Stone me if you want, but - PvE???

    • They could copy Warframe's system.

      Randomised dungeons that can only be accessed via certain keys. Keys are given randomly for a variety of activities. Rare cards can only be acquired by chance off of rare keys. Keys can only be traded for Platinum.

      Platinum will continue circulating without actually forcing people to pay for PvE.
    • Opalia wrote:

      All fancy thing we all want in HEX likely cost 5,10, 20 or mayby 50 mill $. Cost if IT projekts are insaint high...
      With an anual income in HEX of 1-2 mill $ (my estimate) I am cetain it is hard just to pay for new sets and small things like FRA updates.
      It is hard for me to is see where or when Cory will get money for then fancy new stuff....

      They are done the best they could with the resources they had sadly it just was not enogth build the game as fancy as we all had hoped.

      It is like having a McJob (a poor paid job with no prospects) and just $1000 of saving and you dreaming about a getting a new Ferrari.
      Even if you work hard everyday and save as much as posible it will take you 50+ years to get the car.

      Just AZ3 likely cost a 1 mill $. Suggesting 10000 players pay 20$ each is only 200,000$ who are going to pay the rest?
      Booster selling cant hardly cover cost of making new sets...

      HEX alwasy had one big problem imo too few players...

      Imo HEX just need 10 times more players or somehow get players to spend 10 times more money than today to make HEX the game of Corys dream.
      Cory has newer found the solution this problem but he hopes PS4 and tablet might be part of the answer....

      Son: I want a new Ferrari..
      Dad: I have no money and hardly any income...
      Son: But I want you to give me a new Ferrari...
      Son: Bad daddy. Why dont you give a new Ferrari ??? Dont you love me any more ??? You said you do anything for me!!!
      I don't want to come across as hostile here, I value a good debate, but I have some issues with this post.

      "All fancy thing we all want in HEX likely cost 5,10, 20 or mayby 50 mill $."

      These numbers are made up.

      "With an anual income in HEX of 1-2 mill $ (my estimate)"

      You mentioned it yourself, but this number is made up.

      "I am cetain it is hard just to pay for new sets and small things like FRA updates.
      It is hard for me to is see where or when Cory will get money for then fancy new stuff....

      They are done the best they could with the resources they had sadly it just was not enogth build the game as fancy as we all had hoped."

      This is almost certainly accurate, and if you read back a couple posts you'll notice I said exactly the same thing. The issue isn't that they wildly underestimated how much money they would need (it seems), the issue is that they are continuing to say that they have more than enough money to do the things from the Kickstarter but they just...aren't.

      "Just AZ3 likely cost a 1 mill $."

      This number is made up.

      "Suggesting 10000 players pay 20$ each is only 200,000$ who are going to pay the rest?"

      Both the 10000 figure, and the $20 figure, are made up.

      "Booster selling cant hardly cover cost of making new sets..."

      This is speculation, founded on your other speculations.

      "Son: I want a new Ferrari..
      Dad: I have no money and hardly any income...
      Son: But I want you to give me a new Ferrari...
      Son: Bad daddy. Why dont you give a new Ferrari ??? Dont you love me any more ??? You said you do anything for me!!!"

      I realize you're playing off my new car analogy earlier, but this isn't accurate to the present situation. A more accurate example would be:

      Dad: I'm going to give you a new Ferrari.
      Son: Oh, okay cool. Sure, I'd like that.
      Dad: Okay, sure thing. I have plenty of money.
      Son: Sweet!
      ...
      Son: Any word on that Ferrari?
      Dad: Absolutely! Definitely still getting you that Ferrari! I have plenty of money for it!
      Son: Well then...Bad daddy. Why dont you give a new Ferrari ??? Dont you love me any more ??? You said you do anything for me!!!

