Innovating the PVE rewards (gold)

    • Changed the time I mentioned in an earlier post. I don't get 6 minutes clears either (mostly do the Ruins myself which is probably a little slower but not that much). It's also possible that my computer doesn't handle stuff as fast as yasi's. Watching twitch, things seem to move about my speed but I have seen some clips of people moving through decisions much faster than my computer handles them. (I think it was terrorantulas in particular that struck me).

      CoachFliperon wrote:


      Timlagor wrote:

      I was looking for something more generic to make the incentive to play optimally much less strong.
      That sentence just does not make sense.
      You will always try to be efficient at getting what you want. For example, if you really want the rewards at the end of a dungeon, you'll find the most efficient path (for you) to it. For a lot of players, that efficiency is in term of time it takes to get it. For some others, time is less of a factor and their enjoyment of the deck they play is the greater deciding factor. Either way, human nature is that we try to get what we want in what seems to be the most efficient route for us to get it (consciously or not).
      While economists would love for that to be true, the fact is that humans are not actually remotely rational in our behaviour.
      Claims about "revealed preferences" and subconscious preferences don't remotely come close to standing up, nor does limited information explain human behaviour. We regularly act in strange ways and ways that are just outright against our interests even when we have the information to know it. People confronted with their irrational behaviour will often not care and/or repeat it anyway -and it is not a secret preference at work as increased happiness does not result. This is just one of the reasons why economists are so wrong so often but not actually terribly relevant to the what I was trying to convey:


      What I thought I was saying clearly was that I wanted to lower the incentive to play optimally in terms of gold acquisition so that the existing competing incentive to play with a variety of cards and champions and brew your own decks just because it's more interesting would not come with such a massive gold handicap.

      My goal is not simply to give you some more hoops to aim at that loads of people will then simply pick up close-to-optimal answers to from the forum.

      CoachFliperon wrote:

      What cannot be done is having a reward that is both desirable and that doesn't reward being efficient at getting it. That does not exist. Any reward scheme that could ever be implemented will always have a "most" efficient way to get it.

      Maybe you wish you'd have a greater variety of objectives to pursue in PVE (which I would also be happy to have) but you will never, ever, remove time as a factor in pursuing any goals. Speed will always be a factor as long as there are desired results.
      More so, if you ever have a reward that you get by being "less efficient" in any meaningful amount, the value of such reward would just quickly devaluate to nothing as everyone would have it just as a byproduct of playing. If suddenly you need to put some amount of efforts to get it, there will be a most efficient way to do so and you'll be back to square one.
      I think you have understood my goal but simply refuse to believe that I mean it. I don't want to remove time as an incentive but I want to lower its importance.

      I specifically am suggesting that a portion of gold rewards be just a byproduct of playing (subject to being active and actually winning; though possibly with a portion even if you lose) as a means to achieve this.


      Thus one might complete a dungeon once in the time it takes Yasi to run it four times but still get 60% of the gold he does for that time instead of 25%.


      ("devalueate" isn't a word, it's just "devalue")
    • Wolzarg wrote:

      You might not but many people would especially those with limited time to play. If i share my tech at 10 wins its unlikely i will get to 100 and impossible i will get to 1000 before anyone else.
      I didn't see any mention of trying to get there before anyone else: all that matters if how many times you have done a thing.
      The only incentive to keep it to yourself would be to lower other people's ability to get gold as fast and thus marginally increase the value of your gold.
    • I'll type out the list for the Xocoy deck people are talking about so the discussion can get back on topic

      Character - Elf Warrior (level 15 gives turn 2 kill. Less than that is turn 3)

      Main Deck:
      59x Ruby shard
      1x Xocoy (With Both equipment) / (Socketed with both warrior talent gems)

      Mercs:
      Ashahsa
      Corporal Hadrian
      Any merc that gives +1 attack to a troop in your deck. (Ideally +1/+1 so Xocoy can't be scrap bombed)

