and mournful and angry here. I have every faith that HXE wants to deliver on these things--but I also have every confidence that HXE needs the current focus to work if that's ever going to happen.
      Everything you said is likely true. But it doesn't change what I wanted Hex to be years ago and can at least hold out hope that there is still a future for Hex to be the #1 rpg/tcg. For years I have said pvp is not enough and I think that is still true.

      Edit: I want more pve because I think that is what gets hex out of the mess they are in. Focusing entirely on pvp is only more of the same and highly unlikely to create something different then what they have now.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Pandaemonium ().

    • Yup @Autzen

      I know your main focus is PVE and that's what you wanna see. Or at least it seems like it from that post, but it shouldn't be limited to pve related stuff. In fact pve could be a low priority, I don't think it is but it could be. There are a lot of aspects to the game though and there are a lot of things that could really benefit the game, it is more about what do they have the time and resources to realistically address and implement. This could include some of these things and many more:

      -Achievements
      -Adventure zones
      -Auction House
      -Cosmetics
      -Cosmic Coins
      -Deckbuilder
      -New play formats
      -Organized Play
      -Platforms (including tablet)

      There are probably countless other things that they've discussed internally and we've never even thought of.

      At this point I'm probably derailing the thread since it is supposed to be about pve, and this is more of a communication thing. Just trying to be specific in what I'd like to see.

    • Funktion wrote:

      At this point I'm probably derailing the thread since it is supposed to be about pve, and this is more of a communication thing. Just trying to be specific in what I'd like to see.
      You're not. We've been discussing the communication alongside the pve for the past like 30 pages. The two problems go hand in hand... they really do.
      Gamer. Streamer. Photographer. Writer. Anime Lover. Possessor of Stuffed Animals.

      Also... I'm terrible at this game.

    • Nope, I completely agree with you, and I don't see this as derailing (others might I suppose).

      To clarify, these days I'm about 70% PVE and 30% PVP, in the past I would say the ratios were reversed. I do have interest in and play both. The issue for me is that I planned my investment into the game knowing that ratio would probably swing like it has, and I bought into PVP not just because I enjoy it (I do!), but also because I figured the money spent there would provide value when I did swing more to PVE. I simply don't have the time to enjoy the large all day tournaments, and when the on-demand constructed was removed in favor of the ladder, my pvp enthusiasm died. I had hoped that PVE would be more substantial, but I don't see the point spending on it when there is not even a glimmer of news for it.

      In short, there IS content being added to the game. It's just not content that is hitting the sweet spot for me, or many others. If I was strictly PVP or strictly PVE that might make sense, but I consider myself both. And if your content delivery for somebody playing both sides isn't resonating in at least one area that is concerning. At least tell me what's coming up so I can stay invested!

    • I am fine with paying for cosmetics, even (and perhaps especially) on the PVE side. In fact, I think there should be a lot more customization (call it the Path of Exile model). There is absolutely no reason PVE can't support itself completely via optional cosmetic transactions for those who want them. They already started to do this a little bit when they introduced the battleboards. Frankly, they aren't doing enough of this. If there are only 6-10 boards to choose from, then you don't really have an actual chance to differentiate yourself very much. There need to be more of these, and soon. Quit dragging your feet on this please, Hex Ent. It's been months, AND the battleboards from Clash and Bash haven't rotated in forever either.

      That said, I am adamantly opposed to the idea of paying DLC style money to unlock new adventure zones. That goes against the entire spirit of what Hex set out to be. Also, personally, I think it's stupid to spend all your time developing static content at this point. That model of online game design is about 20 years out of date at this point (though developers keep doing it, for some reason). Dynamic content is the way to go. They should be building content that generates itself going forward. The FRA is about 5% of what this ought to be, but its dynamic aspects are so minuscule as to be laughable. They need repeatable, dynamic challenge content that rewards you the farther you go (an infinite mode, with lots of varied enemies, not just 25 or so). "Story" / Adventure Zone content is totally fine being a once every 1-2 years thing IF the other content that's available is dynamic enough to hold you over in between. The problem is, we DON'T have any real dynamic PVE content, and no sign that they've even really considered it or put any significant work into it. Keeps are theoretically a type of this, though player driven instead of system driven. This is also fine, IF it ever gets released. The way things have been going the last year, I have no confidence whatsoever that this will ever come out.

      Hex was supposed to be the next big things in card games. It has yet to deliver on that promise. These days, despite all my love for the team and the incomplete pieces of the game they've managed to give us so far, what I'm most surprised about is that they haven't gone bankrupt. I don't really believe they're capable of getting it done anymore, and Hex is doomed to toil along in obscurity until new and old players dwindle enough so that they can no longer support themselves. It's extremely disheartening, and nothing would make me happier than to be wrong on this one, but that's how I feel right now. I hope, but I don't believe.
      --ossuary

      "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none."
      - Shakespeare, All's Well That Ends Well

    • Blackwood wrote:

      ...

