Stone me if you want, but - PvE???

    • TheBlackCrypt wrote:

      A business needs income and that income comes from the PVP side of the game so it's no big surprise that PVE is on the back burner and a PVP only console version is close to being released. Perhaps no clear direction has been supplied for PVE because none really exists?
      And if that's the case, it does not bode well for the game as a whole. I am not a huge investor, but I have put money into the game. If PvE were being stopped or if I was unlikely to see any fun PvE stuff anytime soon I'd probably not put another cent into the game. Because I'd have no reason to. I'd probably still play some limited but not nearly as much and at this point I have enough in my collection to fund evo for a very long time. I'd just need to sell the cards I'm excited to use in PvE in stead of keeping them... but if there's no PvE to use them in, there's no point.

      Just because PvE doesn't generate direct income, doesn't mean it doesn't generate income. Additionally, there are ways they could monetize pve if they were but willing.
      Gamer. Streamer. Photographer. Writer. Anime Lover. Possessor of Stuffed Animals.

      Also... I'm terrible at this game.
    • TheBlackCrypt wrote:

      A business needs income and that income comes from the PVP side of the game so it's no big surprise that PVE is on the back burner and a PVP only console version is close to being released. Perhaps no clear direction has been supplied for PVE because none really exists?
      And Hex is doing a good job with income from pvp? That is what is so weird, pve could be a gold mine. Pvp is niche and has been niche since it started in Hex.
    • OzawaWanderer wrote:

      Long as they don't make PVE freemium orr pay 2 play micro trans is fine if I had a debit card I'd love to support Hex to be frank.
      For what it's worth, an option for you would be going to a convenience store / drug store / similar outlet to purchase pre-loaded cards for cash. That would give you a method of supporting Hex despite not having a debit card.
    • OzawaWanderer wrote:

      TheBlackCrypt wrote:

      A business needs income and that income comes from the PVP side of the game so it's no big surprise that the PVE is on the back burner and a console version is close to being released. Perhaps no clear direction has been supplied for PVE because none really exists?
      Yeah and a lot of players kickstarted for PVE like "Raid Leader or Guild Owner" tiers and we got none of that. What your implying is Hex doesn't care bout PVE....
      I backed at Dungeon Crawler so I know exactly what you mean. It's not that they don't care about PVE, but it's a drain on resources that could be used elsewhere to generate income.
    • Blackwood wrote:

      OzawaWanderer wrote:

      Long as they don't make PVE freemium orr pay 2 play micro trans is fine if I had a debit card I'd love to support Hex to be frank.
      For what it's worth, an option for you would be going to a convenience store / drug store / similar outlet to purchase pre-loaded cards for cash. That would give you a method of supporting Hex despite not having a debit card.
      I was thinking of that to buy a PDF but my mom insisted not to.
      Lore Hound: Self Proclaimed Expert to Hex Lore (and right 80% of time with theories)
    • TheBlackCrypt wrote:

      I backed at Dungeon Crawler so I know exactly what you mean. It's not that they don't care about PVE, but it's a drain on resources that could be used elsewhere to generate income.
      That's one way to look at it.

      Another is: "If we use some of our resources on PvE in the right way, we could generate income from there too."

      I prefer the latter.
      Gamer. Streamer. Photographer. Writer. Anime Lover. Possessor of Stuffed Animals.

      Also... I'm terrible at this game.
    • The argument that PvE does not bring in $ can't be valid.

      People are always willing to spend $ on game modes that they find appealing. People are even perfectly fine spending $ on good F2P games just for visual, non-funcntional upgrades (LoL and PoE come to mind).

      For a lot of people, that game mode in Hex is PvE. Just because HXE hasn't monetized PvE nearly as much as they can doesn't mean PvE can't bring in $. From what we hear in these forums, there's in fact plenty of people that have spent $ for PvE only. If you invest your resources into other fun PvE modes (Keeps perhaps before Crafting/Raids) with better monetization opportunities, you can turn your PvE development into a cash cow.

