HEX Bash Announcement

    • New

      Goliathus wrote:

      I don't know about you guys but I am more worried about Hex Ent potentially losing money every week from Bash. With a $7 entry prize and a total cash prize of $1000, the number to breakeven is 143, and we don't even hit that on the first week. If things stay like how it should be, as in the participants are not going to go over the first week's amount, then Hex Ent is losing money every week just to "promote constructed". Assuming we have 100 participants from here on out, Hex Ent is losing $300 per week on this event.


      "Hey, what about people who buy constructed deck to play the event? Shouldn't that count as an income?" First and foremost, unless said person bought the constructed deck just to play Bash, and moves on to other constructed tournaments from there, then no, it should not count. For players that are already playing constructed before Bash announcement, then they already bought their deck before Bash and Bash has no influence in their decision to purchase the deck. Until I see ladder activity pick up or new names coming into Bash in the next few weeks, I will continue to assume that Hex Ent is losing money with Bash.
      There are different ways to see this other then its just losing money

      - if hex considers this as marketing then its yearly cost is 52k - any entry fee they pick up

      - if hex considers all their cash tournament as a one total cost ( Bash +clash). Clash brings in more then it gives and Bash brings less but together are they losing or making or breaking even. -



      In any company you cannot just calculate one lost of something and eliminate it because you lose money. You have to considered what it brings as a total bottom line ( will it retain players? Will it increase the demande of cards? Will it bring in new players and will they spend= all of this is harder to quantify)
    • New

      Goliathus wrote:

      "Hey, what about people who buy constructed deck to play the event? Shouldn't that count as an income?" First and foremost, unless said person bought the constructed deck just to play Bash, and moves on to other constructed tournaments from there, then no, it should not count. For players that are already playing constructed before Bash announcement, then they already bought their deck before Bash and Bash has no influence in their decision to purchase the deck. Until I see ladder activity pick up or new names coming into Bash in the next few weeks, I will continue to assume that Hex Ent is losing money with Bash.

      Of course more cash prize constructed tournaments induce more plat spent in buying competitive deck. Especially at every new set release because you have to be competitive righ away the first few week-end. You can expect with set 8 much more AH activity.

      Plus you also underestimate the importance of collectors whales which are ready to let a lot of plat enterring the economy to buy all the juicy AAA.

      Last point, people keep saying Hex's income = plat leaving the system. No, hundreds times no. income = plat entering the system.
      So yeah The clash and Bash is doing that important thing. It sink plat inducing players to make more plat entering the system. And new collector stuff make even more plat enterring the system

      So it is by no mean a lose for Hex. And if it was it would be a very small investment to make the competitive aspect of the game more popular
    • New

      I agree with what Gregangel said, but even if that's not the case, I would be really worried if Hex couldn't manage a small lose per week because of the Bash. In real numbers, the potential loss of a Bash with less participants than the prize pool is not that much.

      I also agree a lot with what Portensio said:

      Portensio wrote:

      There are different ways to see this other then its just losing money

      - if hex considers this as marketing then its yearly cost is 52k - any entry fee they pick up

      - if hex considers all their cash tournament as a one total cost ( Bash +clash). Clash brings in more then it gives and Bash brings less but together are they losing or making or breaking even. -
      Twitter: @Plotynus

      ZonaHex.com - Un sitio en español sobre Hex! / A spanish site about Hex.
    • New

      Ouroboros wrote:

      Jest curious...how do the door prizes work?

      Do you see that you got one when the final standings window comes up, or do you not find out until the Twitter report(which I think will come out Monday)?

      Jest askin!

      *******EDIT***********

      Nevermind!

      Found the info on the clash page...

      Sez they send you an in game mail.


      ***********************


      %%%%%%% Second EDIT %%%%%%%%%%%%%%


      Looks like this info was wrong, as I jest saw I won Frostlock sleeves ( Spiffy ! ) on Twitter and I got no in game mail or any other indication until I saw the list there...


      Paws crossed fer dem sweet Sabrekitteh sleeves now...


      %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
    • New

      Portensio wrote:

      There are different ways to see this other then its just losing money
      - if hex considers this as marketing then its yearly cost is 52k - any entry fee they pick up

      - if hex considers all their cash tournament as a one total cost ( Bash +clash). Clash brings in more then it gives and Bash brings less but together are they losing or making or breaking even. -

      In any company you cannot just calculate one lost of something and eliminate it because you lose money. You have to considered what it brings as a total bottom line ( will it retain players? Will it increase the demande of cards? Will it bring in new players and will they spend= all of this is harder to quantify)
      I think it does nothing in terms of outward marketing(as in trying to bring in non-players into the game) because well, we don't even have general marketing to the outside and Bash is only going to bring in the super-competitive player, which is rarer than a generic player that Hex should target as of now, in my opinion.