      I love Hex. Most of the folks here, still passionate on these forums and in this thread, love Hex too. Being realistic is crucial.


      ...
      Blackwood, I agree with almost everything you say in this post but a good albeit tragic byproduct of this thread is that this as probably one of the last where we have an active Hex community talking about the game. At least one of the last big threads for the PvE fans out there.

      So please, by all means everyone, continue the discussion, great to see all the personalities back saying why they were or are passionate about the game. I'm not being glib when I say that this community is fucking SMART and have made some of the most compelling forum threads I have ever witnessed or been privileged to water down with my stupid bullshit. I really wish the community had continued to grow instead of shrink, but so is life.

      It's great to see some people I haven't seen in years. I hope you are all doing well and I really do miss everyone, even the ones I wanted to virtually choke. May your life have more ups than downs for you and yours; I mean that sincerely.

      On my behalf, I am unfortunately done with all things HXE. If they released keeps/AZ3/guilds/raids next week that were super polished I'd still find it next to impossible to trust them in general, or give them my cash, which I used to throw at them in ridiculous abundance. For a few years after the kickstarter, I had the most fun with this game and logged so many happy hours into it. But HXE dropped the ball - bad decisions, loss of faith in their community, and a lack of communication that is practically unparalleled. They had an amazingly loyal, rabid community that were willing to go to extremes to make this game a success and HXE turned their back spectacularly on them - I truly believe they could have retained most of those wonderful people, even with the game in the state that it is, if they hadn't actively disengaged us.

      I'll continue to lurk for a while and if anyone is in the NorthEast of the U.S. from the original gang/forums, send me a PM, maybe we can meet up for a beer or three.

      Peace!

    • sindharin wrote:

      All mmo's have already shown that players burn through content faster than development can occur. Maybe some answers can be taken from there as well.

      E.g. Daily quests and end game content like raids.
      1) SOME players will 'burn through the content' faster than development can occur.
      2) it's not about whether there's a gap between completion of content and newer content but how big that gap is.

    • Funktion wrote:

      A) The everything is free model (the current model)With this model the premise is that pve players will spend enough money on boosters or plat to buy cards to recoup the money spent. There are a number of long term issues with this:
      That might be HXE's premise but it's a premise that badly fails to understand the systems at work. A PVE player who spends $0 can still contribute to HXE's bottom line by in-game activity. If they occasionally venture into PVE then even more so.

    • Timlagor wrote:

      Funktion wrote:

      A) The everything is free model (the current model)With this model the premise is that pve players will spend enough money on boosters or plat to buy cards to recoup the money spent. There are a number of long term issues with this:
      That might be HXE's premise but it's a premise that badly fails to understand the systems at work. A PVE player who spends $0 can still contribute to HXE's bottom line by in-game activity. If they occasionally venture into PVE then even more so.
      Sure but the odds of what you said being true to an extent that it matters are much less smaller than the odds of your statement being false. Really though... your whole statement is actually C that PVE is a loss leader and that you don't directly profit off of it.

    • Ossuary wrote:



      That said, I am adamantly opposed to the idea of paying DLC style money to unlock new adventure zones. That goes against the entire spirit of what Hex set out to be. .
      Lol, it doesnt go against the "Spirit" of hex at all, it only goes against the original plan they had in the kickstarter. We should all know by now that their original plans where no where near realistic. If charging for adventure zones would bring enough money to insure that they are released consistently then I am more than happy to pay for them.

      I am as sad as anyone that their original vision did not work out but it was inevitable that reality would change at least some of them. Charging for adventure zones would not make Hex any less of a great game, it would simply help to sustain it.

    • Sukebe wrote:

      Charging for adventure zones would not make Hex any less of a great game, it would simply help to sustain it.
      The more I think about it, the less I feel charging for AZs is a good idea. I'm not opposed to it, to be clear... I've bought plenty of expansions in games before... but I just feel like, unless they charged way more than is feasible, it probably wouldn't bring in enough money in a game like this to justify charging... as opposed to them finding more sustainable, repeatable things to sell to fund the productions of content.
      Gamer. Streamer. Photographer. Writer. Anime Lover. Possessor of Stuffed Animals.

      Also... I'm terrible at this game.