      Cory mentioned a Sealed PvE mode on the General Tent interview. Yes, please implement Hell's Pit. It will make you money. Implement the low-hanging fruit of Keeps. It will generate so much content that no one will be complaining about when the next AZ Zone will be. Time to show that agility we have reached by going with self-publishing. :)
    • Chrome wrote:

      The argument that PvE does not bring in $ can't be valid.

      People are always willing to spend $ on game modes that they find appealing. People are even perfectly fine spending $ on good F2P games just for visual, non-funcntional upgrades (LoL and PoE come to mind).

      For a lot of people, that game mode in Hex is PvE. Just because HXE hasn't monetized PvE nearly as much as they can doesn't mean PvE can't bring in $. From what we hear in these forums, there's in fact plenty of people that have spent $ for PvE only. If you invest your resources into other fun PvE modes (Keeps perhaps before Crafting/Raids) with better monetization opportunities, you can turn your PvE development into a cash cow.

      Cory mentioned a Sealed PvE mode on the General Tent interview. Yes, please implement Hell's Pit. It will make you money. Implement the low-hanging fruit of Keeps. It will generate so much content that no one will be complaining about when the next AZ Zone will be. Time to show that agility we have reached by going with self-publishing. :)
      I didn't word my post very well, I was trying to convey that its the PVP side of Hex that pays the bills, you are quite right in saying that the PVE side of the game does generate income but stack that against the development costs of PVE and I am sure you will find it doesn't even scratch the surface. I'm sure that PVE only income has also taken a hit with the recent nerfing of Gears/Roars setting a prescient for many peoples future plat purchases for PVE cards. Does it not make sense then to focus on the highest income generating part of the game? (even if it's just to get a steady flow of income and *then* start to look at the red headed step child of Hex)
    • The argument that PvE does not make HEX money is a fallacy and a truth, because the money made goes into PVP players pockets, at least, temporarily.
      It's a bizarre system tbh, because of the ways we need to shake hands with the other side for trade:

      PVE players = Gold
      PVP players = Plat
      Gold Sold = Plat
      Plat ==> Chests and cards
      Chests = Gold Costs
      Chest Gold Costs = PvE Items
      PvE Items and PvP cards sold ==> PvE players

      The highlighted interaction is the only one being addressed by PvP players, while they offset their costs by selling PvE cards/equipment/etc.
    • TheBlackCrypt wrote:

      Chrome wrote:

      The argument that PvE does not bring in $ can't be valid.

      People are always willing to spend $ on game modes that they find appealing. People are even perfectly fine spending $ on good F2P games just for visual, non-funcntional upgrades (LoL and PoE come to mind).

      For a lot of people, that game mode in Hex is PvE. Just because HXE hasn't monetized PvE nearly as much as they can doesn't mean PvE can't bring in $. From what we hear in these forums, there's in fact plenty of people that have spent $ for PvE only. If you invest your resources into other fun PvE modes (Keeps perhaps before Crafting/Raids) with better monetization opportunities, you can turn your PvE development into a cash cow.

      Cory mentioned a Sealed PvE mode on the General Tent interview. Yes, please implement Hell's Pit. It will make you money. Implement the low-hanging fruit of Keeps. It will generate so much content that no one will be complaining about when the next AZ Zone will be. Time to show that agility we have reached by going with self-publishing. :)
      I didn't word my post very well, I was trying to convey that its the PVP side of Hex that pays the bills, you are quite right in saying that the PVE side of the game does generate income but stack that against the development costs of PVE and I am sure you will find it doesn't even scratch the surface. I'm sure that PVE only income has also taken a hit with the recent nerfing of Gears/Roars setting a prescient for many peoples future plat purchases for PVE cards. Does it not make sense then to focus on the highest income generating part of the game? (even if it's just to get a steady flow of income and *then* start to look at the red headed step child of Hex)
      That's also unfortunately what HXE seems to think is the only way forward. But there is another way.