      Your second point is fair but I don't think one total cost is a good way to look at it. Everything should be examined separately.

      I also don't think those things are hard to quantify, especially when Hex Ent has all the data. We, of the public, can already assess activity level of the game through the API data. I feel like looking at the AH activity, especially of meta cards, and constructed activity(ladder and tournament, free or otherwise) are all good indicators of what Bash bring in.

      Gregangel wrote:

      Of course more cash prize constructed tournaments induce more plat spent in buying competitive deck. Especially at every new set release because you have to be competitive righ away the first few week-end. You can expect with set 8 much more AH activity.

      Plus you also underestimate the importance of collectors whales which are ready to let a lot of plat enterring the economy to buy all the juicy AAA.

      Last point, people keep saying Hex's income = plat leaving the system. No, hundreds times no. income = plat entering the system.
      So yeah The clash and Bash is doing that important thing. It sink plat inducing players to make more plat entering the system. And new collector stuff make even more plat enterring the system

      So it is by no mean a lose for Hex. And if it was it would be a very small investment to make the competitive aspect of the game more popular
      I don't think it is as easy as you said. "More tournaments, same players" is a possible scenario. In the case of such scenario, then all that those constructed tournaments provide are more value for the "same players"(awesome for them) and not much else.

      I also disagree with competitive right away from the first weekend for a boat lot of reason.

      1. You sell primal content on the first week, you know that card prices are at an all time high at first week and most regular players avoid the first week. Not even all the competitive players buy cards on first week, so that is not a valid indication IMO. I have a few friends that are among the top 64, been in the last few CCS, participated in a lot of weekly tournaments of all kind, and they are still acquiring set 7 cards right now for competitive purpose. To get a full playset right from the first weekend just isn't something everyone does.

      2. The new meta is still settling in in the first few weekends. That brings up multiple subpoints:

      2a. Most of the people who buy cards for constructed in the first few weeks are largely innovators who love to experiment with new decks. Those with no intent of innovating has no need to get the new cards right away and risk them not being T1 a few weeks later. There are more netdeckers, even competitive players, than innovators out there and not every innovation can succeed in the highest level of competition. Unless you are a good innovator, there's not much reason to pay premium prize for new cards right away.

      2b. New meta never washes away all the old meta decks. A lot of competitive players can still bring their pre-new-set-T1 decks and be decently competitive in the tournaments of the first few weeks of a new set. This means that there is no need to wait for a new set to be competitive. Like, if I want to, I can jump in right now with say, a Redling deck, plays the next 2 months and maybe the first month of set 8. Why would I be waiting for set 8 when I can be competing in so many weekly tournament right now? The card price are at a good spot now and the meta is more or less stabalized, this is a good time as any to jump into constructed and we are at the middle(or almost middle, if you want to be extra precise) of a set.

      3. Competitive card game player can jump into any card game at any time and still do well. Amaz primarily play HS and he day 2-ed the first PT he is invited to, with I would assume not as much experience as others. There are also MTG players doing well here and some other games out there. Playing from day 1 of a new set isn't going to trump years of competitive experience. Also, don't wait, if you have the skill and you are new, jump in right away is usually the best move.

      4. From a marketing perspective, the best marketing one can do is to get players to buy cards immediately. Like those shopping channels out there, they sometime even convinced people who don't need the item they are selling to buy them. Or the impulse that make gamers buy game on Steam that they don't even touch for the next 5 years. Or the impulse that makes (mostly) ladies that buy some bags or whatever, and question "why in the world that I buy this?" a few hours later. That's the highest level, sand to an Arab, marketing. It can be unrealistic to expect that kind of impact from a card game tournament, but immediate impact should be the goal of marketing, or the level to strive for, at least. If all Bash does is make players think "ah, I am going to get into the scene two months later", then it has done...an okay job, I guess, but not great.

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      As for whales, last I check some of them are disappointed by the recent AAA and AAA sales and prices are decreasing as a whole. I am not sure if that's a good long term plan if we are shooting for profit. Plus, this is really a side benefit as it doesn't affect the amount of players and the competitiveness of the constructed scene.

      You are right on the plat coming in. I have no argument on that part. And I would like the game to have a growing competitive scene and I will wait and see for now. The Bash is still fresh.

      Dragoth wrote:

      It would be STILL great if there was a tournament that Australians could participate in at some point in time.
      I am more surprised that they have not cater to their European fanbase, which is much larger than their Asian/Oceania fanbase at the moment. I am from Malaysia, so an event time that allows Australians to participate would allow me too, but at this point it's just not a viable decision to make in terms of profit. European, on other hand, are a big portion of the player base. Not having event running at their time sounds like loss of profit to me.