Kismet Packs feel bad

    • Silvanos wrote:

      The cherry picked statistics really make this a compelling argument. Fruit Punchers have sold for over 2k exactly twice, ever (as far as HexPrice knows), and one of them happened to be the most recent sale. The other legendary from that pack routinely sells for less than 1000p. Curiously, you omitted that one from your analysis.

      Stormcoat is probably the rarest equipment in the entire game. It's not amazing powerful but it's certainly good, and it last sold for only 2500p, with other recent sales below 1000p. I was actually very surprised at how cheap this equipment has gotten, I expect it to be the standard for what these might sell for one day.

      Here are the other most recent sales of the Kismet Pack legendaries, since you conveniently picked the second most expensive one and ignored all the rest. Many of these can be had for even lower prices if you look back at the most recent 5 sales.
      Raven's More 5000p (this has sold as high as 7500p recently, and seems to be a legitimately expensive piece of gear)
      Royal Crib 2500p
      Blade of Sekki 1900
      Chest of the Oni Order 2600p
      Marmaladers 800p
      Fruit Punchers 3600p
      Blood Soaked Tiara 539p
      Captivating Guise 2600p

      In general, much closer to the 500-2000p range you are asking for than the 4000-8000 range you say will hurt the game.

      Honestly, I don't really care what these packs cost, or what the rarity is. They are a gold sink that holds up the value of gold, and I don't farm gold so I don't really care how much it's worth. It seems to be good for the game to keep the value of gold from completely tanking, which is something these chase items help do. I've just been holding out this irrational hope that one day you'll understand that you can't have PVE-acquired items that are simultaneously valuable, powerful, and high drop-rate.
      Um... we have 3 items total under 2k in that listing. Yep totally a majority in the range I consider healthy. Totally.

      Ya know, I think I might need to block you. You misinterpret everything I say, and at this point I'm beginning to think it's intentional.

      I've never asked for "PVE-acquired items that are simultaneously valuable, powerful, and high drop-rate." - what I've said is that they've gone TOO FAR to the OPPOSITE EXTREME. There's a threshold at which point the drop rate is TOO LOW to be healthy. They've crossed that. Simple. I don't want them to make the droprate 50%. But adding another 2 or 3% to the droprates(and taking that % away from the most common items) will make it feel much more obtainable, drop the price down a notch, but not make it have no value at all.

      It's about a middle ground.

      Realistically, more and more people are givingu p on buying Kismet packs from what I'm reading. Next set I'm probably just going to buy enough until I get the merc and stop. That should cut out a good 300-400 thousand gold I spend on the things, and mean I spend less time on the game farming for it. But I guess that's what we want... people to NOT WANT TO BUY THESE THINGS.
      Gamer. Streamer. Photographer. Writer. Anime Lover. Possessor of Stuffed Animals.

      Also... I'm terrible at this game.
    • Opalia wrote:

      Just accept that you can't get every thing in HEX - then you feel much better and less poor.
      Be happy about all the thing you got not the few thingd you missed.
      And, taking that to its logical conclusion, I can spend my money on something other than Hex and be happy about the new thing I've purchased and not the thing I missed.

      Anyone want to buy a collection? I was pretty good about getting play sets of things up until the last couple of sets. . . somehow, after I started to get holes in my collection, doing the collection just lost its appeal for me. . . .

      Was that what you were talking about, @Opalia?
    • Dylan wrote:

      Opalia wrote:

      Just accept that you can't get every thing in HEX - then you feel much better and less poor.
      Be happy about all the thing you got not the few thingd you missed.
      And, taking that to its logical conclusion, I can spend my money on something other than Hex and be happy about the new thing I've purchased and not the thing I missed.
      Anyone want to buy a collection? I was pretty good about getting play sets of things up until the last couple of sets. . . somehow, after I started to get holes in my collection, doing the collection just lost its appeal for me. . . .

      Was that what you were talking about, @Opalia?
      The fact that in your post you're implying you want to sell your collection is the answer to why not everyone can easily get everything unless they go the extra mile(s).

