Kismet Packs feel bad

    • Sukebe wrote:

      You always seem to think your opinion is shared by the majority of others, but it just isn't.
      I wouldn't say majority. I would say enough that it will have a long-term impact.

      I rarely assume I represent a majority, but if this thread is any indication, I am absolutely 100% not alone in disliking the current droprates.

      Sukebe wrote:

      others start buying them.
      I also doubt this is goiung to happen. Nobody who wasn't interested in them before is suddenly going to become interested in them. There's no reason to. There's nothing changing about them. People don't suddenly decide 'you know, that thing I had no interest in yesterday, today... today I love'. There's always a reason for people to change their mind. You know, like if Hex were to adjust the droprates in a positive way. That'd be a change that might add more people to the buying pool.

      However, I do agree that 'some people stop buying them' - that absolutely happens. We've heard about 4 or 5 people in this thread alone say they're losing interest. And they can't be the only ones. Studies have shown that for every person who is willing to vocalize a complaint, there are usually anywhere between 5 and 20 times that many people who were thinking along the same line who simply didn't bother to vocalize it - either 'cause they didn't want to dwell, they didn't care enough, they were lazy, or they felt it wouldn't change anything.

      Now, obviously, 5 to 20 times the 4-5 people here isn't a majority. But if 100 people stopped buying the items... that removes say 5000 of these 'limited availability' items from the economy, if we assume each person bought 50 packs... which then makes them even scarcer. And makes them even more costly, and less available. And thus hurts new players looking for these items even more. But you don't care about those people, so I guess that's that.
      Gamer. Streamer. Photographer. Writer. Anime Lover. Possessor of Stuffed Animals.

      Also... I'm terrible at this game.
    • Ertzi wrote:

      Silvanos wrote:

      Here are the other most recent sales of the Kismet Pack legendaries, since you conveniently picked the second most expensive one and ignored all the rest. Many of these can be had for even lower prices if you look back at the most recent 5 sales.
      Raven's More 5000p (this has sold as high as 7500p recently, and seems to be a legitimately expensive piece of gear)
      Royal Crib 2500p
      Blade of Sekki 1900
      Chest of the Oni Order 2600p
      Marmaladers 800p
      Fruit Punchers 3600p
      Blood Soaked Tiara 539p
      Captivating Guise 2600p
      To be honest, these are pretty ludicrous prices. Everyone has a different threshold of course, but in my opinion, when a single piece of equipment is priced more than, let's say 750 plat, things are getting a bit ridiculous. Even that seems somewhat insane to me. In this I agree with Eraia. It's getting a bit too extreme.
      This is ordinary F2P pricing. F2P games let gamers pay as much as they want, when some of them are willing to pay insane amounts, insanely priced items are printed.
      It does have its downsides and is frequently criticized, but so far the more traditionally priced games are giving way.
    • Arkansaw wrote:

      If you spend gold on kismet packs, over time you will lose due to Gamblers ruin. So if you have a lot of gold, it should be spent elsewhere. You don't work hard to win a lottery because it is not meant to give fair returns or work as an investment vehicle.

      Just let the handful of players trade among themselves for these 'valuable' content
      You seem to have missed that these packs are supposed to sink gold from the economy. If we decide they aren't worth buying then they will fail in that job. If the items lose value because we buy too many then that's absolutely fine since the packs are still selling and sinking the gold.
    • Timlagor wrote:

      Arkansaw wrote:

      If you spend gold on kismet packs, over time you will lose due to Gamblers ruin. So if you have a lot of gold, it should be spent elsewhere. You don't work hard to win a lottery because it is not meant to give fair returns or work as an investment vehicle.

      Just let the handful of players trade among themselves for these 'valuable' content
      You seem to have missed that these packs are supposed to sink gold from the economy. If we decide they aren't worth buying then they will fail in that job. If the items lose value because we buy too many then that's absolutely fine since the packs are still selling and sinking the gold.
      You seem to miss the fact that if they failed at their job they would be changed. They got changed from 30 to 15 because the impulse buy probably got hit hard by the prize, at 15 we have had no changes. Do you see where your logic fails you seem to think that they can't fail or they will get changed yet you declare them a failure.

