Stone me if you want, but - PvE???

    • @Mokog said just about everything I wanted to say (and better than I would have said it), but I would like to add two quick things...

      1) I still feel like calling his last forum post an open declaration of hostility to the players is the same as saying he's doing "everything but Hex" because he tweeted a picture of a trophy he made. There is a ton of extra context being applied that it probably isn't appropriate to apply.

      2) I Kickstarted this thing and - like so many of you - I used to jimp at every update, post, video, and Zophiegif. I understand why so many of you feel like Hex is not dealing with you in good faith, but I don't agree that the solution is to burn one person at the stake. Seek solutions, not revenge.
    • Can we just take a moment to appreciate that this thread is coming up on its anniversary and yet there remains exactly as much info now as there was when it started.

      That is almost inspirational how negligent it is.

      Hidden wrote:

      @Mokog said just about everything I wanted to say (and better than I would have said it), but I would like to add two quick things...

      1) I still feel like calling his last forum post an open declaration of hostility to the players is the same as saying he's doing "everything but Hex" because he tweeted a picture of a trophy he made. There is a ton of extra context being applied that it probably isn't appropriate to apply.

      2) I Kickstarted this thing and - like so many of you - I used to jimp at every update, post, video, and Zophiegif. I understand why so many of you feel like Hex is not dealing with you in good faith, but I don't agree that the solution is to burn one person at the stake. Seek solutions, not revenge.
      1) I don't know, I see that he's working on some stuff; I also see he isn't working on Hex. Thus, "working on everything but Hex" doesn't exactly miss the mark, to many of us. I joined quite a bit after the release of Adventure Zone 2, and I've been on these forums for over two years now. Ask me what Adventure Zone we're still on.

      2) The solution and burning the guy at the stake are one and the same here. You have a company who was funded primarily by showing themselves as this unique card game that had focused attention on PvE, RPG elements. Then the CEO suddenly decides the crowd that funded the game wasn't the focal point, and instead chose to go for the multiplayer crowd - even as that's continued to snuff out the game's future. So long as Cory remains in charge, Hex remains a dying animal. Get rid of him, and there is the teeniest, tiniest chance at salvaging the game. But let's not pretend that people are being unfair in their dislike of Cory - he's basically left the game to die.

      I'm not sure what "solutions" you want the community to propose that someone involve it still being led by Cory.
      Never shift in to reverse without a backup plan.
    • Hidden wrote:

      @Mokog said just about everything I wanted to say (and better than I would have said it), but I would like to add two quick things...

      1) I still feel like calling his last forum post an open declaration of hostility to the players is the same as saying he's doing "everything but Hex" because he tweeted a picture of a trophy he made. There is a ton of extra context being applied that it probably isn't appropriate to apply.

      2) I Kickstarted this thing and - like so many of you - I used to jimp at every update, post, video, and Zophiegif. I understand why so many of you feel like Hex is not dealing with you in good faith, but I don't agree that the solution is to burn one person at the stake. Seek solutions, not revenge.
      Cory makes some good points, guys.
    • AceBladewing wrote:

      Mokog wrote:

      AceBladewing wrote:

      Then don't ask those same customers to give you the financials to get started. Sorry, but you can't have your cake and eat it too.
      That is not how kick starter works or has evolved to work. While there is a case for all features not having been delivered there is not a solid enough case for true investment. (Emotional investment yes but not true entitlements)
      That's absolutely true *legally*, but *morally* they owe some kind of transparency to their Kickstarter backers.
      Well he did said their finances where stable once and they didnt said otherwise atm so isnt that transparent or do you really want all the numbers.
    • Frederik wrote:

      AceBladewing wrote:

      Mokog wrote:

      AceBladewing wrote:

      Then don't ask those same customers to give you the financials to get started. Sorry, but you can't have your cake and eat it too.
      That is not how kick starter works or has evolved to work. While there is a case for all features not having been delivered there is not a solid enough case for true investment. (Emotional investment yes but not true entitlements)
      That's absolutely true *legally*, but *morally* they owe some kind of transparency to their Kickstarter backers.
      Well he did said their finances where stable once and they didnt said otherwise atm so isnt that transparent or do you really want all the numbers.
      Then where are our cash prizes?
    • Hidden wrote:

      @Mokog said just about everything I wanted to say (and better than I would have said it), but I would like to add two quick things...

      1) I still feel like calling his last forum post an open declaration of hostility to the players is the same as saying he's doing "everything but Hex" because he tweeted a picture of a trophy he made. There is a ton of extra context being applied that it probably isn't appropriate to apply.

