DEAR DEVS: We WANT/NEED 2v2 / co-op asap!!!

    • Hex doesn't have big enough playerbase
      Casual formats will bring more players
      But casual formats need a big enough playerbase
      But Hex doesn't have a big enough playerbase
      But casual formats will bring more players
      .
      .
      .
      .
      As you can see, at some point you have to take a decision: Scrap casual formats entirely, wait for something unrelated to impact the game and change the situation parameters (i.e. something unrelated to casual formats significantly inreases the playerbase) or actually acknowledge the fact that they will suffer with big queue times at first but flourish in the long run.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Vroengard ().

    • Eraia wrote:

      Mobile maybe. The mobile game market is MOSTLY free to play, and the average mobile player spends extremely little on games... so Hex might not attract many new players in a mobile market... whereas mobile play would provide a great new way for already existing players to play.
      Casual formats don't attract new players. Casual formats give existing players a means to use their collections in new ways. That's why they're such a big deal on these forums. We have a lot of people with big collections who want to be able to use more than 1% of those collections to play.

      New markets and better onboarding will get people into the game. Means to play without having a lot of cards will get new players. Which is why I see the PS4 as a great stepping stone. Dueling pit, a new market, etc.

      I think if PvE were a better showcase of what Hex had to offer, it'd attract new people too... but it's not, at least not early on. So that's not worth getting into.
      One good thing about mobile is the F2P players have higher tolerance of playing games F2Ply. Mobile games are largely "pay or ready-to-die-to-the-whales" yet some F2P players stick to it. If they can that loyal to Mobile Hex, it's not bad to have them. Also, don't underestimate the power of mobile whales. There are even Facebook Gaming whales, big spenders can be found everywhere.

      Eraia wrote:

      Transience wrote:

      Have you heard of MtG? If so, have you ever taken a look at the popularity of Pauper & EDH?
      Which is exactly what I said. They were popular among the existing large playerbase.
      Pauper and EDH were both new ways to play that came out after the game already had an established population and were extremely popular because they gave the PLAYERS WHO WERE GETTING TIRED OF THE GAME a new way to play. Basically the helped give cards that were rotting in peoples' collections new life. That's great, but that's not 'new players' it's 'revitalizing the game for existing players'.

      Any new players they brought in were brought in because of the ease of people giving their friends a silly deck to play with to see how fun it was, predominately in multiplayer.

      People who had never played MTG and didn't have friends who played MTG didn't see the game and be like 'wow I want a game mode where I can play with only one of each card and a commander that dictates deck restrictions - holy crap, they have that? I'm sold!'... they saw the game, started playing probably because of a friend introducing them to the game, then eventually saw EDH and played it.
      What you said can be true and not true at the same time. There are some format-exclusive players who stick to one format, and that format can be EDH or whatever. I have lingered in Magic Duels of the Planewalkers and Magic Duels forums. There are players who decide whether to get that year's DotP based on whether Two-Headed Giant is there or not.


      Frederik wrote:

      With the current limit on the ammount of players atm you would just divide people more over different tournaments. making the waiting time for each tournament longer
      I think that is a fallacy. We have similar player base at the beginning and end of a season, yet the early and final portion of a season are the most active. I think it is safe to say that long waiting time is because "players are not interested in playing these available formats at these time" than "a lack of players". If players are not wanting to play the available formats, then having new formats will not really affect the current amount of players. Forcing them to play the available format yields not much of a result, as the long waiting time in the slower portion of the season is there in the current climate.
    • Frederik wrote:

      Transience wrote:

      Eraia wrote:

      Transience wrote:

      Have you heard of MtG? If so, have you ever taken a look at the popularity of Pauper & EDH?
      Which is exactly what I said. They were popular among the existing large playerbase.
      And the lack of these formats in HEX is what keeping some of them out.
      Dont think pauper etc are bad idea but its not the right time for it.With the current limit on the ammount of players atm you would just divide people more over different tournaments. making the waiting time for each tournament longer
      Yep, that also was the argument that Cory gave on streams a number of months ago. I understand the argument and it has some merit but I still do think that casual formats is the biggest pull. HEX needs to be that game that does everything MtG does but better and cheaper.
      "Ignorant beliefs are stains upon the mind."
    • Transience wrote:

      Swigmonkey wrote:

      Transience wrote:

      I don't think your assessment is correct. I am aware that a lot of people who are already playing would like multiplayer. I don't think that it is what would attract new players though, at least not in a significant amount. Other missing features would certainly be a better pull, like casual formats and mobile play.

      I understand you'd think it would be entertaining to help a newbie through a 2v2 dungeon and showcase a deck live but I don't think the average newbie will want that because it would be very intimidating.

      So whereas Multiplayer could eventually be a great addition to HEX, I don't think it should have focus before other things are implemented.