      What if you instead lowered the cost of PvE side of the game while putting in proper monetization? Campaign and AZs are expensive to make and have little to no monetization. HXE is not obligated to continue along this path. They can instead give us the Keeps framework presented by Bootlace and the Sealed PvE mode suggested by several including me in the past. These are not nearly as costly as they largely use existing game functions/graphics/designs and can keep the PvE community happy and spending while we wait for modes that are much harder to implement like Raids.
    • Coyote wrote:

      It just makes me so sad and frustrated. :(
      - I would immediately buy more char slots for platinum to level more chars in the content we have now
      - And buy more cards on AH - or even packs - to get more cards i need for various interesting decks for those new characters
      - I would pay platinum for more campaign chapters (after the core from kickstarter is done ofc)

      I'm going to repeat this because it comes up often - I DO NOT support the idea of paying for additional character slots and I find the suggestion absurd. The only thing keeping slots down is a number that could be adjusted at any time, there is no additional work going into it and I am unwilling to pay for something that is artificially scarce in this manner. The number of slots should've been higher and should be made higher and it should not have a cost associated with it, if you pay for things that don't merit payment you encourage bad business practices. Hex is free to sell things that use new assets like new character portraits, AA 'tokens', boards, plinths, etc. but character slots are not a new asset and I really have to strongly encourage everyone to stop giving HexEnt such a terrible idea as charging people for them to raise a number they should've raised literal years ago, for free.
    • NicoSharp wrote:

      Chrome - I'd be curious to get some insight from Bootlace and you as to how popular PvE related purchases are on your site? To quell some of these myths?
      It generally supports the opinion we see here in the forums. There are passionate PvE players out there that want to enjoy the PvE content presented to its fullest, taking advantage of the sandbox deckbuilding opportunities and unlimited card/equipment permutations in a hassle-free no-pressure environment. The demand for good PvP cards doesn't solely come from Constructed PvP players either...
    • NicoSharp wrote:

      The argument that PvE does not make HEX money is a fallacy and a truth, because the money made goes into PVP players pockets, at least, temporarily.
      It's a bizarre system tbh, because of the ways we need to shake hands with the other side for trade:

      PVE players = Gold
      PVP players = Plat
      Gold Sold = Plat
      Plat ==> Chests and cards
      Chests = Gold Costs
      Chest Gold Costs = PvE Items
      PvE Items and PvP cards sold ==> PvE players

      The highlighted interaction is the only one being addressed by PvP players, while they offset their costs by selling PvE cards/equipment/etc.
      But if a PvE player buys platinum to get cards, then that is money in hexent's wallet that wouldn't have been in hexent's wallet without pve. The platinum has entered the economy, and will be eventually depleted by ah costs, tourny fees, or buying pvp packs just like what happens when pvp players buy platinum.
    • NicoSharp wrote:

      Sure - harder to draw those lines though. They buy plat and then they use AH or purchase from players. They are not buying packs or joining limited modes. So, it's pretty easy for someone to obnoxiously say "Data shows that PvE players don't spend money on HEX"
      PVE players *do* spend money on the game but they don't spend anywhere near enough to support the ongoing development of the PVE side of the game, that much is a given right?
    • Not really. Unless we have production costs for the PvE elements and the spending habits of primarially PvE players.

      Also, there was talk a while back from HexEnt about 'buckets'(?) that had to be built and that, once built, PvE content would be easy to produce. We were told many of those buckets were complete.
    • Good PVE-experience is what can drag lots of people into the game and then convert them into "PVE+PVP" or just "PVP" players, and this way make income for HXE.
      If it doesn't at the moment - it means PVE isn't good enough yet (even though it's better than in any other digital card game currently).
      So the statement "PVE doesn't make any income" is false.
      PVE simply needs more attention from devs, may be even some rework and implementation of promised features, just new AZ with no new features wouldn't work.