      Because then they'd be worth nothing.

      So yes, you (not singling you out, "you" as in "Everyone") can go and spend their money elsewhere and get everything that "elsewhere" has to offer (if it follows that business model) and hope that they get their money's worth because that money's practically gone forever.

      EDIT: @Eraia Better?

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Vroengard ().

    • Vroengard wrote:

      easily get everything.
      How many times do we have to have this false statement come up and be countered before people actually read even ONE of the counters?

      Nobody wants it to be easy. However, there's a point at which it becomes TOO difficult.

      If I give you free oranges every day, that's probably too easy.

      If I make you run from Alaska to Florida to pick your own, that's way too hard.

      See where I'm going with this?

      We don't have to have 1 or 100, we can have somewhere in the middle. Right now, these droprates are TOO low for the rare stuff. That doesn't mean we want everything to be free, or nothing to have value... can people PLEASE stop trying to act like everyone in this thread wants to go from one extreme to the other? Please? It's insulting to us all.
      Gamer. Streamer. Photographer. Writer. Anime Lover. Possessor of Stuffed Animals.

      Also... I'm terrible at this game.
    • Airtron wrote:

      Convocation packs (which were replaced by kismet packs) felt so much better. You got them naturally by farming FRA/dungeons, and even though they still had that super rare legendary equipment, it didn't feel like such a chore to grind the gold for them. I wish they brought that model back.
      I think there is room for both honestly i think they should either have the active packs randomly drop somewhere or have a rotation so its like kismet pack kismet pack dropped pack kismet pack kismet pack dropped pack.

      I do get that a lot of work goes into them so they need to get some game value for it in this case taking gold out of the economy but i also think a lot of pve players would have their enjoyment bolstered by one of these options adding more activity to the auction house and better pve player retention.

      Timlagor wrote:

      No one seem interested in defending the fact you can buy a playset of the most expensive PVP card for the price you can find some of these for without a lot of spamming in trade chat
      Because it is relevant to the discussion a black lotus is worth the same as a brick of gold both are somewhat useful in certain circumstances but mainly just there to maintain or increase in value.


      Also everyone need to remember the bird packs cost twice as much which means logically the cards from them should cost twice as much.
    • Timlagor wrote:

      No one seem interested in defending the fact you can buy a playset of the most expensive PVP card for the price you can find some of these for without a lot of spamming in trade chat

      That is because it's not relevant to do so.
      They are two different things.

      You can also not buy a car for $50.000 and have 9 years worth of groceries.

      Some of the comments in the forum seem to hint at capping the price for an item.
      But doing so will distort the market, also making investments worth less in the long run.

      But as the Price of an Item determines it's value.
      Capping the price would cause all kinds of problems.
      You cannot cap an economy, or you will have no economy.

      If a Market is not sufficiently free, there is no market.

      Summery:
      Price determines value
      We determine Price on what we value
      Scarcity makes price go up or down.
      Time is money & Money is time
      Money & Time are Scares which is why it has value

      These are the Building blocks of any functioning Civilization.

      Once again, Nothing is stopping anyone wanting to get any goodies in the game.
      You just have to up your game.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Adaline: 2 words corrected ().

    • Silvanos wrote:

      Here are the other most recent sales of the Kismet Pack legendaries, since you conveniently picked the second most expensive one and ignored all the rest. Many of these can be had for even lower prices if you look back at the most recent 5 sales.
      Raven's More 5000p (this has sold as high as 7500p recently, and seems to be a legitimately expensive piece of gear)
      Royal Crib 2500p
      Blade of Sekki 1900
      Chest of the Oni Order 2600p
      Marmaladers 800p
      Fruit Punchers 3600p
      Blood Soaked Tiara 539p
      Captivating Guise 2600p
      To be honest, these are pretty ludicrous prices. Everyone has a different threshold of course, but in my opinion, when a single piece of equipment is priced more than, let's say 750 plat, things are getting a bit ridiculous. Even that seems somewhat insane to me. In this I agree with Eraia. It's getting a bit too extreme.
    • Timlagor wrote:

      Adaline wrote:

      Timlagor wrote:

      No one seem interested in defending the fact you can buy a playset of the most expensive PVP card for the price you can find some of these for without a lot of spamming in trade chat
      That is because it's not relevant to do so.They are two different things.
      Please do not interpret my not replying to your points as being in any way persuaded by anything you say.