      Transience wrote:

      Eraia wrote:

      Casual formats don't attract new players.
      Whut?Have you heard of MtG? If so, have you ever taken a look at the popularity of Pauper & EDH?
      Literally you backtracked. EDH is a MULTIPLAYER format which a large portion of casual players, which by far outnumber the competitive players in MTG, play. How can you literally say multiplayer formats wouldn't attract a significant amount with seriousness after your latest post?With that said, if you are referring to the time that HEX has been without it and it has a chance to add a nil amount of people because people moved on and invested in another physical TCG/CCG or went back to MTG and EDH (I know quite a few people that picked up EDH in the last 2 years over playing HEX) I could agree that HEX has indeed past a potential growth stage.
      EDH isn't multiplayer.
      What? EDH is MULTIPLAYER. What are you talking about? Yes I have played it 1 on 1 to test things, but in any capacity from EDH leagues etc, it is generally 4 or 5 player multiplayer. In the MTGO client it supports at least 4 players (not sure if more as i don't play on that anymore)

      "Elder Dragon Highlander is a Magic: The Gathering variant which provides a way of encouraging casual, interactive games with a low barrier to entry while still requiring good deck building skills. It can be played 1-on-1 but is usually multiplayer." Source: mtg.wikia.com/wiki/EDH

      Additionally direct from WOTC websites: "The Commander format is all about picking your hero and building a deck around them. In this casual, multiplayer format, you choose a legendary creature to serve as your commander and build the rest of your deck around their color identity."
    • Swigmonkey wrote:

      What? EDH is MULTIPLAYER. What are you talking about? Yes I have played it 1 on 1 to test things, but in any capacity from EDH leagues etc, it is generally 4 or 5 player multiplayer. In the MTGO client it supports at least 4 players (not sure if more as i don't play on that anymore)
      "Elder Dragon Highlander is a Magic: The Gathering variant which provides a way of encouraging casual, interactive games with a low barrier to entry while still requiring good deck building skills. It can be played 1-on-1 but is usually multiplayer." Source: mtg.wikia.com/wiki/EDH

      Additionally direct from WOTC websites: "The Commander format is all about picking your hero and building a deck around them. In this casual, multiplayer format, you choose a legendary creature to serve as your commander and build the rest of your deck around their color identity."
      You can play every format as multiplayer.

      I haven't looked at MTGO in a year but in the years before that there were always lots and lots of 1vs1 games of EDH in progress. Multiplayer games were usually 0 or 1 at the same time.

      So what's relevant here is for HEX to implement the formats that are objectively popular in MtG before they implement formats or features that are less popular.

      If you want to hook more players you need to focus on what the most new people would probably want. That's casual formats, not multiplayer.
      "Ignorant beliefs are stains upon the mind."
    • Goliathus wrote:

      There are some format-exclusive players who stick to one format,
      However, I sincerely doubt very many of these players FOUND MTG because of that format. I doubt almost ANYONE outside of MTG knows 'EDH' exists unless they have a friend who plays it OR they are a part of a community like this where there're people who play MTG constantly talking about it.

      They may have BECOME 'format only' players, but most likely it was MTG itself OR a friend that GOT them into the game.

      And unless Hex implements 'deck lending' as an easy feature, 'a friend who plays it' is much less of a draw.
      Gamer. Streamer. Photographer. Writer. Anime Lover. Possessor of Stuffed Animals.

      Also... I'm terrible at this game.
    • I am wondering though if they make formats that are like Magic TCG isnt hex gonna be sued again?
      Hex is a different games and needs its own specific formats in my opinion.
      Maybe if everyone puts there heads togheter the people can come up with some unique formats that are hex specific and that the developers like hard enough to implement it and that can attract alot of new player.

      Many stupid ideas can make 1 great idea hehe
    • Eraia wrote:

      However, I sincerely doubt very many of these players FOUND MTG because of that format. I doubt almost ANYONE outside of MTG knows 'EDH' exists unless they have a friend who plays it OR they are a part of a community like this where there're people who play MTG constantly talking about it.
      They may have BECOME 'format only' players, but most likely it was MTG itself OR a friend that GOT them into the game.

      And unless Hex implements 'deck lending' as an easy feature, 'a friend who plays it' is much less of a draw.
      I don't think the idea is they found MTG because of that format, but they STICK TO MTG because of it. I think everyone discovers any game just...discovers it. Then, whether they stay or not depends on the features. For instance, some kickstarters do not play Hex now because there are no guild, raid and what not. They would play if those things are available. Same goes to this EDH. Some players or non-player-that-would-play-if-there's-something-they-like might be interested in Hex but they are not playing at the moment because the things they want is not in available. I think anyone interested in a card game like Hex would give the basic single player some tries before they decided it's not for them or go to another format. We just don't have formats for them to go to right now.

      For instance, there are a portion of Hearthstone players who stick to Arena because they like it that way. They certainly did not know Arena before they have played HS, yet they stick to the game because they like Arena. Some of them even expressed their dislike of HS constructed so they would not play HS if not for arena. This is the kind of players that Hex would add into their player base if they make more modes.

