Kismet Packs feel bad

    • omoreindakitchen wrote:

      How do you know, what the norm is?
      Well that is the problem: we don't even know if the distribution changed between sets! (poppycake peddler v walking boneyard -prices and my collection- as well as the Elcerberry Merc make me think they probably did)

      I could be wrong but I've discussed this with others and watched a streamer spend 1million gold opening only 1 legendary equip (>60 packs).
      The prices on these items is also a strong indicator of the frequency.

      It's not just about the number of packs needed either: pushing all the price into the legendary equips is what makes opening anything else feel bad.

      I just checked and actually some AAs and the Mercs seem to be off the plat-floor so it's not quite as bad as I thought (though 100p plat floor for items from a 15kgp pack is a whole different issue).
    • Eraia wrote:

      Pandaemonium wrote:

      Maybe an unliked option but the only other way I see it still being a gold sink is if you make the cost of the pack being 75,000 or something and having an even chance of getting all contents. Maybe get rid of trash uncommon cards.
      I think lowering the cost was the best thing they did, honestly. I doubt I'd buy even one at 75000, regardless of rarity distribution. I would just get tired of saving long before I hit that mark and go spin chests in stead. At 15000 it's pretty feasibly to earn one in an average day's farming if I so choose. That's a good pricepoint, at least from my perspective.

      They just need to adjust the rarity a bit so that the items feel attainable. ie. If a person buys, say, 50 packs, they should feasibly expect to get all the items(with the occasional bad luck meaning you don't, or good luck meaning you get multiples). 50 packs is still an individual investment of 750 thousand gold. That's a lot of gold. But by having it be relatively reliable to get the items, it also means that there is a decent chance that some people will have EXTRAS which means there will be some available, albeit for a moderately expensive price, to buy on the AH. As it is now, we've already - less than a year later - reached the point where the equipment from the first two packs are prettymuch non-existent on the AH, and on the rare occasion they is seen they are listed for so much that they're not really likely to sell.
      Buying 50 packs will (on average) get you a playset of every PVE item. The drop rates from these packs is basically set up exactly how you just said it "should be". There is an existing thread (Calculating Drop Rates of Kismet Oni Packs) that tracked the distributions from the first 2 packs and found that the Legendary equipment drops at around 2% each.

      Timlagor wrote:

      One more try to put this in your terms:
      These items have a significant "value".
      That value is much lower than the *price*
      This is because of a totally arbitrary and unnecessary scarcity.
      Earning a few more $ (enough to buy them) would not in any way rectify this.
      The only way earning more money could affect this would be to make all the prices in Hex too small in comparison to matter at all.
      This is annoying because there is a value that is being waved at me that I can't have due to this arbitrary price.
      I don't understand why you think the value of an item in a freely traded market like Hex is different from its price. It's value *to you* might be less than its price, but clearly other people value it at its current price, or there would be many of them available for you to buy. Brides are valuable because they are powerful and in limited supply ("a totally arbitrary and unnecessary scarcity").

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Silvanos ().

    • Gregangel wrote:

      Eraia wrote:

      I've bought between 50 and 100 of the past two packs, and not gotten all the items. Last time I persisted a bit longer because I wanted the merc... but this time I've given up at about 55-60.
      it is quit irrational to spend 4 500 plat or $45 in Kismet Packs when their content worth less.
      And btw, $45 is more than I need to give to Hex every 4 months to be able to play the game without any restriction...

      Completly insane where I stand.
      I don't spend money on it. I spend time. I farm gold, buy the packs.

      Wolzarg wrote:

      You have two options with these things either most of the value is in the rarest few items or the items have no value what so ever.
      Of course most of the value is going to be in the rarer items... but that doesn't mean the rarer items have to be 0.0000000001% drop. Sure they could bump the value if they dropped the droprate further. But that doesn't mean it's a good idea.

      If they raise the droprate a bit, the value immediately will be lower, but - should the population grow, which is what we all hope happens - they will still have value long-term. But they won't be completely inaccessible to new players.

      At this point in time, a new player will probably never see a Raven's More or Crib. They might have a chance to pay 60 bucks for one on the AH. That's not a good thing.