      In short, then, I disagree with your premise, because firstly every argument you have here is firmly based on pure speculation, and secondly it attempts to attack an argument I wasn't making anyway. Again, the issue isn't that they underestimated costs and (probably) ran out of money. The issue is that they need to just go ahead and say so, and do something about it, whether it's monetizing PvE (which I dislike), monetizing PvE cosmetics (which I do like), doing another Kickstarter (Mantic does a Kickstarter for their games every several months, so does Onyx Path) or what...SOMETHING.
    • I find that it is nice to play all the formats in the game. Instead of getting frustrated that either pvp sets or pve content is not coming out fast enough I direct my efforts to what is new. So I played sealed draft and eco when a new set is out. Play pve with new content release and constructed at other points.
    • Foxhold wrote:


      The issue is that they need to just go ahead and say so, and do something about it, whether it's monetizing PvE (which I dislike), monetizing PvE cosmetics (which I do like), doing another Kickstarter (Mantic does a Kickstarter for their games every several months, so does Onyx Path) or what...SOMETHING.
      Personally if they would redo the kickstarter (with the same tiers) i would mind getting a dungeon crawler tier.
      Maybe since hex PvP is settled they can do a purely PvE kickstarter where ALL money is purely used for PvE updates (they will have to be faster with co-op than though)
    • sindharin wrote:

      I find that it is nice to play all the formats in the game. Instead of getting frustrated that either pvp sets or pve content is not coming out fast enough I direct my efforts to what is new. So I played sealed draft and eco when a new set is out. Play pve with new content release and constructed at other points.
      This is an utterly unhelpful comment for PvE players. You like to play all formats. PvE players want PvE because they don't enjoy all formats (yes, there are exceptions, I am not trying to talk on behalf of all the players who participate in PvE). I find it completely baffling that some people still don't understand this. Constructed = PvP. PvE-minded players will never enjoy that. They want to play against the AI with other people, not against them. It's almost like telling someone to go play checkers when they enjoy chess. Completely different experience, and the other will never satisfy the other.
    • @Foxhold @Opalia
      I can't resist a good analogy. Here's my car analogy relating to HEX development.
      Cory: I want to build a car that goes 10,000 miles on a single charge, and runs on a single pellet of fuel when not running on electricity. It will be able to seat 50 and climb mountainsides, with free maintenance forever!
      Fans: TAKE OUR MONEY!
      Later...
      PVP players: Wow, this is a comfortable car. The interior is lovely, it runs smoothly and lets me adjust the internal temperature to anything I want, and I can even race it with other people on a track. I'd love to have a few more tracks (game modes), a bit more customization with the radio (gems/sleeves/boards), and I'd rather the races not be so short, but I like the way this goes.
      PVE players: This is amazing, unlike anything else that's come before or since. The colors are adjustable at will, I can steer it easily, and I have a lot of fun going around and around the neighborhood. ...can I have more than one seat (co-op or multiplayer) so I don't have to choose just between racing other people and driving around the neighborhood? Or can I let other people drive my car (likely keeps/dungeon building/assault)? Please?

      Note the underlying positivity of both, and the enjoyment of the game, while asking for additional features. One is technically easy to implement and is actively generating money. One requires significant additional investment of time and resources. Both love the game, for different reasons. Both are willing to at least dabble in the other's playing field, but the appeal is different.

      My personal stance? I've said it. I want Hex (HEX Entertainment) to take cues from Warframe (Digital Extremes) and Chaos Reborn (Gollop Games) in terms of FTP PVE and monetization with skins and cooperative PVE (and with Chaos Reborn, the idea of assaulting each other's keeps with rewards and feedback, without costing the assaulted one anything, allowing the AI to play out slotted-in decks). Bonus points for Warframe being a tiered buy-in to closed beta initially and Chaos Reborn for being a Kickstarter game.

      Above all, I want this game to succeed. Give me opportunities to roleplay. Give me opportunities to set up theme decks and slap them in to a dungeon for other people to challenge. Let me fill the nodes, write the challenge text, and select the art people see when they go through the nodes. Unleash your community, Hex, not just The Kraken.
    • Ertzi wrote:

      sindharin wrote:

      I find that it is nice to play all the formats in the game. Instead of getting frustrated that either pvp sets or pve content is not coming out fast enough I direct my efforts to what is new. So I played sealed draft and eco when a new set is out. Play pve with new content release and constructed at other points.
      This is an utterly unhelpful comment for PvE players. You like to play all formats. PvE players want PvE because they don't enjoy all formats (yes, there are exceptions, I am not trying to talk on behalf of all the players who participate in PvE). I find it completely baffling that some people still don't understand this. Constructed = PvP. PvE-minded players will never enjoy that. They want to play against the AI with other people, not against them. It's almost like telling someone to go play checkers when they enjoy chess. Completely different experience, and the other will never satisfy the other.
      This pretty well hit the nail on the head. Dedicated PvE players don't want to play PvP. We're aware it exists, we're aware that people enjoy it. We don't. Personality speaking, this is because at the end of the day, the actual point of PvP games is for every player to try to make the game as little fun as possible, for as many people as possible, whereas PvE seeks to do the exact opposite.

