Kismet Packs feel bad

    • Apart from a gold sink, Kismet packs exist just so that they can claim to do something for PvE, with minimal effort.

      Trading is decidedly bad to keep prices up and support the third party shops that help to advertise the game.
      "Winning with terrormill is not fun? Try losing with it"
    • Eraia wrote:

      VicMan wrote:

      Kismet pack feel good
      The hypocrisy in this post is hilarious.
      you call people out for saying kismet packs feel bad... because they're using their own feelings to judge that.

      But then you yourself do exactly the same thing at the end, use your own feelings to make the contradictory statement.


      VicMan wrote:

      "I'm so offended to not have what I want easily from kismet pack"
      Nobody wants it to be easy. What they're saying is that what it is now is beyond what people are willing to consider reasonable.
      nobody wants to just open one pack and get everything. But they want it to feel like they can get what they're after in what feels like a reasonable length of time for them. They WANT to work for it, but they want to work feeling like the end is attainable. There's a difference between 'I just wanna sit at home and have you give me money' and 'I'm willing to work, but you're not paying me enough for my work'. The complaint here is the latter.

      (Also, it takes me about ~4-5 hours to earn 15000 gold. So... 30 hours would be... 90k gold, not 1 million.)
      That is not hypocrisy, it's showing that is ridiculous.

      You just talk about feeling in your post and more over talking about feeling about other person you don't know.
      A piece of advice : don't do it in "real life" that will end badly.
      And you don't know what they want and how they feel so ...

      I don't talk about other feeling. I talk about the general impression that come about 7 pages in this thread when (like I say) a post on the trade forum will have easily solve "the problem"


      For the farming I take the number I see in this forum about bigspider, it's not made up. I think I personnaly need less than 2h to have 15000 golds (about one kismet pack per day If I want during the week and way more the weekend but even then it's at least 42 packs... )
    • VicMan wrote:

      A piece of advice : don't do it in "real life" that will end badly.
      A large part of a LOT of jobs is trying to figure out how other people feel. That's part of my real life. I have to understand how others feel so I can do what is needed. So I talk about 'how other people feel' in the real world ALL THE TIME. It actually is a mandatory part of my job and NOT talking about it would get me fired. So, I won't be taking your advice here, although I do appreciate the condescension in your tone.


      VicMan wrote:

      a post on the trade forum will have easily solve "the problem"
      Except... it won't. At all. The problem isn't 'I can't get this item'. It's that 'opening these packs is an unsatisfying experience and the underlying rarity curve of the items is promoting scarcity that is too extreme which creates prices that are discouraging players from playing.'

      Trade chat can't fix that.
      Gamer. Streamer. Photographer. Writer. Anime Lover. Possessor of Stuffed Animals.

      Also... I'm terrible at this game.
    • Eraia wrote:

      although I do appreciate the condescension in your tone.
      you are welcome


      Eraia wrote:

      I have to understand how others feel so I can do what is needed
      I don't know about this and I don't care
      Keep it to your job not here. You can't know what I feel right now just because of this word.
      And the post you make about other feeling show you like someone who think know all and can make general statement where it's not true (+ made up number)


      Eraia wrote:

      It's that 'opening these packs is an unsatisfying experience and the underlying rarity curve of the items is promoting scarcity that is too extreme which creates prices that are discouraging players from playing.'
      Everytime I open a pack I'm excited / frustated / full of joy but I know it's random and even if I'm disapointed by I open I'm ok with that OR I buy directly what I want (thanks to the trade chat).
      If that discourage people from playing, good then, we will have less negativ dude around and on top of that you talk about rarity without knowing the actual rarity of the item.
      Bring me actual number and we will discuss.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by VicMan ().

    • Arkansaw wrote:

      Apart from a gold sink, Kismet packs exist just so that they can claim to do something for PvE, with minimal effort.

      Trading is decidedly bad to keep prices up and support the third party shops that help to advertise the game.
      I fear you may be partially right about AH being deliberately bad but if so it's short-sighted and misguided.