      From what I read on Hex Reddit and what not, many of the newbies tried out the campaign. Some asked in Reddit how to get into competitive PvP because they are not a fan of the campaign or whatever. But the idea is that any new player(with no former knowledge of the game) with any agenda would at least try out a part of the game and give it a try before deciding to stick or leave. EDH and whatever are just there to convince more people to stay.
    • The idea that it's easier to learn EDH than it is to learn evo or constructed is ridiculous. The complexity of the rules is far greater than the core game since it involves all the core game's rules AND a bunch of additional ones.

      EDH is NOT a format for new players. It's a format for players with a lot of cards they can't use for anything else. People really need to stop misrepresenting it.
      Gamer. Streamer. Photographer. Writer. Anime Lover. Possessor of Stuffed Animals.

      Also... I'm terrible at this game.
    • I am not sure why I am quoted there as I have not say anything about it being a newbie-friendly format. I assume I am tagged because of the word "EDH"? Anyway, how do you explain this post then:

      Swigmonkey wrote:

      I think there is a lot more people that see EDH and go wow, I'm sold than you are giving credit for. I help run a shop and many new players only play commander, why? Because that is what their friends got into. EDH actually has the appeal of 1 card of each type so you never have to buy 2 of the same card. A lot of people enjoy that aspect, over the need for 4 of each card.
      Are those new players here the outliers? Unless Swigmonkey is lying, which I highly doubt so, then these new players only play commander. MTG is harder to track because it's physical. Hex is digital so rules are semi-automated and should be easier to learn than MTG. Either way, I don't necessarily think it's a newbie magnet of a format, but it's just one more mode out there that can convince people to stick to the game and play more, which helps the game regardless of its newbie-friendliness. We have veterans taking vacations on Hex, maybe some of them would play more if there are more modes out there.
    • Eraia wrote:

      The idea that it's easier to learn EDH than it is to learn evo or constructed is ridiculous. The complexity of the rules is far greater than the core game since it involves all the core game's rules AND a bunch of additional ones.
      EDH is NOT a format for new players. It's a format for players with a lot of cards they can't use for anything else. People really need to stop misrepresenting it.
      There are 2 types of new players: players that don't know TCG's and players that know TCG's but don't know HEX.
      "Ignorant beliefs are stains upon the mind."
    • Transience wrote:

      Eraia wrote:

      The idea that it's easier to learn EDH than it is to learn evo or constructed is ridiculous. The complexity of the rules is far greater than the core game since it involves all the core game's rules AND a bunch of additional ones.EDH is NOT a format for new players. It's a format for players with a lot of cards they can't use for anything else. People really need to stop misrepresenting it.
      There are 2 types of new players: players that don't know TCG's and players that know TCG's but don't know HEX.
      There are 2 types of players. Players who plays Hex and Players who knows nothing about the life :P
    • About formats... Im wondering, what is worse:

      1. Having small amount of formats and try to keep players together, but eventuly they will be bored and stop playing

      2. Have many formats and Give people opportunity to Play what they want and if there will be not enough ppl to Play on specific format choose another with more players, so technicly difference shouldnt be as big to spread players too much? So there will be freshy formats between most playable formats?
    • AceBladewing wrote:

      Many formats is obviously better, but you need a larger player base to support it.
      Given what this page is about, I would strongly, strongly argue against that. Worst case scenario, having more formats simply means the "unloved" formats will see little action for multiplayer guys only. If those happen to be current formats, that's unfortunate, but a net positive, as clearly the players who were in there before didn't want to be.

      But co-op is not just a PvP affair. To put it rudely: I couldn't care less about PvP multiplayer, but more PvE content is right up my alley. If they give me more options to play, that'll only be an improvement.
      Never shift in to reverse without a backup plan.
    • I just wanted to re-state the importance of co-op play, especially if Hex is looking to get their way into Japan as a market. Not saying Japan isn't competitive at all, but if you look at the types of things that tend to succeed in Japan most. Monster Hunter, mostly PvE MMOs like FFXIV, etc. Japan is huge on cooperative games. Even in games like LoL, the co-op vs AI mode gets a lot more play in Japan than elsewhere from what I've heard.
      Gamer. Streamer. Photographer. Writer. Anime Lover. Possessor of Stuffed Animals.

      Also... I'm terrible at this game.
    • DraXor wrote:

      About formats... Im wondering, what is worse:

      1. Having small amount of formats and try to keep players together, but eventuly they will be bored and stop playing

      2. Have many formats and Give people opportunity to Play what they want and if there will be not enough ppl to Play on specific format choose another with more players, so technicly difference shouldnt be as big to spread players too much? So there will be freshy formats between most playable formats?
      At which point i wonder - why not have a larger chat with it's own LFG tab. and make it default. "looking for 1..2..3.. more draft players" already gets put into general. we can organize.In my opinion there is no such thing as too many formats in a digital environment. if certain formats don't get played that is one thing, but having 10-20 formats with ways to advertise them shouldn't be that bad.
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