      2) I Kickstarted this thing and - like so many of you - I used to jimp at every update, post, video, and Zophiegif. I understand why so many of you feel like Hex is not dealing with you in good faith, but I don't agree that the solution is to burn one person at the stake. Seek solutions, not revenge.
      Not having been around the whole time, you missed the other part of the equation, where a solid year of player feedback was completely ignored, and multiple, desperate attempts to open a dialogue about the many problems that were taking place were met with stony silence. The empty promises, the blatant copy and pasted updates with no other communication, the outright lies about progress that had supposedly been made but never materialized, and the many terrible decisions that were pointed out in advance but stubbornly pushed through anyway. There's a lot more bad stuff going on than you can read about on a (heavily censored) forum after the fact, especially if you're not actually digging below the first couple of pages and just assume the few posts you see on page 1 are the full story.

      You're very quick to condemn everyone except those actually responsible for the rapid downfall of the game. Maybe spend some time actually trying to understand before you waggle your finger from on high.
      --ossuary

      "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none."
      - Shakespeare, All's Well That Ends Well
    • Frederik wrote:

      AceBladewing wrote:

      Mokog wrote:

      AceBladewing wrote:

      Then don't ask those same customers to give you the financials to get started. Sorry, but you can't have your cake and eat it too.
      That is not how kick starter works or has evolved to work. While there is a case for all features not having been delivered there is not a solid enough case for true investment. (Emotional investment yes but not true entitlements)
      That's absolutely true *legally*, but *morally* they owe some kind of transparency to their Kickstarter backers.
      Well he did said their finances where stable once and they didnt said otherwise atm so isnt that transparent or do you really want all the numbers.
      Finances were never really stable imo. I dont think they made substantive profits. Maybe there was a quarter or two where they actually turned a profit but that probably was around steam release. The times have changed. I think gameforge worked as a source for money for a long time and sony did for a short time now. But not paying artists and players didnt start yesterday. Having to wait months for prize money is something that went on already far more than a year ago. The thing is they lied about it (which should be apparent in hindsight now).

      I will just link one article here:
      hextcg.com/a-message-from-cory-2015/

      This was better times but even back then I didnt believe for a second that we had 120,000 active monthly users. Even if you say "accounts" (and people can create more than one account of course) I dont believe that was ever true. I just reference this article to show that it is not unlikely that they have been not forthcoming with the true facts for a long time. Cory so often said in interviews etc. that a big marketing push coming was coming soon. The best we ever had was them buying twitch streamers for some promotion. And that was executed very poorly. Like so many things. The execution of all things was always lacking.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Metronomy ().

    • The Hex team execute everything like the guys from Office Space execute money laundering - by looking it up in the dictionary. Absolutely typical nerds... they assume they are smart enough to figure it all out, but then just fuck it up because they have no god damn idea what they're actually doing.
      --ossuary

      "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none."
      - Shakespeare, All's Well That Ends Well
    • Firellius wrote:

      I think it was Artistgate that did the trick. Not just the fact that it gave us a glimpse of how dire their financial situation really is, but also, more importantly, their management's style of dealing with problems. Which is to say, plug your fingers in your ears and pretend everything is fine. Cory openly declared his hostility towards the playerbase in the Friday update that followed, and ever since, the forums have been dying at a very fast pace.
      I forgot when Artistgate was exactly, but the big tip off for me that something was up was when Colin started posting less and less before disappearing all together. With how much he invested into the game, him disappearing was a HUGE red flag something was definitely off behind the scenes.
    • Pandaemonium wrote:

      If someone lied to you for a long period of time about progress of a certain item. Wouldnt you want that person to stop working on that project? I dont think anyone is dancing around a fire and saying we are happy that hex looks like it will go belly up
      I completely concur that those of us who have enjoyed the great game of Hex (core game design) for what it is authentically wish not for it to go belly up. In addition, if a leader of a project was deliberately lying to those emphatically involved, I also would vote to see that nefarious individual promptly removed from the particular enterprise. However, here's the [potential] rub: if Cory Jones is one of the primary catalysts for the current tumult of Hex, wouldn't it be extraordinarily difficult to separate him from Hex's future due to his present position within the game? Cory is the President/CEO of Hex, and with his Presidential Powers, is he not the sole entity that possesses "final say" on the direction of Hex's activities at the end of the day? If a population of persons desire, for example, a malicious dictator, to cease his or her shameful objectives, that removal would require a passionate and willing body to execute its plans. From what most of us have speculated, a body of persons able to expel Cory from his powerful position of Presidency is most likely non-existent at this point. My guess is that the remaining members of the Hex Team are either too apathetic, fatalistic, uninspired, or legally bound-up to attempt positional restructuring from the top down. Here's my point: if Cory, as the president of Hex, wishes for Hex to continue down its horribly bleak path of business-suicide, that's his maddeningly, seemingly illogical prerogative.