      Nor does putting ones fingers in their ears give any more credibility to their arguments.

      While my words were not exactly meant to stir up the butterflies in your tummy.
      Nor were they meant to bruise ones ego, or hurt ones feelings.
      I do apologize Sir TimLagor.

      My words were simply meant in the nicest possible way, explaining the fragility of the market.
      That one must act with restraint and careful consideration, influencing any market anywhere.
      That also things may be different then what seems to you, then to another.

      I care about this game :) , and what happens in the market has a great effect on this game.

      Do what thou will.
      I shall leave ye be

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Adaline: Correction typo his > This ().

    • If you spend gold on kismet packs, over time you will lose due to Gamblers ruin. So if you have a lot of gold, it should be spent elsewhere. You don't work hard to win a lottery because it is not meant to give fair returns or work as an investment vehicle.

      Just let the handful of players trade among themselves for these 'valuable' content
      "Winning with terrormill is not fun? Try losing with it"
    • Arkansaw wrote:

      If you spend gold on kismet packs, over time you will lose due to Gamblers ruin. So if you have a lot of gold, it should be spent elsewhere. You don't work hard to win a lottery because it is not meant to give fair returns or work as an investment vehicle.

      Just let the handful of players trade among themselves for these 'valuable' content
      The problem is that, unlike a lottery, these prizes go away if not won.

      So if nobody spends a lot of gold on these packs, then there simply are NONE of these items for anyone to use. Which means it is very important that these packs feel rewarding to buy, so that the items exist at all.
      Gamer. Streamer. Photographer. Writer. Anime Lover. Possessor of Stuffed Animals.

      Also... I'm terrible at this game.
    • Eraia wrote:

      Arkansaw wrote:

      If you spend gold on kismet packs, over time you will lose due to Gamblers ruin. So if you have a lot of gold, it should be spent elsewhere. You don't work hard to win a lottery because it is not meant to give fair returns or work as an investment vehicle.

      Just let the handful of players trade among themselves for these 'valuable' content
      The problem is that, unlike a lottery, these prizes go away if not won.
      So if nobody spends a lot of gold on these packs, then there simply are NONE of these items for anyone to use. Which means it is very important that these packs feel rewarding to buy, so that the items exist at all.

      It will be rewarding to a minority of people (who get the good stuff within a few packs), with very good luck you have a chance to be part of this minority, but otherwise don't buy them unless you have nothing else to do with the gold..

      If you want a specific items out of these 'good stuff', then you are in for a really bad time due to inefficient market and trading.
      "Winning with terrormill is not fun? Try losing with it"
    • Arkansaw wrote:

      It will be rewarding to a minority of people (who get the good stuff within a few packs), with very good luck you have a chance to be part of this minority, but otherwise don't buy them unless you have nothing else to do with the gold..

      If you want a specific items out of these 'good stuff', then you are in for a really bad time due to inefficient market and trading.
      You're misunderstanding, I'm not thinking of me specifically. I'm thinking of for the playerbase as a whole. If the droprates are low and nobody wants to buy the packs, then there won't be any of these equipment for new players to use. Which makes the game overall worse by removing potential options. That's why these items shouldn't be so insanely rare... so that there are enough of the items out there that a new player who likes, say, berries, can faesibly obtain the berry themed stuff WITHOUT spending 100 bucks on a single piece of equipment.