      Furthermore, because of the inherent competitive nature of PvP, unpleasant and nasty players will gravitate toward it, rather than PvE, or at least PvP will make people become this way. It has to. Obviously this isn't true of everyone, or even anywhere near the majority, but the simple fact is that you will find far, far, far more rude, obnoxious, and downright unpleasant people in PvP than you will in PvE. It's not even really comparable, the differential is so great.

      So no, I'm not going to play PvP. It's stressful, unpleasant, and precisely zero fun for me, and others like me. You do you, I'm glad you enjoy it, but we simply don't.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Foxhold ().

    • @Zyblen

      I overall agree. My arguments thus far have been centered in the past, but that's because that's where I see far too many people still dwelling. I don't think we can adequately discuss the future if the people talking about it are still in the past, if you will.

      I do somewhat disagree with the PvE analogy, largely because the argument is that, while the neighborhood is overall lovely (although there are a lot of potholes), we've driven around it countless times and every other road is closed. When we bought the car we were told there were other neighborhoods we'd be able to drive in, and in fact while the car's speedometer goes up to 100 it had been hard-capped at 40 MPH, with the promise that it'll definitely be allowed to go that fast later.

      Again, I've said it before but I'm not trying to be negative. I love Hex, but I simply have no reason to keep playing it right now. All I want is a decent excuse to throw money at it, really, and on the topic of monetization, yeah, I agree. Cosmetics are always cool and a good revenue stream, and I would still be all-in for a strictly PvE Kickstarter.
    • Foxhold wrote:

      "Son: I want a new Ferrari..
      Dad: I have no money and hardly any income...
      Son: But I want you to give me a new Ferrari...
      Son: Bad daddy. Why dont you give a new Ferrari ??? Dont you love me any more ??? You said you do anything for me!!!"

      I realize you're playing off my new car analogy earlier, but this isn't accurate to the present situation. A more accurate example would be:

      Dad: I'm going to give you a new Ferrari.
      Son: Oh, okay cool. Sure, I'd like that.
      Dad: Okay, sure thing. I have plenty of money.
      Son: Sweet!
      ...
      Son: Any word on that Ferrari?
      Dad: Absolutely! Definitely still getting you that Ferrari! I have plenty of money for it!
      Son: Well then...Bad daddy. Why dont you give a new Ferrari ??? Dont you love me any more ??? You said you do anything for me!!!
      More like:

      Dad: Hey son, I know you want a Ferrari, but I promise you that I can build you a better Ferrari, I just need you to spot me some cash.

      Son: Sure thing dad. (Dad does have experience putting together bicycles, how much harder can a car be?)

      Dad: Sorry son, turns out my friend that was helping out made off with a bunch of parts and what he did put together is made of macaroni. I'll need some more time.

      Son: No worries dad. I trust you.

      Dad: Soooo... I may have 'borrowed' some tools for your car from that warlock who lives by the shore. He left them out where anyone could use them, but he's getting kind of pissy about it. Nothing to worry about though, all fixed now.

      Son: Okay. That warlock was always a bit of a miser. This car will be way better than anything he could create.

      Dad: Oh, most definitely. In fact, come and see the frame. It's all sleek and smooth and there's slots where you can swap out accessories. And here's the place I'll put the onboard computer!

      Son: That's pretty cool. I can't wait to show my friends when it's finished.

      Dad: So, I don't have the engine finished yet, but if you sit in the car, I can push you around the yard for a bit. You can even steer with the wheel!

      Son: Okay. That sounds like it could be fun.

