Twilight Eclipse in Evo

    • Twilight Eclipse in Evo

      Why was this card not made rare? Who at Hex thinks is funny to make "uncommon twilight XXX" cards and make them OP in limited? Its not fun to play against. I get pissed off just seeing Papa Goot once the game starts. All I can wonder is when is twilight eclipse going to be played? Maybe if there was a bunch of cards with delpoy: kill target constant? There are just not enough answers for a card that is as powerful as Twilight Eclipse at the Uncommon level.

      /end rant
    • Respectfully I disagree, I think there are a suitable number of answers or archetypes that just outright outrace/beat it.

      Diamond
      - Dispel (C)
      - Blinding Ire (UNC)
      - Light of Day (UNC)

      Sapphire
      - Confounding Ire (UNC)
      - Hide and Seek (C)
      - Verdict (C)
      - Weave into Nothing (UNC)

      Wild
      - Nature Reigns (C)
      - Rotting Chompknight (UNC)

      I've lost a number of times running the archetype either to getting milled out before it could get going, or by facing down just an overwhelming amount of damage before the ticks could really get rolling.
    • i understand your problem, i saw the same during the celebrations event.
      i mean we have a very good wincon in unlimited with a champ that helps that wincon, but we have nearly zero counters to constants in this limited pool:(
      i count 5 possibilities to remove that eclipse (or any other constant like sting of scorpinox) from the board with C/UCs and only 4 more with rare/legendarys.
      Oh yes, and 2 interrupts of course....

      and its again diamond/blood who has that one card thats hard to remove and kills the oppenent alone most time together with the champ :(
      Dinglers are the best race on Entrath!
    • I agree it's super annoying to play against. Although to be fair it's not very common to play against in my experience. Many of the answers to Eclipse are sideboard cards you do not want in your evo deck. Cards like Blinding Ire, Verdict, Hide and Seek, Dispel, from Brynhilder's list I do not want to play in evo.

      feel like as an uncommon there should have been a downside to the card, like opposing troops get some kind of buff. It's a lazy design.
    • Shivdaddy wrote:

      Why was this card not made rare? Who at Hex thinks is funny to make "uncommon twilight XXX" cards and make them OP in limited? Its not fun to play against. I get pissed off just seeing Papa Goot once the game starts. All I can wonder is when is twilight eclipse going to be played? Maybe if there was a bunch of cards with delpoy: kill target constant? There are just not enough answers for a card that is as powerful as Twilight Eclipse at the Uncommon level.

      /end rant
      I played a draft last night

      by turn 5 he had,

      5x daybreak
      2x Nightfall
      1x eclipse.

      GG??

      The problem is not the archetype, its hard to make viable and you really have to be one of the few that drafts it to get eclipse.

      The problem is the answers. Not enough of them.

      Anothe archetype I also have problems with the caravan group since I found that alot of the direct removal is run at basic speed. but I still find it manageable . Twiligh deck is something else.
    • Brynhildr wrote:

      Respectfully I disagree, I think there are a suitable number of answers or archetypes that just outright outrace/beat it.

      Diamond
      - Dispel (C)
      - Blinding Ire (UNC)
      - Light of Day (UNC)

      Sapphire
      - Confounding Ire (UNC)
      - Hide and Seek (C)
      - Verdict (C)
      - Weave into Nothing (UNC)

      Wild
      - Nature Reigns (C)
      - Rotting Chompknight (UNC)

      I've lost a number of times running the archetype either to getting milled out before it could get going, or by facing down just an overwhelming amount of damage before the ticks could really get rolling.
      you main dekc all this cards in evo? I amprety sure your not.
      The topic isnt about draft its about evo.
    • I completely agree with OP. Unless I have complete board domination or have main deck constant removal in my hand, a turn 4 Twilight Eclipse is GG.
      I've been playing Hex since launch, and this is the first card I've ever found unbeatable in limited. At least Twilight Revenant could be taken down by a -1/-1 effect, and the format had a few decent ways to do that. Rotting Chompmaw and Light of Day are the only cards good enough to maindeck that hit Eclipse, and both of those are a turn higher on the curve.
    • I would main deck Blinding Ire, Light of Day, Hide and Seek, Weave into Nothing, Nature Reigns, and Rotting Chompknight in evo. All of these are decent/good enough on their own, and can answer Eclipse.

      If you have cards in your pool that can answer Twilight Eclipse and you choose not to run them, then how can you be upset when you lose to a Papa Goot matchup?
    • It's the format as well...

      I hate to say it cause I do play it when i don't have a lot of time, or there are no drafts firing but...evo (this set in particular) just really seems like a recipe for disaster or you're gonna blow peeps out most of the time. 1 round = win can many times be.. rough. There are so many ways rng can screw you already, having only a single round to win is really rolling the dice. It's not just Twilight Dream, but Caravan can fling massive game ending butterflies at you on turn 4 or 5. Draft is so much more fun and I've had way more competitive matches there. It seems wayyyy more balanced.