      Talents:
      Training: Combat
      Reinforcements
      Training: Deployment
      Training: Tactics (Not actually needed)
      Warlord: Strength (Probably not actually needed)
      Warlord: Agility
      Warlord: Parrying (Not needed it's just a pass by to get to the talents passed it)
      Unlock: Warlord War Machine (Not needed it's just a pass by to get to the talents passed it)
      Deep Pockets
      Warrior Class Gems
      Fury
      Berserking

      Everygame you play:
      Hand: Make sure it doesn't have Xocoy in
      Turn 1 - Ruby Shard
      Pass to opponents turn
      Turn 2 - Ruby Shard
      Charge power opponents face
      Use Reinforcements which adds Xocoy since there's no other trained troop
      Xocoy makes a 1 cost orc which you use to mobilize the Xocoy into play
      Xocoy Swings
      Use Xocoy power main phase 2 to ready the 1 cost orc and swing with Xocoy again to win.

      Charge power does 4 damage. Xocoy swing one does 13 damage, xocoy swing 2 does 19 damage. 36 damage every turn 2. Each match can be done in 30 seconds (comes to 5-6 minutes total for the run when you consider moving to each encounter, clicking through text boxes and the little load time before and after games).

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Reeplay ().

    • Timlagor wrote:

      Wolzarg wrote:

      You might not but many people would especially those with limited time to play. If i share my tech at 10 wins its unlikely i will get to 100 and impossible i will get to 1000 before anyone else.
      I didn't see any mention of trying to get there before anyone else: all that matters if how many times you have done a thing.The only incentive to keep it to yourself would be to lower other people's ability to get gold as fast and thus marginally increase the value of your gold.
      typhonesteins post mentioned a bonus for less played cards
    • Reeplay wrote:

      I'll type out the list for the Xocoy deck people are talking about so the discussion can get back on topic

      Character - Elf Warrior (level 15 gives turn 2 kill. Less than that is turn 3)

      Main Deck:
      59x Ruby shard
      1x Xocoy (With Both equipment) / (Socketed with both warrior talent gems)

      Mercs:
      Ashahsa
      Corporal Hadrian
      Any merc that gives +1 attack to a troop in your deck. (Ideally +1/+1 so Xocoy can't be scrap bombed)

      Talents:
      Training: Combat
      Reinforcements
      Training: Deployment
      Training: Tactics (Not actually needed)
      Warlord: Strength (Probably not actually needed)
      Warlord: Agility
      Warlord: Parrying (Not needed it's just a pass by to get to the talents passed it)
      Unlock: Warlord War Machine (Not needed it's just a pass by to get to the talents passed it)
      Deep Pockets
      Warrior Class Gems
      Fury
      Berserking

      Everygame you play:
      Hand: Make sure it doesn't have Xocoy in
      Turn 1 - Ruby Shard
      Pass to opponents turn
      Turn 2 - Ruby Shard
      Charge power opponents face
      Use Reinforcements which adds Xocoy since there's no other trained troop
      Xocoy makes a 1 cost orc which you use to mobilize the Xocoy into play
      Xocoy Swings
      Use Xocoy power main phase 2 to ready the 1 cost orc and swing with Xocoy again to win.

      Charge power does 4 damage. Xocoy swing one does 13 damage, xocoy swing 2 does 19 damage. 36 damage every turn 2. Each match can be done in 30 seconds (comes to 5-6 minutes total for the run when you consider moving to each encounter, clicking through text boxes and the little load time before and after games).
      @Reeplay This doesn't work because Xocoy is a 5cost troop. On turn 2, you have 2 resources, using charge power gives +2, so now you have 4, you use 2 for Reinforcements, that's 2 left. Xocoy can mobilize for 3.
    • Vroengard wrote:

      @Reeplay This doesn't work because Xocoy is a 5cost troop. On turn 2, you have 2 resources, using charge power gives +2, so now you have 4, you use 2 for Reinforcements, that's 2 left. Xocoy can mobilize for 3.
      Level 15 elf warrior makes all legendaries in deck cost -1 so Xocoy is 4 cost mobilized to 2. That's why I said turn 2 for level 15 and turn 3 for non-level 15