      Since the items are never coming back, it is important that there be enough reason for people to want to buy them so that there are enough of the items IN EXISTENCE for a new player to obtain them should they desire without needing to spend their life savings on it. Obviously, there shouldn't be so many that the items have NO worth, but there should be enough that the items aren't nearly impossible to find.
      Gamer. Streamer. Photographer. Writer. Anime Lover. Possessor of Stuffed Animals.

      Also... I'm terrible at this game.
    • Eraia wrote:

      Arkansaw wrote:

      It will be rewarding to a minority of people (who get the good stuff within a few packs), with very good luck you have a chance to be part of this minority, but otherwise don't buy them unless you have nothing else to do with the gold..

      If you want a specific items out of these 'good stuff', then you are in for a really bad time due to inefficient market and trading.
      You're misunderstanding, I'm not thinking of me specifically. I'm thinking of for the playerbase as a whole. If the droprates are low and nobody wants to buy the packs, then there won't be any of these equipment for new players to use. Which makes the game overall worse by removing potential options. That's why these items shouldn't be so insanely rare... so that there are enough of the items out there that a new player who likes, say, berries, can faesibly obtain the berry themed stuff WITHOUT spending 100 bucks on a single piece of equipment.
      Since the items are never coming back, it is important that there be enough reason for people to want to buy them so that there are enough of the items IN EXISTENCE for a new player to obtain them should they desire without needing to spend their life savings on it. Obviously, there shouldn't be so many that the items have NO worth, but there should be enough that the items aren't nearly impossible to find.
      I wanted some of the PvE stuff from previous sets too, but after a while I realize they are not worth it since I don't see myself as a collector and will not allow myself to be subjected to the systemic disadvantage. New players are supposed to stick to stuff within their budget and not become fixated with trading collector items (a game they will lose unless they are simply playing the trading game).
      "Winning with terrormill is not fun? Try losing with it"
    • Arkansaw wrote:

      I wanted some of the PvE stuff from previous sets too, but after a while I realize they are not worth it since I don't see myself as a collector and will not allow myself to be subjected to the systemic disadvantage. New players are supposed to stick to stuff within their budget and not become fixated with trading collector items (a game they will lose unless they are simply playing the trading game).
      So basically: We should be happy that all these new items are doing ABSOLUTELY nothing for the game long-term? Because if the items aren't obtainable, they're essentially wasted development time

      Great idea.

      Or they can make the items slightly more obtainable and have them be something that people are willing to invest in.



      Also, you're talking extremes again. I'm not saying that new players are going to be deterred 'cause they can't get everything - that's inevitable. What I'm saying is that they're not going to be able to get ANY of this stuff because there won't be enough that anyone is willing to sell them long-term. A problem that can be easily fixed by a small adjustment to the droprates to both make people happier about BUYING these packs(thus increasing supply) and also making sure there are more of these items specifically overall. Additionally, this increases the value of some of the 'worthless' items by making them a tiny bit harder to get.

      Essentially, for every person who feels these packs are 'not worth it', the overall supply goes down, ensuring that adding these packs becomes less and less worth Hex's development time... and ensuring that the game as a whole benefits less and less from Kismet packs. If we're going to keep on this model, might as well do away wtih them entirely. I'd rather Hex spend the development time elsewhere if this is going to be how they go.
      Gamer. Streamer. Photographer. Writer. Anime Lover. Possessor of Stuffed Animals.

      Also... I'm terrible at this game.
    • Eraia wrote:

      Arkansaw wrote:

      I wanted some of the PvE stuff from previous sets too, but after a while I realize they are not worth it since I don't see myself as a collector and will not allow myself to be subjected to the systemic disadvantage. New players are supposed to stick to stuff within their budget and not become fixated with trading collector items (a game they will lose unless they are simply playing the trading game).
      So basically: We should be happy that all these new items are doing ABSOLUTELY nothing for the game long-term? Because if the items aren't obtainable, they're essentially wasted development time
      Great idea.

      Or they can make the items slightly more obtainable and have them be something that people are willing to invest in.