    • Eraia wrote:

      Sukebe wrote:

      Charging for adventure zones would not make Hex any less of a great game, it would simply help to sustain it.
      The more I think about it, the less I feel charging for AZs is a good idea. I'm not opposed to it, to be clear... I've bought plenty of expansions in games before... but I just feel like, unless they charged way more than is feasible, it probably wouldn't bring in enough money in a game like this to justify charging... as opposed to them finding more sustainable, repeatable things to sell to fund the productions of content.
      I meant to say this earlier while I was waiting in line at city hall... but my phone died :(

      Not sure if this thread or the one you started about VIP is better, it has some relevance to each but...
      The implementation I would use for charging for future content would be something along the lines of (numbers are placeholder):

      -The next adventure zone / class unlock costs $10-15 in PLAT from the in game store.
      -HOWEVER! If you have spent $20-30 in CASH on the game since the last piece of paid content you are auto-granted the new piece of content. In case this isn't clear this would be something like you taking out your wallet and spending $30 and getting the standard amount of plat and then also getting that piece of content as well on top of it.

      Incentives people to regularly spend real money on the game and have a value add for doing so. This is a good route for players that care about max value etc and Hex is getting a bit of cash. On the other hand for pve players who have no interest in spending their own money on the game (despite how much they enjoy it / use it) they still have an avenue towards unlocking the content. That avenue requires them to interact with other players in some way.

      If we're talking about paying to unlock content. I would do something like that at the very least for major releases. It is a bit of a softer approach.

    • Funktion wrote:

      The next adventure zone / class unlock costs $10-15 in PLAT from the in game store.
      Basic content (classes, levels) being behind a paywall is a big no-no and a mighty great way to piss of people and lose players.

      Like I've said elsewhere, what should be monetized is EXTRAS such as cosmetics or buffs or "non-essential" content.

      I wonder if people are paying attention to the video game news and communities in general while they suggest the equivalent of DLCs and season passes for Hex. Pro tip: Gamers hate those and they destroy games right at launch by getting the reviewers to speak against it and rally everyone to do the same.

    • Vroengard wrote:

      Funktion wrote:

      The next adventure zone / class unlock costs $10-15 in PLAT from the in game store.
      Basic content (classes, levels) being behind a paywall is a big no-no and a mighty great way to piss of people and lose players.
      Like I've said elsewhere, what should be monetized is EXTRAS such as cosmetics or buffs or "non-essential" content.

      I wonder if people are paying attention to the video game news and communities in general while they suggest the equivalent of DLCs and season passes for Hex. Pro tip: Gamers hate those and they destroy games right at launch by getting the reviewers to speak against it and rally everyone to do the same.
      Alot of games (and also alot of CCG's) sell PvE parts for money and there PvE is about 1/10th as good as hex its PvE. Keep the first 2 AZ's free and charge a small ammount for AZ3+.
      Those who dont want to pay for it can grind gold to get that plat (220-1) means a 1500 plat adventure zone would cost them 330k gold which aint that bad.
      But the extra income they get might assist them a little to create even more. Even if it doesnt cover all the costs it will atleast help to make hex a better place.

    • If only HEX had 10 times more paying players new AZ, Raid and othe great stuff would be released every 6 month....

      It took Yugioh Links (a mobil game) 10 day to get from 35M to 40M accounts.. I am guessing they have areound 100M acount atm.
      It dont matter 99% are f2p play if they still have maybe 100.000+ p2w. Everything can be grinded if you willing to spend enogth time.
      1-2 new quests and hand fuii of new cards as rewards per week. it is really a full time job it you want to collect all the new card as quests only last 1 or 2 weeks.
      I still like HEX better. F2p income model can work it just take a tons of players...

      Around 5000 unik users use AH in HEX per month to buy or sell somethinhg. This is a known fact.
      It is my theory that most active players that still buy platinum in HEX hEX use AH atlest once a month.
      So if all 5000 AH user buy platinum from time with is optimistic HEX have around 5000 paying users...

    • Vroengard wrote:

      Funktion wrote:

      The next adventure zone / class unlock costs $10-15 in PLAT from the in game store.
      Basic content (classes, levels) being behind a paywall is a big no-no and a mighty great way to piss of people and lose players.
      Like I've said elsewhere, what should be monetized is EXTRAS such as cosmetics or buffs or "non-essential" content.

      I wonder if people are paying attention to the video game news and communities in general while they suggest the equivalent of DLCs and season passes for Hex. Pro tip: Gamers hate those and they destroy games right at launch by getting the reviewers to speak against it and rally everyone to do the same.
      I can't speak for Funktion, but I am only talking about content after we reach the promised 30 levels and 6 classes. If that is done with az3 then I would be for charging for az4+

      For raids, I would imagine they would be spread across all raid zones past and future.

      I had not thought about charging for classes but I would be ok with that after the 6 promised classes are in game, as long as the price is $5-$10 per added class. Same would go for races, though I would expect to pay no more than $5 unless they change the impact of race choice.