      The thing is i wouldn't mind if they changed them a lot of people seem to think I'm pro 4k plat equipments, i am actually not. If it was up to me i would have the packs drop in FRA or Campaign while active in the store even as a very rare treat after they rotate out. All i am defending is the idea of a gold sink and a free market both of these things are working as intended.

      TL:DR
      I want more packs/items for less gold but packs are working as intended so i accept that.
    • Timlagor wrote:

      I didn't miss that. It just wasn't relevant to his argument which was that most people should stop buying something designed to be bought in large numbers.
      If you don't get something useful within a few packs, you should stop. Otherwise please make sure to avoid casinos if you don't know when to stop..
      "Winning with terrormill is not fun? Try losing with it"
    • Arkansaw wrote:

      Timlagor wrote:

      I didn't miss that. It just wasn't relevant to his argument which was that most people should stop buying something designed to be bought in large numbers.
      If you don't get something useful within a few packs, you should stop. Otherwise please make sure to avoid casinos if you don't know when to stop..
      If the entire goal for you is to gain monetary value from the time you spend you should be at work or in case you are unemployed be filling out surveys as this is a net positive.
    • Arkansaw wrote:

      Timlagor wrote:

      I didn't miss that. It just wasn't relevant to his argument which was that most people should stop buying something designed to be bought in large numbers.
      If you don't get something useful within a few packs, you should stop. Otherwise please make sure to avoid casinos if you don't know when to stop..
      I am fine with kismet packs but I will say this argument is why I am not particularly fond of the chest and kismet packs. I know tcg/ccg skirt the line of gambling. But kismet packs do feel like loot boxes and that is not the most mainstream popular thing at the moment.
    • Although 'ripoff' may not be the correct term it is essentially right that on average we will lose more than we gain, such is the case for all booster pack opening. Some people enjoy the gambling, some people do not. I'm firmly in the latter camp. I wouldn't want to be found dead in a casino, I've never played a lottery and I still regret the 10 bucks I once threw in a slow machine when I was around 18, to try it out.

      Doesn't make it a 'bad' concept though, it's just not for everyone but as long as it works towards the goal that HEX wants to achieve with it why not? Apparently the goal wasn't achieved when they were still double the price so they altered it. They may change something up again along the way.
      "Ignorant beliefs are stains upon the mind."
    • Wolzarg wrote:

      You seem to miss the fact that if they failed at their job they would be changed. They got changed from 30 to 15 because the impulse buy probably got hit hard by the prize, at 15 we have had no changes. Do you see where your logic fails you seem to think that they can't fail or they will get changed yet you declare them a failure.

      The thing is i wouldn't mind if they changed them a lot of people seem to think I'm pro 4k plat equipments, i am actually not. If it was up to me i would have the packs drop in FRA or Campaign while active in the store even as a very rare treat after they rotate out. All i am defending is the idea of a gold sink and a free market both of these things are working as intended.

      TL:DR
      I want more packs/items for less gold but packs are working as intended so i accept that.
      Bear in mind that it takes TIME for numbers to drop, and I don't know if you've noticed this, but Hex is pretty slow to react when it comes to PvE matters most of the time.

      I fully expect the numbers to drop... but I'm trying to warn them ahead of time thati t's coming some they can pre-emptively make it better to avoid creating hardship for new players down the line who might ALSO want these items.

      Transience wrote:

      Although 'ripoff' may not be the correct term it is essentially right that on average we will lose more than we gain, such is the case for all booster pack opening. Some people enjoy the gambling, some people do not. I'm firmly in the latter camp. I wouldn't want to be found dead in a casino, I've never played a lottery and I still regret the 10 bucks I once threw in a slow machine when I was around 18, to try it out.

      Doesn't make it a 'bad' concept though, it's just not for everyone but as long as it works towards the goal that HEX wants to achieve with it why not? Apparently the goal wasn't achieved when they were still double the price so they altered it. They may change something up again along the way.
      Gambling si not a bad concept... but there's a science behind making gambling feel good so people want to engage in it. Casinos go to great lengths to ensure people feel very good about their gambling while they're doing it... people get paid a LOT of money to help ensure that the gambling 'works'.