      Bad AH only benefits the bot-snipers and exploiters.
    • VicMan wrote:

      If that discourage people from playing, good then, we will have less negativ dude around and on top of that you talk about rarity without knowing the actual rarity of the item.
      Bring me actual number and we will discuss.
      The estimates we have based off of data gathered from peoples' reported pack openings puts the droprate at approximately 2%(Hex hasn't revealed official numbers, so this is the closest we've got). So over the course of 50 packs, you'll have a 63% chance of getting it at least once.

      Yep... 63%. To break the 80% mark, you need 80 packs, if the 2% is accurate.

      I don't want to be rude here, but if everyone who ever expressed anything negative about Hex quit the game would die(because the majority of its playerbase has expressed criticism at least once). So perhaps you shouldn't write everyone who complains off as 'negativ dudes' and think the game would be better off without them. A lot of us are passionate about the game, we're just also willing to criticize them out of the love for the game and the dream of what it could be. If we didn't care, we'd simply stop posting entirely.

      As many large developers have been known to say: We're not afraid of passionate criticism, we're afraid of silence. For it is when people stop caring enough to criticize our decisions that we need to worry.
      Gamer. Streamer. Photographer. Writer. Anime Lover. Possessor of Stuffed Animals.

      Also... I'm terrible at this game.
    • Eraia wrote:

      VicMan wrote:

      If that discourage people from playing, good then, we will have less negativ dude around and on top of that you talk about rarity without knowing the actual rarity of the item.
      Bring me actual number and we will discuss.
      The estimates we have based off of data gathered from peoples' reported pack openings puts the droprate at approximately 2%(Hex hasn't revealed official numbers, so this is the closest we've got). So over the course of 50 packs, you'll have a 63% chance of getting it at least once.
      Yep... 63%. To break the 80% mark, you need 80 packs, if the 2% is accurate.
      You said someone should be able to get the items in 50 packs. I showed you that is the average number of packs you need to open to get 2 equips, and you just immediately moved the goalposts and said that the current drop rate is not high enough. It's not a CCG, don't pretend it is to make your argument seem better. At the launch of the Vampire set I sold a Guise and bought Fruit Punchers both for around the 1200-1500 they typically sell for. We have an AH that is far from ideal but still makes it possible to trade.

      I get that some people feel this equipment is too rare. That is a valid opinion. If they up the drop rate, there will still be people who think it's too rare. But you have also expressed the opinion that there need to be valuable PVE cards/items for PVE players to obtain. As I've pointed out in the past, you can't have it both ways.
    • Silvanos wrote:

      You said someone should be able to get the items in 50 packs. I showed you that is the average number of packs you need to open to get 2 equips, and you just immediately moved the goalposts and said that the current drop rate is not high enough.
      Uh... I did say someone should be able to get the items in 50 packs. And I still stand by that. At an average 2% droprate, statistically speaking, you will get an item only slightly more than half the time at 50 packs.

      Even at 80 packs you only have an 80% chance of getting at least one of a 2% droprate item.

      I don't see how I moved the goalposts at all.

      The droprate is not high enough. If you do the math, at a 2% droprate, with 50 packs, as I said in the post you quoted, you'll only have an ~63% chance to get one item. To be more precise, it's 63.58303.

      Please explain how I moved the goalposts?
      Gamer. Streamer. Photographer. Writer. Anime Lover. Possessor of Stuffed Animals.

      Also... I'm terrible at this game.
    • Just thinking about the dollar value of the gold I spent on my packs so far made my blood drain. When this thread first started, I thought they have a point, it's tedious to grind for but I really like vampires. What if I just dropped twenty bucks and opened 20 bucks worth of kismet packs, I'd surely have enough to get everything out of it and be happy. Then I calculated that that's like only 28 packs (oh shit) and that I had already bought 40 (oh shitter) and that I could have bought the rest of my A grade PvP deck for what I had spent on packs so far and still not gotten either legendary equipment or a playset of royal bloodlines (oh shittest). When taking the market into account, and the platinum value of gold, versus what you get, man is it the shittiest, least worthwhile gold sink around. Spinning chests gives you the same high dollar chase cards, plus chances for stardust, more gold, PvE and PvP rares, packs, and....everything. The more I think about it the more horrified I am that I bought those packs.
    • Eraia wrote:

      Silvanos wrote:

      You said someone should be able to get the items in 50 packs. I showed you that is the average number of packs you need to open to get 2 equips, and you just immediately moved the goalposts and said that the current drop rate is not high enough.
      Uh... I did say someone should be able to get the items in 50 packs. And I still stand by that. At an average 2% droprate, statistically speaking, you will get an item only slightly more than half the time at 50 packs.
      Even at 80 packs you only have an 80% chance of getting at least one of a 2% droprate item.

