Kismet Packs feel bad

    • Timlagor wrote:

      We haven't had enough time for there to be many people who want sleeves and weren't around to get them when they were easy. The extreme rarity does indeed make the equips significant but the low chance makes them again a small proportion of the pack value.

      There is value in the pack because it costs a significant chunk of gold to buy in the first place. Rarity is not adding value to the pack just moving it around between the contents. Quality of effect can affect value of course especially once they go 'out of print'.
      1.

      Yes your right, the sleeve is a factor and I did not deny that. As I said the legendary equip is part of what drives the value. The way you wrote it made it seem that you believe it is the only factor, which is why I said it isnt. :)

      Furthermore, the low chance still makes them a significant part of the EV. For instance:

      - Based on the gathered community statistics (I know its not statistical signficant enough to draw a a valid conclusion but it does give some indication)

      Suppose both legendary equips have a drop chance of ~2% and lets say they both would sell for around 2,000p atm (which is reasonable and not too much more than while they were in the store). In 100 packs you would statistically get 4 equips which would have a value of 8,000p. 8,000p / 100 = 80p.
      The two equipment would essentially already resemble 80p of the EV of an pack. I would say that it is quite a significant part of the value.


      2.

      When it comes to the value, in the end the deciding factor is supply and demand. Many factors, such as the price of the pack that you mentioned, simply affect the supply and demand.

      While rarity can shift the value around during the time that they are in the store, it does not after they rotate out. And while they are in the store, the value can only shift around when there are enough valuable things where a decrease of the drop rate of other content actually increases the value of the item.
      Right now, from what I observed, besides the legendary equipment in the Oni pack the supply out weight the demand so strongly that basically most cards were sold at or close to price floor with many listings. In order to create value for these cards, the drop rate would need to be significantly reduced to the point where people complain again about too many uncommon equips etc. Otherwise, in my personal opinion I do not think the value of the pack would shift. Instead I believe that the supply of legendary equips would simply increase and the overall value decrease.


      Overall, I think its a good thing that they are rare and chase items with high value. They already reduced the buying price which greatly reduced the costs to get the set. They should keep the rarity and have parts of them valuable as an incentive to buy or farm them.
    • Dylan wrote:

      Pandaemonium wrote:

      I think there is a valid argument that everything but the legendary equipment and merc are worthless for the pve player. I really wouldnt mind if they increased the drop rate of the leg. equipment myself.
      To be fair, the PVE player needs a playset of the cards in order for the equipment to have worth. But the drop rates of cards vs legendary equipment is very skewed such that there will be many, many more playsets of cards than there will be of legendary equipment for each of the cards. And that seems kinda whack to me.
      It makes perfect sense to me the equipment is useless without the cards but the cards might still have use without the equipment. Meaning you should make the distribution so it averages at least 4 pve card per equipment if not more. By making it so you get 8 of the pve card before you get the equip it means that someone who only wants the card can get that as there will be spares. The equipments are so clearly chase and so rarely needed even if they tend to be cool that i don't see a big issue.
    • Wolzarg wrote:

      . If you buy 3 packs you are likely to get 1 cool thing
      Except right now... you're not.

      If you buy 3 packs right now, the majority of the time you'll get 0 cool things.

      That's the problem. The droprates of the cool things are so low that you have to buy a ton of packs to get any of them. I usually buy my packs in 3s, and the majority of my sets of 3 packs have had precisely 0 cool things. Over time I've bought enough to get what I want... but the fact of the matter is that the droprate of all the 'cool things' are so low that if you only buy a few packs you're unlikely to get ANY cool things.
      Gamer. Streamer. Photographer. Writer. Anime Lover. Possessor of Stuffed Animals.

      Also... I'm terrible at this game.
    • arub wrote:

      Yes your right, the sleeve is a factor and I did not deny that. As I said the legendary equip is part of what drives the value. The way you wrote it made it seem that you believe it is the only factor, which is why I said it isnt. :)

      Furthermore, the low chance still makes them a significant part of the EV. For instance:

      - Based on the gathered community statistics (I know its not statistical signficant enough to draw a a valid conclusion but it does give some indication)

      Suppose both legendary equips have a drop chance of ~2% and lets say they both would sell for around 2,000p atm (which is reasonable and not too much more than while they were in the store). In 100 packs you would statistically get 4 equips which would have a value of 8,000p. 8,000p / 100 = 80p.
      The two equipment would essentially already resemble 80p of the EV of an pack. I would say that it is quite a significant part of the value.
      EDIT: I can't do maths

      Equips aren't driving the value they are sucking the value away from everything else because people who want them open so many of everything else. Those other things are still selling occasionally at significant prices but that's mostly because the AH sucks as a market mechanism and people don't realise how big the supply is or don't care about that amount of plat enough to go looking for the right price.