      Also, you're talking extremes again. I'm not saying that new players are going to be deterred 'cause they can't get everything - that's inevitable. What I'm saying is that they're not going to be able to get ANY of this stuff because there won't be enough that anyone is willing to sell them long-term. A problem that can be easily fixed by a small adjustment to the droprates to both make people happier about BUYING these packs(thus increasing supply) and also making sure there are more of these items specifically overall. Additionally, this increases the value of some of the 'worthless' items by making them a tiny bit harder to get.

      Essentially, for every person who feels these packs are 'not worth it', the overall supply goes down, ensuring that adding these packs becomes less and less worth Hex's development time... and ensuring that the game as a whole benefits less and less from Kismet packs. If we're going to keep on this model, might as well do away wtih them entirely. I'd rather Hex spend the development time elsewhere if this is going to be how they go.
      It is more about doing the math and seeing that trying to invest or get specific items with packs is a bad idea. Fortunately, these are also content that is not essential, so practically it is reduced to a gold sink and collectors market. I get your frustration, but I doubt these stuff take up a lot of development time and they are probably working as intended, as a lottery system that will feel bad to anyone who takes it too seriously. There will definitely be collectors who make sure they get everything...so they will play this game even if most people avoid it, you will be forced to deal/trade with these people if you want a part of it.
      "Winning with terrormill is not fun? Try losing with it"
    • Arkansaw wrote:

      It is more about doing the math and seeing that trying to invest or get specific items with packs is a bad idea. Fortunately, these are also content that is not essential, so practically it is reduced to a gold sink and collectors market. I get your frustration, but I doubt these stuff take up a lot of development time and they are probably working as intended, as a lottery system that will feel bad to anyone who takes it too seriously. There will definitely be collectors who make sure they get everything...so they will play this game even if most people avoid it, you will be forced to deal/trade with these people if you want a part of it.
      However.... it won't serve its purpose as a gold sink if people DON'T WANT TO SINK GOLD INTO IT.

      That's the point. If they make them satisfying to buy, people will spend a LOT MORE GOLD on them, making them a far more effective gold sink AND making them serve as long-term content that is relatively accessible.

      The 'newness' factor is starting to wear off and people are starting to get sick of them being what you just described. The more people who get sick of that, the fewer who will sink gold into it.
      Gamer. Streamer. Photographer. Writer. Anime Lover. Possessor of Stuffed Animals.

      Also... I'm terrible at this game.
    • Eraia wrote:

      Arkansaw wrote:

      It is more about doing the math and seeing that trying to invest or get specific items with packs is a bad idea. Fortunately, these are also content that is not essential, so practically it is reduced to a gold sink and collectors market. I get your frustration, but I doubt these stuff take up a lot of development time and they are probably working as intended, as a lottery system that will feel bad to anyone who takes it too seriously. There will definitely be collectors who make sure they get everything...so they will play this game even if most people avoid it, you will be forced to deal/trade with these people if you want a part of it.
      However.... it won't serve its purpose as a gold sink if people DON'T WANT TO SINK GOLD INTO IT.
      That's the point. If they make them satisfying to buy, people will spend a LOT MORE GOLD on them, making them a far more effective gold sink AND making them serve as long-term content that is relatively accessible.

      The 'newness' factor is starting to wear off and people are starting to get sick of them being what you just described. The more people who get sick of that, the fewer who will sink gold into it.
      People are still buying the packs...lots in fact judging by what is being put up in the AH. just because you don't like the system does not mean it is not working. sure, some people stop buying the kismet packs, but others start buying them. To a lot of people, the packs are plenty satisfying to buy. You always seem to think your opinion is shared by the majority of others, but it just isn't.

      I would actually like to see them change the packs a bit myself. I would like to see them double the price of the packs but give 3 total items. no change to the drop chance of anything. this gives us a little bit more for what we pay but mostly I like opening multiple items at once. That said, I don't assume this would be best for the game or even the players. I trust hex has the data they need to make these decisions and that they make the one that they believe is for the best.