      I don't see how I moved the goalposts at all.

      The droprate is not high enough. If you do the math, at a 2% droprate, with 50 packs, as I said in the post you quoted, you'll only have an ~63% chance to get one item. To be more precise, it's 63.58303.

      Please explain how I moved the goalposts?
      I see, so you think the system should work as if there is no trading, even though there is. You must be totally beside yourself at how many packs someone has to open to get a playset of any legendary PVP card then. It's completely unreasonable that they expect someone to spend $2000 to get (95% confidence level) a playset of Timophy the Turtle.

      And again, they put in the valuable PVE items you asked for, why are you complaining they are too valuable?
    • The Question now Ultimately comes down to the following:

      Is it Mercy or Cruelty lowering the difficulty of anything.

      Those who progress through difficult things, are rewarded and strengthened through and by their determination.

      Those who achieve that something while knowing the same achievement was nerved, for them to gain.
      Well will always know that this has been adjusted for them.
      While the reward one may seek through this, may give temporary satisfaction.
      I question if this does not cause unconscious bitterness.

      One choice requires more sacrifice, the other less.
      So one gives more strength in which ever way you chose to strive for it.
      The other imparts fragility, what happens when the next hard situation appears around the corner.


      Monthieu wrote:

      Just thinking about the dollar value of the gold I spent on my packs so far made my blood drain. When this thread first started, I thought they have a point, it's tedious to grind for but I really like vampires. What if I just dropped twenty bucks and opened 20 bucks worth of kismet packs, I'd surely have enough to get everything out of it and be happy. Then I calculated that that's like only 28 packs (oh shit) and that I had already bought 40 (oh shitter) and that I could have bought the rest of my A grade PvP deck for what I had spent on packs so far and still not gotten either legendary equipment or a playset of royal bloodlines (oh shittest). When taking the market into account, and the platinum value of gold, versus what you get, man is it the shittiest, least worthwhile gold sink around. Spinning chests gives you the same high dollar chase cards, plus chances for stardust, more gold, PvE and PvP rares, packs, and....everything. The more I think about it the more horrified I am that I bought those packs.


      First you gave this an x amount of value.
      But through the discussion the value changed for you.
      If it is your choice, then that is fine :)

      But it's like fine wines and cheap wines.
      If you like the $300 wine, you like the $300 wine for your own personal reason.
      Yes you could by 300 cheap wines for $1.
      But will they give you the same satisfaction?

      Maybe both the vampires and the pvp have their own unique value.
      Does not have to be, because other people have different opinions.
      It should have any less value to what you are giving it.

      Just saying :)
    • Silvanos wrote:

      I see, so you think the system should work as if there is no trading, even though there is. You must be totally beside yourself at how many packs someone has to open to get a playset of any legendary PVP card then. It's completely unreasonable that they expect someone to spend $2000 to get (95% confidence level) a playset of Timophy the Turtle.

      And again, they put in the valuable PVE items you asked for, why are you complaining they are too valuable?
      If PvP cards were ONLY available for 3-4 months, then yes, I would be pissed off about that. And if PvP packs COULDN'T be used for anything other than just opening them, then yep, it'd be a problem. However, PVP packs are used for limited events, and are available for ~16 months. Thus giving people ample time to collect and opportunity to use those packs to DO SOMETHING WITH. The scale and scope are different. By making these kismet packs so limited in duration and the items in them so rare, it makes it unlikely that most people will ever see the item... and thus even more unlikely that new players afterwards will ever have the opportunity to get them.

      Edit: Also, packs have generally 15-20 options of value so even if you don't see the most valuable item, there are enough valuable options that are all nearly equally likely to be seen that it makes up for it. For example, I only ever saw one boltwing phoenix... but I got 7 Lord Blightbarks. So I could have, had I chosen, traded 3 blightbarks for 3 phoenixes. I didn't, 'cause I wanted the plat to keep getting more packs, but I could have. With the Kismet packs... there's nothing anywhere CLOSE in value to the rarest item, so there's nothing else for you to get an extra of to trade.