      People should have enough items that there are some to be sold. If the items are so rare that there aren't any 'spares' then these items will simply inflate to the point that they never sell. I would much rather have two of these things and have them be worth, say, 750 plat each.... then have 1 worth 5k plat.
      Gamer. Streamer. Photographer. Writer. Anime Lover. Possessor of Stuffed Animals.

      Also... I'm terrible at this game.
    • Silvanos wrote:

      Buying 50 packs will (on average) get you a playset of every PVE item. The drop rates from these packs is basically set up exactly how you just said it "should be". There is an existing thread (Calculating Drop Rates of Kismet Oni Packs) that tracked the distributions from the first 2 packs and found that the Legendary equipment drops at around 2% each.

      Timlagor wrote:

      One more try to put this in your terms:These items have a significant "value".
      That value is much lower than the *price*
      This is because of a totally arbitrary and unnecessary scarcity.
      Earning a few more $ (enough to buy them) would not in any way rectify this.
      The only way earning more money could affect this would be to make all the prices in Hex too small in comparison to matter at all.
      This is annoying because there is a value that is being waved at me that I can't have due to this arbitrary price.
      I don't understand why you think the value of an item in a freely traded market like Hex is different from its price. It's value *to you* might be less than its price, but clearly other people value it at its current price, or there would be many of them available for you to buy. Brides are valuable because they are powerful and in limited supply ("a totally arbitrary and unnecessary scarcity").
      1) So 2% drop rates means roughly a 50% chance you won't have a playset? (i worked this out earlier and iirc it was actually about 50% for each making it rather worse than 50% for both)

      2) I suggest you read the discussion on "value" then because it was clear that we were discussing the value to me and not the price on the market which I was not willing to pay.
      You would also discover that I expressly mentioned that the market in these is not even close to what you imply by "freely traded market"
    • I'm not arguing either way, as I already shared my preference in the beginning of the thread.


      Eraia wrote:

      If they raise the droprate a bit, the value immediately will be lower, but - should the population grow, which is what we all hope happens - they will still have value long-term. But they won't be completely inaccessible to new players.

      Eraia wrote:

      People should have enough items that there are some to be sold. If the items are so rare that there aren't any 'spares' then these items will simply inflate to the point that they never sell. I would much rather have two of these things and have them be worth, say, 750 plat each.... then have 1 worth 5k plat.
      First of all, I agree with your arguments. However, I do see some issues.

      1. Population Growth

      Given what HEX has currently said and the resulting outlook for PVE in the mid-term, I just do not see a big PVE player growth. Maybe there will be some small organic growth (which also might be offset by leaving players) here and there. But without new proper content and the focus on tablet and PVP which many also vocalise, I just dont see a proper growth in the PVE segment. I personally feel there is a lot of potential for growth. But with the current outlook that is known to us, it just does not give me the impression that it will happen.

      2. Inflation

      Yes you are completely right that these items are inflated. Im probably gonna repeat myself for the 10th time lol. I think a lot of the inflation here has to do with the AH. Im not saying that the chase items that already rotated would be cheap and under 1k plat with a proper AH (the current packs might be though). However, given that they sell so rarely many people probably do not list their copies. So the AH only has 1-2 items most of the time (if at all). If the AH would be efficient and you could list for long time, the natural supply and demand would reduce the price automatically. But with 48 hours, theres just 1-2 at most and even if there are more that would give a bit downwards pressure, after the listings run out the price simply resets itself. Id be interested to see how the price of the crib and the chest would be with a more efficient AH. I strongly believe it would go down significantly. (PLEASE HEX FIX THE AH!)
    • I'm fairly certain that the best way to make kismet packs more attractive and the equips less pricy is to spread the value around. If there was a AA rare and AA uncommon like idk of the top of my head exalted pathfinder and palm of granite those would take some load of the equips and stimulate buying meaning that there is more supply as well.
    • Correction: at 750kgp I probably would give these sets a pass. I have been spending that much -and one problem is that after you buy 50 packs and don't get the one item you are no more likely to get it than when you started- but I can at least recoup some of that at some point by selling the stuff -I still dream the AH will be good at some point but eventually I'd probably sell stuff anyway.
    • arub wrote:

      1. Population Growth

      Given what HEX has currently said and the resulting outlook for PVE in the mid-term, I just do not see a big PVE player growth. Maybe there will be some small organic growth (which also might be offset by leaving players) here and there. But without new proper content and the focus on tablet and PVP which many also vocalise, I just dont see a proper growth in the PVE segment. I personally feel there is a lot of potential for growth. But with the current outlook that is known to us, it just does not give me the impression that it will happen.
      To be honest, I'm inclined to agree... but designing your game with the assumption you'll stagnate at your current player count becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy ;)


      arub wrote:

      2. Inflation

      Yes you are completely right that these items are inflated. Im probably gonna repeat myself for the 10th time lol. I think a lot of the inflation here has to do with the AH. Im not saying that the chase items that already rotated would be cheap and under 1k plat with a proper AH (the current packs might be though). However, given that they sell so rarely many people probably do not list their copies. So the AH only has 1-2 items most of the time (if at all). If the AH would be efficient and you could list for long time, the natural supply and demand would reduce the price automatically. But with 48 hours, theres just 1-2 at most and even if there are more that would give a bit downwards pressure, after the listings run out the price simply resets itself. Id be interested to see how the price of the crib and the chest would be with a more efficient AH. I strongly believe it would go down significantly. (PLEASE HEX FIX THE AH!)
      I don't know if the crib/more would be affected... but I agree that it would affect a lot of other cards. But, at the same time, it would also lower the value of the 'common' items, so I dunno if that'd really help much overall.

      That being said though, this game NEEDS a functional AH, desperately. Regardless of impact on Kismet Packs.
      Gamer. Streamer. Photographer. Writer. Anime Lover. Possessor of Stuffed Animals.

      Also... I'm terrible at this game.
    • didnt they say that they wanted legendary equipment to be very rare and difficult to get? didnt they say that they felt they would likely be some the most valuable things in the game?

      It seems to me that they have succeeded at their goals with the Kismet packs. Overall, this is something I am very happy about. Sure I get annoyed when I don't get what I want from the packs but when I get a rare piece of equipment I love it all the more.
    • It gets harder for sure as the overall PvE population declines. I used to buy a few packs with spare gold but that stopped once I stopped playing actively. At 2% it requires several hundred packs to have realistic chances of getting one, so as whole this mechanism exists as a gold sink rather than a way for people to collect everything.
      "Winning with terrormill is not fun? Try losing with it"
    • Arkansaw wrote:

      It gets harder for sure as the overall PvE population declines. I used to buy a few packs with spare gold but that stopped once I stopped playing actively. At 2% it requires several hundred packs to have realistic chances of getting one, so as whole this mechanism exists as a gold sink rather than a way for people to collect everything.
      This is literally every game ever you have to putt considerable resources into it if you want everything. Sometimes it is time sometimes it is money in this case you can pick one or the other or a combination of both. How is this so hard to grasp for people is the fact that it is pve which is "free to play" that is twisting peoples minds up about these?

      I'm 10x more annoyed at the wheel pve cards and i don't see how you can not be if the scarcity and rarity of pve items are upsetting you.
    • no it's the fact that the prices for desirable generated by the mechanics they have put in place greatly exceed the desirability ..while these items are simultaneously hard to sell which is quite the trick

      Also the consequent disappointment in every other outcome even when those contents are priced above the cost of the pack.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Timlagor ().

    • Arkansaw wrote:

      It gets harder for sure as the overall PvE population declines. I used to buy a few packs with spare gold but that stopped once I stopped playing actively. At 2% it requires several hundred packs to have realistic chances of getting one, so as whole this mechanism exists as a gold sink rather than a way for people to collect everything.
      Actually at 2% you will on average get one in 50 packs... but this translates to only about a 40%* chance of actually getting them then but also a 40%* chance each of having 2 of one, with a 64%* chance of having at least one of the more valuable one.
      Beyond that how many packs you have to buy depends on how high you want your confidence to be.

      That may seem ok but it's also >$30 worth of gold and doubling it doesn't even get you to 90% confidence of having the one equip.