      I imagine it's hard to balance around Evo, and I'm glad they thought of Draft, Set Theme, etc...before evo. You just have to accept that someone will have a pool with 3 Twilight Dreams sometimes, and sometimes you will have a terrible pool with no constant removal. Clash was fun last week even though I had a bad pool, this set is way more fun as a "best of 3". I do sympathize though, because there are times where I just wanna play some limited and the draft isn't firing. I pop an evo and am sometimes like "...whyyy"
    • papa goot / eclipse / constant archetype is just unfun to play (against) - ofc its often bad or too slow, but its like conscript - it leaves you with a bad taste after the match quite often.

      its ok losing vs aggro decks or evasion stuff, but playing vs goot is just boring and can take aaaaaaages and with twilight its just broken in limited - nobody EVER will maindeck 2-3 constant removals in evo - its less a problem in draft thats for sure - but the masses do play evo and thats bad for the overall feeling for a lot of players.

      but hey, just about 8 month to get rid of it :)
      Austrian Kickstarter & Slacker Backer
      -=] Dont mess with the bull, you gonna get the horn [=-
    • Honestly my impression of this set is that they threw evo under the buss to make draft superb this also leaves sealed fairly mediocre which I'm not a fan of considering how big clash is.

      But i think its between impossible and super hard to have both draft evo and sealed functional and despite me not loving the new draft format i feel draft should be favored always if you have to make a choice.
    • Uncombat damage always good especially in limited, you just need to sit there with all your creatures without attack, and save your removal for opponent's evasion. So while it also with healing, how can you lose any more? I guess the only chance for opponent is you never draw it.
    • IVIagic wrote:

      Uncombat damage always good especially in limited, you just need to sit there with all your creatures without attack, and save your removal for opponent's evasion. So while it also with healing, how can you lose any more? I guess the only chance for opponent is you never draw it.
      Its a build around card that requires notable sacrifice as it is one of the worst cards in the game with no other cards around it. The healing is nominal and outraced by most aggro decks and the final piece of information is that the card is fairly easy to destroy with only as far as i know a single card to protect it in those colors.
    • Wolzarg wrote:

      Honestly my impression of this set is that they threw evo under the buss to make draft superb this also leaves sealed fairly mediocre which I'm not a fan of considering how big clash is.

      But i think its between impossible and super hard to have both draft evo and sealed functional and despite me not loving the new draft format i feel draft should be favored always if you have to make a choice.
      I don't think so , they integrated evo in their testing starting with set 6.

      You will always have better choices in draft then in evo. You can determine curves , removal and other stuff that any sealed deck can't .

      I'm not found of twilight but I have yet to have seen it that much. I will learn to play around it
    • I would just like to point out that EVO is the least competitive format from all three Limited formats. Proof: Matches are best of 1 (Sealed Deck is being changed to Bo3 with reserves). EVO has the lowest K-Value (10, compared to 15 in Sealed and 20 in Draft Gauntlet). Cards should not be evaluated based on their EVO performance.

      See this thread for Draft Gauntlet data:
      09/07 Papa Goot had 8% 3-0 drafts in the latest 100 drafts.
      11/07 14%
      12/07 13%
    • Vroengard wrote:

      I would just like to point out that EVO is the least competitive format from all three Limited formats. Proof: Matches are best of 1 (Sealed Deck is being changed to Bo3 with reserves). EVO has the lowest K-Value (10, compared to 15 in Sealed and 20 in Draft Gauntlet). Cards should not be evaluated based on their EVO performance.

      See this thread for Draft Gauntlet data:
      09/07 Papa Goot had 8% 3-0 drafts in the latest 100 drafts.
      11/07 14%
      12/07 13%
      evo might be the least competitive format - but its the most played format ;p
      Austrian Kickstarter & Slacker Backer
      -=] Dont mess with the bull, you gonna get the horn [=-
    • Vroengard wrote:

      Cards should not be evaluated based on their EVO performance.
      This is not a healthy approach.

      Cards need to be evaluated for all forms of play that are officially supported by Hex. Balance by the 'trickle down' effect is a bad idea(ie. only balancing for the absolute best players and hoping it trickles down to the masses) - it leads to a poor experience for everyone else and rarely achieves sustainable balance.

      That being said, I have lost to constant decks, but they aren't oppressive or common. There ARE enough constants, in my eyes, to justify running constant based removal cards in your deck though. Most archetypes have SOME form of constant they enjoy running that is relatively commonly seen. So even if it's not countering one of their biggest threats, it will still be useful.
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