      They are a significant part of the value of the pack but being rare isn't making the pack more valuable. You really think these things should cost a) $20 or b) more than any PVP card?


      Rarity isn't an incentive to buy them once we give up on the whole business and if I'm considering doing that then you can be sure a whole load of people already have.



      As to distribution of contents not affecting value once the packs 'rotate'.. I don't see how you could even get to that idea let alone post it.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Timlagor ().

    • Timlagor wrote:

      arub wrote:

      Yes your right, the sleeve is a factor and I did not deny that. As I said the legendary equip is part of what drives the value. The way you wrote it made it seem that you believe it is the only factor, which is why I said it isnt. :)

      Furthermore, the low chance still makes them a significant part of the EV. For instance:

      - Based on the gathered community statistics (I know its not statistical signficant enough to draw a a valid conclusion but it does give some indication)

      Suppose both legendary equips have a drop chance of ~2% and lets say they both would sell for around 2,000p atm (which is reasonable and not too much more than while they were in the store). In 100 packs you would statistically get 4 equips which would have a value of 8,000p. 8,000p / 100 = 80p.
      The two equipment would essentially already resemble 80p of the EV of an pack. I would say that it is quite a significant part of the value.
      Artefaction spent a million gold (~666 packs) and got 1 L equip total -that's highly unlikely to be 2%.Given the ones I've opened as well, I'd be surprised if they were more than 1% and not at all surprised if they were 0.5% each or less.

      Equips aren't driving the value they are sucking the value away from everything else because people who want them open so many of everything else. Those other things are still selling occasionally at significant prices but that's mostly because the AH sucks as a market mechanism and people don't realise how big the supply is or don't care about that amount of plat enough to go looking for the right price.

      They are a significant part of the value of the pack but being rare isn't making the pack more valuable.

      Rarity isn't an incentive to buy them once we give up on the whole business and if I'm considering doing that then you can be sure a whole load of people already have.


      As to distribution of contents not affecting value once the packs 'rotate'.. I don't see how you could even get to that idea.
      Wait wait wait I want kismet packs too which cost only 1,5 k gold o.o
    • Fred wrote:

      Dylan wrote:

      "New pack with new cool things. . . too bad I won't be able to get the new cool things."

      You're saying that's what we should be doing? Seems feel bad to me.
      How about "Ooohhh, new PvE content. Let's see if Kismet is kind to me today... ... ... nope... ... still not... ... aw well, I tried. I'll just go back to enjoying the 300 other ways I can play PvE and enjoy the content is so many different ways."
      Sure, the legendary piece of equipment enables one deck. And while that one deck might (or might not) be cool to play with, how much time will you honestly spend playing it over the course of the next few years? Something else will come along and will be equally fun. Kismet's Reserve packs rotate so fast that by the time one has all the pieces from it, he can play with it for a couple of weeks at most until the next packs come along, and then they repeat the process. Not being able to play this one deck for a couple of weeks until you try your luck again at the next set Kismet brings is not going to ruin the game for you.
      it's not going to ruin the game for me.
      It is going to make me stop buying the packs
    • Timlagor wrote:

      Fred wrote:

      Dylan wrote:

      "New pack with new cool things. . . too bad I won't be able to get the new cool things."

      You're saying that's what we should be doing? Seems feel bad to me.
      How about "Ooohhh, new PvE content. Let's see if Kismet is kind to me today... ... ... nope... ... still not... ... aw well, I tried. I'll just go back to enjoying the 300 other ways I can play PvE and enjoy the content is so many different ways."Sure, the legendary piece of equipment enables one deck. And while that one deck might (or might not) be cool to play with, how much time will you honestly spend playing it over the course of the next few years? Something else will come along and will be equally fun. Kismet's Reserve packs rotate so fast that by the time one has all the pieces from it, he can play with it for a couple of weeks at most until the next packs come along, and then they repeat the process. Not being able to play this one deck for a couple of weeks until you try your luck again at the next set Kismet brings is not going to ruin the game for you.
      it's not going to ruin the game for me.It is going to make me stop buying the packs
      Which is the best way to vote in this matters because if enough people do something needs to change.
    • Timlagor wrote:

      Equips aren't driving the value they are sucking the value away from everything else because people who want them open so many of everything else. Those other things are still selling occasionally at significant prices but that's mostly because the AH sucks as a market mechanism and people don't realise how big the supply is or don't care about that amount of plat enough to go looking for the right price.
      Well its no secret that the current AH sucks. They already said that some changes are planned. But until we know what will change, the current AH is all we can go on.

      Given the current AH system, pack prices and legendary droprates, I just do not think that they are sucking the value away. As I said before, if they increase the drop rate of the legendary items and decrease other drop rates, I do not think that the value of the other items would change. I just do not see there being enough demand right now. I feel most of the cards in the pack that are at the price floor are already completely overvalued due to the AH system with the pricefloor.
      On the other hand, if they would change the distribution and at the same time either increase the pack price or significantly reduce the drop rates of the other useful cards, I do feel that the value would redistribute.