      *Dad makes vroom noises as he pushes Son around the Acleacean Sea*

      Dad: Hey look! I put in an air conditioner! Feel how could that is.

      Son: That's pretty cold. But, didn't that used to be a heater as well?

      Dad: Yeah, but it was too customizable, this way you don't have to worry yourself about adjusting the temperature. It's always Frosty!

      Son: okay... I guess. But dad, what about the engine? When will I be able to drive it?

      Dad:....

      Son: Dad?

      Dad:....

      Son: Dad? Hello?

      Dad:...

      Son: DAD!!

      Dad: Son, you know I hate it. When you shout, it's rude and I can't concentrate.

      Son: But dad, you were standing there for over a year, just stating at the 'Ferrari'.

      Dad: I wasn't JUST staring. I rotated the tires AND repainted it.

      Son: But, what about the engine?

      Dad:.....
    • sindharin wrote:

      i don't see what is unhelpful about my comments. i try to enjoy all the games content. Everyone can do what they feel like doing
      The point is that, since you enjoy pvp, you don't feel the lack of content.

      Many people do not find playing any form of 'against players' content fun. People in that situation are, essentially, getting no content at all... for vast swaths of time... and if they don't happen to enjoy the extremely limiting play offered by the arena... you have even less.

      I remember pvp players getting crazy up in arms over pvp sets taking too long. Why is it so hard to believe pve players would feel the same about pve?
      Gamer. Streamer. Photographer. Writer. Anime Lover. Possessor of Stuffed Animals.

      Also... I'm terrible at this game.
    • Foxhold wrote:

      Furthermore, because of the inherent competitive nature of PvP, unpleasant and nasty players will gravitate toward it, rather than PvE, or at least PvP will make people become this way. It has to. Obviously this isn't true of everyone, or even anywhere near the majority, but the simple fact is that you will find far, far, far more rude, obnoxious, and downright unpleasant people in PvP than you will in PvE. It's not even really comparable, the differential is so great.
      Well, I think we should give credit where credit's due, and even with the in-game chat (which many other online CGs don't have because specifically of toxicity) that Hex offers, I've only met 1 toxic player that spammed me constantly during a match. Instead, most matches where the opponent and I were both chatting were pleasant. I got some tips after losing, or a congrats after winning. Granted, I did only play around 30 constructed matches in total ever, but did run about 20 evo's from herofall to frostheart as well and a kismet draft, so enough to make an estimation I guess.

      So I think the toxicity IN-GAME is very low in Hex compared to other games (the forum is a different story sadly...).

      Given the 'fact' that most players are so nice with each other in-game, imagine an actual functioning guildchat in-game. That would be amazing! I would probably come online just to chat to my guildies.
    • Bawb wrote:

      Well, I think we should give credit where credit's due, and even with the in-game chat (which many other online CGs don't have because specifically of toxicity) that Hex offers, I've only met 1 toxic player that spammed me constantly during a match. Instead, most matches where the opponent and I were both chatting were pleasant. I got some tips after losing, or a congrats after winning. Granted, I did only play around 30 constructed matches in total ever, but did run about 20 evo's from herofall to frostheart as well and a kismet draft, so enough to make an estimation I guess.
      So I think the toxicity IN-GAME is very low in Hex compared to other games (the forum is a different story sadly...).

      Given the 'fact' that most players are so nice with each other in-game, imagine an actual functioning guildchat in-game. That would be amazing! I would probably come online just to chat to my guildies.
      Well, as I said in the post you quoted, what I was saying doesn't apply to anywhere near the majority of players. My point wasn't that most PvP players are unpleasant, it was that you are leagues more likely to encounter an obnoxious PvP player than you are a PvE one, simply because PvE does not incentivize its players to attempt to screw each other over. PvP does by its very nature.

      Again, the vast majority of PvP players will be perfectly reasonable people, but it only takes one to ruin the entire experience for everyone around them, as it were.

      In all fairness this plagues physical card games far more so than digital ones, simply because players have to talk and interact with each other to a vastly greater degree than they do in a digital one which magnifies every aspect of their personality, but it's still a risk PvE players see no reason to approach in the first place.