      As to your last line there....

      If I ask you for ice cream... and you bury my entire house in ice cream... should I be happy that you gave me ice cream?

      There's a point where 'value' becomes 'excessive rarity'. When you hit that point, it's not a good thing.

      We need things in the 500-2000 plat range for PvE. There're a few, we need more.

      We don't need things in the 4000-8000 plat range. That's the type of thing that simply scares people off.
      Gamer. Streamer. Photographer. Writer. Anime Lover. Possessor of Stuffed Animals.

      Also... I'm terrible at this game.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Eraia ().

    • Eraia wrote:

      Silvanos wrote:

      I see, so you think the system should work as if there is no trading, even though there is. You must be totally beside yourself at how many packs someone has to open to get a playset of any legendary PVP card then. It's completely unreasonable that they expect someone to spend $2000 to get (95% confidence level) a playset of Timophy the Turtle.

      And again, they put in the valuable PVE items you asked for, why are you complaining they are too valuable?
      We need things in the 500-2000 plat range for PvE. There're a few, we need more.

      We don't need things in the 4000-8000 plat range. That's the type of thing that simply scares people off.
      These equipment sell for about 1200-1500 plat, right in the middle of the range you are saying we need more of.
    • Silvanos wrote:

      These equipment sell for about 1200-1500 plat, right in the middle of the range you are saying we need more of.
      While the supply is current they do. Once the supply is not current, unless the cards are really awful, they won't. Look at chest of the oni order, raven's more, crib.

      The berry cards were weak(except the merc who is awesome). Many people considered them all borderline unplayable, so it's a miracle the equipment for them sells at all... and even for THAT pack the legendary equipment last sold at 3500~.
      Gamer. Streamer. Photographer. Writer. Anime Lover. Possessor of Stuffed Animals.

      Also... I'm terrible at this game.
    • Eraia wrote:

      Silvanos wrote:

      These equipment sell for about 1200-1500 plat, right in the middle of the range you are saying we need more of.
      While the supply is current they do. Once the supply is not current, unless the cards are really awful, they won't. Look at chest of the oni order, raven's more, crib.
      The berry cards were weak(except the merc who is awesome). Many people considered them all borderline unplayable, so it's a miracle the equipment for them sells at all... and even for THAT pack the legendary equipment last sold at 3500~.
      The cherry picked statistics really make this a compelling argument. Fruit Punchers have sold for over 2k exactly twice, ever (as far as HexPrice knows), and one of them happened to be the most recent sale. The other legendary from that pack routinely sells for less than 1000p. Curiously, you omitted that one from your analysis.

      Stormcoat is probably the rarest equipment in the entire game. It's not amazing powerful but it's certainly good, and it last sold for only 2500p, with other recent sales below 1000p. I was actually very surprised at how cheap this equipment has gotten, I expect it to be the standard for what these might sell for one day.

      Here are the other most recent sales of the Kismet Pack legendaries, since you conveniently picked the second most expensive one and ignored all the rest. Many of these can be had for even lower prices if you look back at the most recent 5 sales.
      Raven's More 5000p (this has sold as high as 7500p recently, and seems to be a legitimately expensive piece of gear)
      Royal Crib 2500p
      Blade of Sekki 1900
      Chest of the Oni Order 2600p
      Marmaladers 800p
      Fruit Punchers 3600p
      Blood Soaked Tiara 539p
      Captivating Guise 2600p

      In general, much closer to the 500-2000p range you are asking for than the 4000-8000 range you say will hurt the game.

      Honestly, I don't really care what these packs cost, or what the rarity is. They are a gold sink that holds up the value of gold, and I don't farm gold so I don't really care how much it's worth. It seems to be good for the game to keep the value of gold from completely tanking, which is something these chase items help do. I've just been holding out this irrational hope that one day you'll understand that you can't have PVE-acquired items that are simultaneously valuable, powerful, and high drop-rate.
    • Convocation packs (which were replaced by kismet packs) felt so much better. You got them naturally by farming FRA/dungeons, and even though they still had that super rare legendary equipment, it didn't feel like such a chore to grind the gold for them. I wish they brought that model back.