      Timlagor wrote:

      They are a significant part of the value of the pack but being rare isn't making the pack more valuable. You really think these things should cost a) $20 or b) more than any PVP card?

      Not sure why you are comparing PVP with PVE items. Doesn't seem like a reasonable comparison to me. If somethings exclusive or a rare and chase item why shouldn't it be valuable?

      Furthermore, the value of a pack actually is directly related to the value of its content and is therefore also affected by rarity as items that are rare enough and have a demand that is higher then its supply will become valuable due to the supply/demand.
      The price of the pack merely provides a value ceiling (at least in an efficient market) while they are in rotation and does not reflect its actual value. So I do believe rarity of certain chase item can make the packs more valuable.

      Timlagor wrote:

      As to distribution of contents not affecting value once the packs 'rotate'.. I don't see how you could even get to that idea let alone post it.

      Lol. Yeah not sure what I was thinking when writing that sentence. Guess I got a bit confused while writing. Of course distribution changes affects the value after rotation as it affects the overall supply. No need to be so condescending though :)


      And btw just because I prefer the current distribution, does not mean that I do not respect your opinion. Quite the opposite. I get your opinion on why you feel the rarity distribution needs to be changed. And seeing it from your perspective, I can also understand it. But thats just it. It is your perspective. I prefer it the other way.

      The post was edited 4 times, last by arub ().

    • I don't necessarily mind the equipment being rare... but I do wish the merc was far more common.

      That being said, I think the droprates should be designed around people getting what they individually need in ~30 packs. 450 thousand gold is not a small amount, and assuming the game grows, there will be a demand for surplus of both cards AND equipment down the line.

      These packs are simply not around for long enough to justify the sub-1% droprate that currently seems to exist on the equipment. If they were around for an entire year, then I could understand it. But they're only here for a few months, and thus the droprates should be a bit higher to encourage people to actually spend. We don't want such scarcity on the equipment that nobody wants the cards.

      And there will ALWAYS be a demand for the merc, since mercs enable playstyles. So giving us more of them just allows us to pass that on to new players without it being a 20 dollar investment. Tealwing is already nearing ~20 dollars some of the time. Fortunately Sekki seemed much more common, so a lot of people have a surplus... but I've heard a LOT of people say they've bought dozens of packs and only gotten one juicey. It seems like the current merc drop rate is insanely low, and down the line he is going to be prohibitively expensive. Which is not a good thing.
      Gamer. Streamer. Photographer. Writer. Anime Lover. Possessor of Stuffed Animals.

      Also... I'm terrible at this game.
    • Feels like the Merc rate for Cladislav may be higher.

      I also wonder if the Tiara is higher drops than Guise but probably it's just lower demand.

      I think my measure of rarity being wrong is that the price due to rarity is vastly higher than can be justified in comparison to what else that plat could buy (especially since it's in the rarely-traded category of equips): there is no PVP card you can't buy both cheaper and easier than Guise or Raven's more.
    • Gregangel wrote:

      As intended no ?
      Goal is to let the lucky one sell it to the players who want it so badly.
      You should just buy it
      The problem becomes that there simply are likely not enough of them spawned overall. And because the other items are so common, the pack becomes NOT WORTH BUYING as a whole.

      Hex needs to get a middle ground sorted...

      I never got either of the equipment, and I dunno if I'll buy any more of this kismet pack hunting for it...
      Gamer. Streamer. Photographer. Writer. Anime Lover. Possessor of Stuffed Animals.

      Also... I'm terrible at this game.
    • Gregangel wrote:

      Monthieu wrote:

      The chase equipment is starting to feel a little ridiculous.
      As intended no ?Goal is to let the lucky one sell it to the players who want it so badly.
      You should just buy it
      I should just buy it.. if the ridiculous rarity didn't make it more expensive than even the best PVP stuff. This is exacerbated by the difficulty of selling stuff (Ah being particularly inadequate for low frequency sales) or even working out what it should cost and people's natural tendency to hold on to what they have even when they wouldn't pay what they can sell it for.

      There mostly isn't a Guise or a More on the AH even if I wanted to buy one and Royal Crib is over 7kp: that can get you a PLAYSET of Brides! (most expensive PVP non-AA) [i didn't check but I doubt it sells at that price]
      [that's not just right now it's been fairly consistently like that for the last month]

      Do you seriously believe these fun equips should be restricted to people who get very lucky and those who are willing to pay that much?

      Also I will repeat that this isn't making value in the HEX economy or for the packs, the value of these equips is being stolen from the other contents of the pack which all hit the plat-floor as a result.