      For example, Fortnite's loot llamas are similar to opening a pack, and they frequently contain garbage... but the entire experience is played up to make it engaging. First of all, you're hitting a shining llama with a weapon of some sort. The llama makes jokes as you'er about to hit it. As you swing, it makes a pun based off of what you're about to hit it with. There's a small chance that when you hit it it undergoes a transformation becoming a BETTER llama. This can happen multiple times. And then at the end you get a satisfying explosion as stuff falls down and you see the loot you got. You always get multiple items, and every item has a chance to be interesting.

      The whole experience is cohesive and engaging, start to finish. Opening a kismet pack is dry, bland, has just one item, and more often than not that item sucks... additionally, the highest value items are so rare you virtually never see them, and there aren't enough of them to mitigate the high rarity(ie. you know you're always getting garbage, as opposed to having a chance of getting SOMETHING nice). Overall, it's just a poorly designed gambling experience.

      Compare that with opening a standard pvp pack. When you open it, you get a shiny pack opening animation, followed by a gradual display of its contents, leading up to the first reveal - did you get a rare or a legendary? Once you know whether you got a rare or a legendary, the non-rare cards reveal, showing you whether you get any commons/uncommons that might be fun to use(especially when you don't yet have a full c/uc playset) or something that might sell for a decent amount of gold. After you've seen all of that, you have to click on it to reveal the final card - the rare or legendary. And even if you only get a rare, every set has a few rares that are among the top 5 cards in value, so there're plenty of chances for value. There're dozens of rares/legendaries all told, and among them at least a dozen that are worth a fair bit - so again, you have a lot of CHANCES for it to be good, so while you may not always get a Bride of the Damned in every set 6 pack, you could also get a Daughter, Emsee, or one of the Wells and still get pretty good value. A much more engaging experience overall... and one with more options for value, and thus having individually rare items isn't as big of a problem.
      Gamer. Streamer. Photographer. Writer. Anime Lover. Possessor of Stuffed Animals.

      Also... I'm terrible at this game.
    • I don't know about experience. There is no difference to me between buying a kismet pack or opening a PvP pack because I simply don't care. I'll buy a few Kismet packs 1 by 1 until I get the sleeves because I'm aware that there is an extremely high probability that I'll get the sleeves before I spent the amount of gold that I would want to spent if i could just get the Sleeves for a set amount of gold. I don't ever open PvP packs as I don't see the point in doing so.

      I'm sure you're right that to some the experience matters but it's still a subjective thing.
      "Ignorant beliefs are stains upon the mind."
    • Based on my experience as a blackjack dealer i can tell you that all it takes is one highroll to bring most people back. They don't expect to get a "equipment" every "pack" but as long as they get it once or twice they will gamble again and again. The morality of this is obviously a whole other matter not fitt for this thread.
    • Wolzarg wrote:

      Based on my experience as a blackjack dealer i can tell you that all it takes is one highroll to bring most people back. They don't expect to get a "equipment" every "pack" but as long as they get it once or twice they will gamble again and again. The morality of this is obviously a whole other matter not fitt for this thread.
      I think the morality is fit for the thread because in the long run it effects the success of the game. There is a backlash right now for things like this in games. You could argue kismet packs feel bad because people do not want to gamble.

      Edit I am fine with the system and I dont think anything will happen in the U.S. However some countries in Europe may not want any more of lock boxes. PS4 has been delayed for Europe for awhile and that may be a reason.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Pandaemonium ().

    • Pandaemonium wrote:



      Edit I am fine with the system and I dont think anything will happen in the U.S. However some countries in Europe may not want any more of lock boxes. PS4 has been delayed for Europe for awhile and that may be a reason.
      Yep, the last thing isn't said about that. As far as I know Belgium is looking to ban games that have lock boxes and The Netherlands is investigating as well. I would not be surprised if it becomes an European Union thing at some point.
      "Ignorant beliefs are stains upon the mind."