      * X=1-(0.98^50)% and X^2% ...someone confirm I'm not blowing smoke?
    • I for one like kismet packs at least then dont cost 30000 gp now.
      HEX need a gold sink - if you want a full set just go buy 2-3 M gold from bankerbot just 100-140$ in plat.

      AH in HEX sucks - I really dont understand why they newer fixed it.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Opalia ().

    • Timlagor wrote:

      Actually at 2% you will on average get one in 50 packs... but this translates to only about a 40%* chance of actually getting them then but also a 40%* chance each of having 2 of one, with a 64%* chance of having at least one of the more valuable one.Beyond that how many packs you have to buy depends on how high you want your confidence to be.

      That may seem ok but it's also >$30 worth of gold and doubling it doesn't even get you to 90% confidence of having the one equip.


      * X=1-(0.98^50)% and X^2% ...someone confirm I'm not blowing smoke?
      Using your method, you still need about 150 packs for 95% confidence. With a 5% chance of all junk after 150 packs.

      Wolzarg wrote:

      This is literally every game ever you have to putt considerable resources into it if you want everything. Sometimes it is time sometimes it is money in this case you can pick one or the other or a combination of both. How is this so hard to grasp for people is the fact that it is pve which is "free to play" that is twisting peoples minds up about these?
      I'm 10x more annoyed at the wheel pve cards and i don't see how you can not be if the scarcity and rarity of pve items are upsetting you.

      As far as PvE spending goes, I agree none of the "rare" cards are worth their going rate in AH. There is a huge gap between investing spare gold in a few packs and farming/buying enough gold to open 100+ packs just to get one card. Most of my gold went to spinning up-to-rare chests, so far the returns are much better than kismet, since I am not after a specific card.
      "Winning with terrormill is not fun? Try losing with it"
    • Once again Value is in the eyes of the Beholder.

      While some may take my words as "Discussing only their personal value to them"

      I was trying to show that this topic is very subjective to everyone.

      For example, Some cards in other games are worth $12.000 Dollars.
      Some Coins people collect are worth $10,016,875.

      Something which new collectors will likely never get and never see.
      Something some would consider:

      Silvanos wrote:

      a totally arbitrary and unnecessary scarcity

      Yet people want it, people pay for it, work for it, gets loans for it.
      How can anything have such value.
      Because of it's rarity and scarcity.

      Let put it in words maybe some men can understand.
      Why do men fight and go after the pretty girls more?
      Because they are less and more wanted.

      It is why we do not have any issues with getting attention.
      Look at Lixil, she grovey, pretty , smart and funny.
      People are attracted to her. Want to be near her, be it just friends.

      ( Pardon me for using Lady Hex in this example, It's trying to make something clear )

      Same as it with anything else of value.
      Don't get me started on this is not relevant, because men have gone to war for this.

      Let me be more clear:
      This comes down to subjectivity, of how valuable do you think it is to you.
      Just like other rare items of anything else.

      Say you are interested in a girl/ Lady / guy / furry / whatever floats your boat. ( ugh )

      You going to be like: Well I would like to have you, go out with you enz.
      However I don't think its worth it to go to that fancy restaurant you wanted to meet at.
      No I would rather have some fries at some cheap place.

      And then expect the same outcome in reward.. Oo

      same with the items, value is personal.
      I am very sorry for me it is still sounding like:

      I am not getting my way, I find it to hard, make it easier now.
      I am right and my opinion counts because I say so.

      This is the Price that it is worth, because I say so

      Other person: Maybe for me , its okey? maybe for me it is different?

      No It is as I say it is.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Adaline: Value correction, Pardon added ().

    • Timlagor wrote:

      @Adaline: the supply of the items we are talking about is controlled by the click of a button. Things that are not so easily supplied are not relevant comparisons
      There are millions of stones, you can find one almost anywhere.

      But for those few people that see value in it, it has value.

      So a click of a button has nothing to do with it.
      Rare Items in a game, are rare for a reason.

      Value has value because it is of scarcity.
      This applies to everything in life.

      You just open your mouth and with a single word you say I love you to someone.
      Does not mean because you can just open your mouth and speak it has any less value.