      Imho, if Cory has regrettably beguiled his faithful Kickstarters and hopeful remaining player-base, he and any other team perpetrators would need to courageously own up to their faults, offer up emphatic apologies to the community, and then provide possible resolutions for Hex's future. In all honesty, how many leaders these days have the balls to perform such a humble, noble feat...probably not too many, unfortunately. If the entire Hex Team is hiding behind a mysterious creature to preserve tenuous feelings of confidence, safety, or delusional bliss, then that is up to THEM to come clean and feasibly reverse the self-inflicted damning.

      Let's be real, we as a species have all fucked-up royally at some point in our lives; every single one of us is endowed with an imperfect nature. However, I believe that if Cory decides to put a brave foot forward and drive forth challenging transparency with the community, most of us would greatly respect and respond positively to any faults that we ALL are capable of. I suppose the trick is once establishing reconciliation, it's within one's best interest to MAINTAIN a course of correctness in this type of business.

      Anyways, that's my honest perspective on things...apparently, community-preferred succinctness is just not my thing. Fuck it!! Haha

      The post was edited 1 time, last by DetectiveHexCrux ().

    • I think artistgate was the start of the second shoe to drop. The first shoe was lack of pve development and that shoe dropped about a year ago. The hybrid pve/pvp people like me stopped spending alot of money on the game. The second shoe was artisgate, which showed that pvp itself was likely not a viable business model (even with ps4).

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Pandaemonium ().

    • It all comes down to crisis management. What we're seeing right now it's actually a kind of "fulfilled prophecy". People started to believe that this game was going dead. No one at HXE cared. As a consequence of this, people stopped playing (among other reasons - such as lack of pve dev, or just being tired of playing always the same thing) and investing. When things were going down (even for HXE terms), again, Hex did nothing to address this issue. They kind of tried with Merry Melee and Cosmic Coins, but, as everything, was a good idea bad implemented (specially merry melee). Then artistgate came and it kind of confirmed the feelings of a lot of people. More people dropped. HXE acted here, but very poorly, which only helped to throw more gasoline into the fire. Then set 10 delay came, and the game just died after that announcement. What more confirmation you need that this game is doing bad than the CEO saying that they don't have money for the artists? Even for someone who wasn't all that critic with HXE as I were, it was a tipping point.

      In the end, a lot of people will say that the game model was wrong. That it was poorly marketed or developed. Or that it was trying to fish players in an already saturated market. Or that they didn't gave PvE all the attention that it would need to make it successful. All of these holds some part of the true. What I believe is that essentially HXE f*cked up in those crucial moments where things were starting to go down and they didn't had a properly good plan to address those issue. Bad communication only increases the negative trend, which can be the last nail to the coffin. Even with limited resources, there are a lot of things you can do to engage your community through some dark times. Instead of that, HXE decided to shut down all communication channels until something happens (and right now, we only have two possible ways: total shutdown or a sale to another company).
      Twitter: @Plotynus
    • TheBlackCrypt wrote:

      What exactly are they doing other than half assed attempts to screw more money out of those that aren't in the know?
      Not talking much. Lying to us when they do.\

      Not responding to customer service tickets, either. Closing some without replying.

      Not fixing bugs. Leaving certain components of the game stuck in an awful state for no real good reason.
      Gamer. Streamer. Photographer. Writer. Anime Lover. Possessor of Stuffed Animals.

      Also... I'm terrible at this game.
    • DetectiveHexCrux wrote:

      Here's my point: if Cory, as the president of Hex, wishes for Hex to continue down its horribly bleak path of business-suicide, that's his maddeningly, seemingly illogical prerogative.
      Two things:
      Don't like your own posts, it's sad. =P

      I don't think any of us discount that Hex's future is entirely Cory's choice. We're just more concerned that it is his choice, because his decision-making has been strangling the life out of the game and community for years on end now.

      Pandaemonium wrote:

      I think artistgate was the start of the second shoe to drop. The first shoe was lack of pve development and that shoe dropped about a year ago. The hybrid pve/pvp people like me stopped spending alot of money on the game. The second shoe was artisgate, which showed that pvp itself was likely not a viable business model (even with ps4).
      Yeah, the lack of PvE development is what did me in. I joined back in 2016, and since then the only real PvE update I've gotten was Siege... A gamemode clearly angled towards PvP players.
      Never shift in to reverse without a backup plan.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by SaintVicarious ().

    • Plotynus wrote:

      It all comes down to crisis management.
      COMPLETELY AGREE WITH THIS, PLOTYNUS!!