      Then when you add on that PvP tournaments generally require one of a small number of extremely specific approved decks and overtly discourage experimentation or personalization, it just doesn't appeal to people. "I like this card, it's not that great but I like the picture and I think it's nifty" is a completely valid reason to include something in a PvE deck. It doesn't fly at all in PvP.
    • Bawb wrote:

      Foxhold wrote:

      Furthermore, because of the inherent competitive nature of PvP, unpleasant and nasty players will gravitate toward it, rather than PvE, or at least PvP will make people become this way. It has to. Obviously this isn't true of everyone, or even anywhere near the majority, but the simple fact is that you will find far, far, far more rude, obnoxious, and downright unpleasant people in PvP than you will in PvE. It's not even really comparable, the differential is so great.
      Well, I think we should give credit where credit's due, and even with the in-game chat (which many other online CGs don't have because specifically of toxicity) that Hex offers, I've only met 1 toxic player that spammed me constantly during a match. Instead, most matches where the opponent and I were both chatting were pleasant. I got some tips after losing, or a congrats after winning. Granted, I did only play around 30 constructed matches in total ever, but did run about 20 evo's from herofall to frostheart as well and a kismet draft, so enough to make an estimation I guess.
      So I think the toxicity IN-GAME is very low in Hex compared to other games (the forum is a different story sadly...).

      Given the 'fact' that most players are so nice with each other in-game, imagine an actual functioning guildchat in-game. That would be amazing! I would probably come online just to chat to my guildies.
      You must be playing in a different ladder than I was when I tried it, more than half of games there was some sort of poison from the opponent whether it be toxic chat or players intentionally dragging the game on once they had no chance of winning, it well and truly put me off playing any form of PVP.

      I have a solid weekly gaming budget but no reason to spend it here, in fact I can't even find the motivation to spend time playing the game because I've driven around that one neighborhood that's on offer too many times to count and it's gone from fun to enjoyable to grinding gold to I just can't stomach it anymore.
    • Cory is a fantastic board game designer who tried to make a computer game without having tried it before.

      I think Cory promised too much because he didnt know how much development cost and time would be.

      HEX is not like it was promised but given the resources Cory had I think HEX is still fantastic.

      I thiink Cory alwasy have and always will try to make HEX as great as he posible can.

      Maybe the car that Cory is building for us will newer be able to fly like he promised but still it a nice car imo.

      So why be so upset?

      I just wish HEX had 10 times more paying players so Cory had the resources so he could make HEX like it was supposted to be.
    • Venma wrote:

      From reading some of the comments I think there's a mistake many people are making when looking at Hex monetization compared to MtG: The majority of money made by MtG is not from competitive play. The majority of MtG players, by a good margin, are casual players who never, or almost never go to events. That is the market PvE is feeding. If Hex wants to monetize like MtG, those casual players will make up the majority of the income.

      Hm, are you sure about that? Because it goes against everything my husband and I have learned in our decades playing MTG, which is this:

      The majority (or all) of money made by WotC is from people and stores buying packs and booster boxes. Period. They make NO money from "Tournaments", directly. But to say that WotC makes no money from competitive play is patently false. Keep in mind that casual players watch SCG's major tournaments online, and then build those decks and play them at FNM. So it's still in WotC's interest to allow the big tournaments to take place. WotC doesn't make money off them directly, but they do lead to sales.

      You're correct that most players are casual and never attend large events, like tournaments hosted by SCG. However, MANY casual players DO play Friday Night Magic. The vast majority of stores running FNM are running Standard only. So people have to keep buying new cards as the old ones rotate out. The ONLY reason they need to do this is because they're playing Standard. My husband and I haven't played Standard in a couple of years now, we mostly just play EDH (and he plays some Modern). So when we need cards, we go directly to TCG, or buy individual cards directly from a store. We never buy packs. WotC is making zero money from us, but they're making plenty of money from the casual players attending FNM. THAT is the business model. So competitive play is close to 100% of WotC's profit generator for MTG. (The only other way MTG makes money is from collectors, but that's a very small portion. And those collectors are still buying packs, so it's still the same revenue stream.)


      So again, competitive play, and the rotation of standard cards is what makes WotC money from Magic. It's their whole ballgame: Sell The New Cards.