      Personally I don't see the need for "chase" items generated artificially by rarity in KR packs but I wouldn't mind them if they weren't this extreme.
      Possibly the situation would be improved if equips could be put on AH for a month at a time and reviewed/removed with a vaguely usable interface that didn't sort them to the back no matter what you do.
    • Tbh after reading all this, I do not see the problem.

      Personal view of TS: Nice things are to hard to get with the limited resources I invest in them, this makes me feel bad.

      Welcome to the real world, this is with everything.

      Just simply increase the resources, at your disposal to get what you want.
      With all things you spend time for value or value for time.

      Think outside of the box:

      -Like if I want to get these things I value-

      - I can go mow the lawn or dish wash a week at a place for 50 bucks.
      - Not go to the Cafe and not drink beverages for a evening.
      - Not take that take away every week
      - Give something of value "Sell Something" , to gain required capitol.

      Or do something in game to increase value.

      I see these matters often uttered through every kind of subject, topic or event in life.

      So I mean to say this in the nicest possible way and this is meant so.

      Life is not fair, life does not care, there are no entitlements in life.
      You are responsible for how you feel, and how you coupe with what happens to you.
      What you want and what you get out of everything you do, want enz in life.

      That is why I try to be a nice person, knowing that everything which is given is a blessing.
      Living in gratitude for what we have, and the generosity others bestow upon you.

      I like to be nice , kind and gentle. But sometimes you got to say it as it is.

      "Personal view of TS: Nice things are to hard to get with the limited resources I invest in them, this makes me feel bad."

      This does not make you a bad person, this is not an attack on you. For all I know you are the most lovely of human beings.

      But not saying this would make me a bad person.
      I hope you can reflect on the words which I have spoken.

      Thank you kindly for you time :)
    • Eraia wrote:

      Gregangel wrote:

      As intended no ?
      Goal is to let the lucky one sell it to the players who want it so badly.
      You should just buy it
      The problem becomes that there simply are likely not enough of them spawned overall. And because the other items are so common, the pack becomes NOT WORTH BUYING as a whole.
      Hex needs to get a middle ground sorted...

      I never got either of the equipment, and I dunno if I'll buy any more of this kismet pack hunting for it...

      Timlagor wrote:

      Gregangel wrote:

      Monthieu wrote:

      The chase equipment is starting to feel a little ridiculous.
      As intended no ?Goal is to let the lucky one sell it to the players who want it so badly.You should just buy it
      I should just buy it.. if the ridiculous rarity didn't make it more expensive than even the best PVP stuff. This is exacerbated by the difficulty of selling stuff (Ah being particularly inadequate for low frequency sales) or even working out what it should cost and people's natural tendency to hold on to what they have even when they wouldn't pay what they can sell it for.
      There mostly isn't a Guise or a More on the AH even if I wanted to buy one and Royal Crib is over 7kp: that can get you a PLAYSET of Brides! (most expensive PVP non-AA) [i didn't check but I doubt it sells at that price]
      [that's not just right now it's been fairly consistently like that for the last month]

      Do you seriously believe these fun equips should be restricted to people who get very lucky and those who are willing to pay that much?

      Also I will repeat that this isn't making value in the HEX economy or for the packs, the value of these equips is being stolen from the other contents of the pack which all hit the plat-floor as a result.

      Personally I don't see the need for "chase" items generated artificially by rarity in KR packs but I wouldn't mind them if they weren't this extreme.
      Possibly the situation would be improved if equips could be put on AH for a month at a time and reviewed/removed with a vaguely usable interface that didn't sort them to the back no matter what you do.
      It is literally the point that it is rare i don't know how you don't understand this. Yes it could be tweaked a percentage point here or there but it is overall working exactly as intended. It is also infinitely better than the convocation pack chase not only do they seem more common but you could theoretically farm absurd amounts of gold and buy several hundred packs giving you as good as a guaranteed item if you want that.

      The packs are a gold sink this is their purpose the added pve fun and all that jazz is a extra benefit not the purpose of the packs. If that was the point they would just add the packs as drops somewhere.
    • Adaline wrote:


      Welcome to the real world, this is with everything.

      Just simply increase the resources, at your disposal to get what you want.
      With all things you spend time for value or value for time.
      Well you may have read the thread but you completely missed the point.
      The point isn't that I can't have these things, it's that they have a real value but are priced far above that value due to an entirely arbitrary scarcity.

      No amount of money at my end is going to make them worth a playset of Brides -the only solution in your direction is to have enough money-for-HEX that I just didn't care about prices of anything at all, which still wouldn't make the prices sensible and certainly isn't viable for everyone who would like these (and certainly isn't "washing dishes" money since that would have to compete not just with all the other things in HEX but also with everything outside HEX ..and then would have to overcome my established view of what money should buy).

      Do you even realise you are suggesting that a single piece of Equipment is as valuable as most computer games or board games?