      Plotynus wrote:

      What I believe is that essentially HXE f*cked up in those crucial moments where things were starting to go down and they didn't had a properly good plan to address those issue. Bad communication only increases the negative trend, which can be the last nail to the coffin. Even with limited resources, there are a lot of things you can do to engage your community through some dark times. Instead of that, HXE decided to shut down all communication channels until something happens (and right now, we only have two possible ways: total shutdown or a sale to another company).
      Imo, these are VERY enlightened perspectives, as well. Yes, these are extremely dark times for Hex, but "what the hell", why not attempt frequent dialogues with your player-base THROUGH the dark valley, HXE?!?! Cory Jones (if you get around to reading this), your players are PLAINLY expressing to you that the poor communication is severely detrimental to your already-decaying circumstances!! There are STILL supporters of your potentially-great game - all you gotta do is WAKE UP and HEAR THEM!! This perpetual state of ever-increasing distance from your players is absolutely LUDICROUS! *pant pant pant* haha If we as a community witnessed genuine communication NOW, we'd understand and possibly endure a bit more patience for the time required to PROPERLY implement the technical fixes and additions to Hex.

      CORY - maybe start out with small feats of communication:
      1. Why hasn't the Hex Team FIXED the socketable gems for the Flashback Drafts yet?
      2. Are you offended, discouraged with the community for whatever reason?
      3. Do you appreciate that some of us GENUINELY care and desire to help where we can?

      It may seem like an uber-cheesy example to aspire towards (Detroit: Become Human is just a video game, after all), but Markus' character in Detroit: Become Human is a portrayal that we may be looking for at this time - whether your leadership leads towards a bright future or the unfortunate end: either conclusion, I believe, would provide ample relief to the remaining scrappers.
    • I think the logical conclusion on why hex is not communicating is either 1. They dont care about the playerbase and are going to nickle and dime people until the game shuts down or 2. They are afraid to communicate with the player base because the game is going to shut down.

      Communicating about a potential buyer or partnership would likely help the game and the buyer/partner so I dont know why they wouldnt communicate more about that possibility. If buyers are falling through then look to the paragraph above.
    • DetectiveHexCrux wrote:

      if Cory Jones is one of the primary catalysts for the current tumult of Hex, wouldn't it be extraordinarily difficult to separate him from Hex's future due to his present position within the game?
      No, it's very easy. Why would you think otherwise? People step down from their duties all the time.

      DetectiveHexCrux wrote:

      Cory is the President/CEO of Hex, and with his Presidential Powers, is he not the sole entity that possesses "final say" on the direction of Hex's activities at the end of the day?
      The company's board hires the CEO. The shareholders also have power. If a bank has given a company a loan, you can bet that they have a say over things too. I don't know where you get your ideas but they're not how things work.

      DetectiveHexCrux wrote:

      if Cory has regrettably beguiled his faithful Kickstarters and hopeful remaining player-base, he and any other team perpetrators would need to courageously own up to their faults, offer up emphatic apologies to the community, and then provide possible resolutions for Hex's future.
      First of all, they have lied, not just beguiled. They COULD NOT have been working on PvE when they weren't able to pay artists, pay prizes and pay to have a healthy number of employees.
      For the second part, yes.

      DetectiveHexCrux wrote:

      how many leaders these days have the balls to perform such a humble, noble feat...probably not too many, unfortunately.
      More than you think, I guess. You say it like it's akin to Jesus dieing for our sins.

      DetectiveHexCrux wrote:

      Let's be real, we as a species have all fucked-up royally at some point in our lives; every single one of us is endowed with an imperfect nature. However, I believe that if Cory decides to put a brave foot forward and drive forth challenging transparency with the community, most of us would greatly respect and respond positively to any faults that we ALL are capable of.
      There is absolutely 0 connection between the rest of the quote and the bolded part. HXE has fucked up and should own it up. The "We're all human, since they said they're sorry that makes it all square" is irrelevant.

      Plotynus wrote:

      What we're seeing right now it's actually a kind of "fulfilled prophecy". People started to believe that this game was going dead. No one at HXE cared.
      I disagree because a self-fulfilling prophecy starts from that: a prophecy, a rumour, nothing substantial. In this case, there was a plethory of evidence that HXE was not working on their PvE promises. THAT was what started EVERYTHING.
    • @Vroengard: The game had a "stable" continuum for about 2 years (around 2k/3k active players per month, give or take, according to Fred's data). One could argue if that was enough, but it was paying the bills and for example, allowed HXE to have cash prizes and a stable set release schedule. Of course, we all knew that situation wouldn't last forever. When we were talking about PvE, the discussion was if it were the way for Hex to grow. I had a different opinion, but none of that matters anymore. Now we're talking about the death of the game. Different discussions.

      The current situation we're seeing is not because PvE. It's because mismanagement. The current downhill it's because the artistgate + the update from Cory. People stopped playing because the discussion now it's not if the game will grow or not, but when they will shut down the game. And that shift relies mostly on how HXE decided to handle the current crisis.
      Twitter: @Plotynus