FRA 2.0 Review - Initial Thoughts

    • Halsey wrote:

      I get that a lot of people feel like they've lost their 'sandbox', but I for one think it's great that we got a 'puzzle' that actually makes it feel like a challenge to tune a deck concept enough to do well with it.
      My only real problem with the 'puzzle' is that it's tuned too strongly against certain archetypes with no option for strategic diversity within.

      Why does mill get a prettymuch free pass(with the only 'anti mill' deck still being beatable by mill if you do it in a single turn) while burn decks have field medic to contend with, for example? The different in the severity of the counters is a problem. Whether you're okay with the hard counters or not, it's a problem to have SOME strategies/card types/etc. hard countered while others are soft countered. That is, unless we have more strategy at our disposal.

      I think the puzzle would be more fun if the player had more strategic tools to work with. Which is why I feel that a 'multiple decks' approach is best. Let us bring a few different decks so we can really create a team of decks that works with each others' strengths/weaknesses to achieve success.
      Gamer. Streamer. Photographer. Writer. Anime Lover. Possessor of Stuffed Animals.

      Also... I'm terrible at this game.
    • I'll answer here the same way I answered elsewhere: I actually really enjoy the difficulty. I'm enjoying having to fight tooth and claw in the Elite fights, I'm enjoying having to adjust my tactics in some of the other fights (Avatar, Sky Lightning and Witch, for example), I'm enjoying seeing new "themes" to face. I am not enjoying how constricting it is at all. I went from having a Spider-mill focused Vennen deck that could handily win in the old FRA, to having it struggle to beat the opening two tiers. Eventually I gave in and did exactly what you did: Swapped it to a Terrormill. While I can win now, like you, I've stopped playing FRA. It's not fun to have to build a certain way. I miss doing exactly what you just said: Make a silly themed deck and play with that. Even if they weren't the most competitive, they were at least fun to play with. Now, unless you're running mill, or immediate progression, you already know you're not making it to the last battle. It's taken the wind out of my sails completely.
      Never shift in to reverse without a backup plan.
    • Eraia wrote:

      Halsey wrote:

      I get that a lot of people feel like they've lost their 'sandbox', but I for one think it's great that we got a 'puzzle' that actually makes it feel like a challenge to tune a deck concept enough to do well with it.
      My only real problem with the 'puzzle' is that it's tuned too strongly against certain archetypes with no option for strategic diversity within.
      Why does mill get a prettymuch free pass(with the only 'anti mill' deck still being beatable by mill if you do it in a single turn) while burn decks have field medic to contend with, for example? The different in the severity of the counters is a problem. Whether you're okay with the hard counters or not, it's a problem to have SOME strategies/card types/etc. hard countered while others are soft countered. That is, unless we have more strategy at our disposal.

      I think the puzzle would be more fun if the player had more strategic tools to work with. Which is why I feel that a 'multiple decks' approach is best. Let us bring a few different decks so we can really create a team of decks that works with each others' strengths/weaknesses to achieve success.
      FYI cheese is now completely unmillable.
    • SaintVicarious wrote:

      I'll answer here the same way I answered elsewhere: I actually really enjoy the difficulty. I'm enjoying having to fight tooth and claw in the Elite fights, I'm enjoying having to adjust my tactics in some of the other fights (Avatar, Sky Lightning and Witch, for example), I'm enjoying seeing new "themes" to face. I am not enjoying how constricting it is at all. I went from having a Spider-mill focused Vennen deck that could handily win in the old FRA, to having it struggle to beat the opening two tiers. Eventually I gave in and did exactly what you did: Swapped it to a Terrormill. While I can win now, like you, I've stopped playing FRA. It's not fun to have to build a certain way. I miss doing exactly what you just said: Make a silly themed deck and play with that. Even if they weren't the most competitive, they were at least fun to play with. Now, unless you're running mill, or immediate progression, you already know you're not making it to the last battle. It's taken the wind out of my sails completely.
      I have been running semi-budget terrormill for some time, just to see what Arena can drop. It is indeed not easy to account for all bosses and it is especially difficult for those without the best cards. I swapped in Contract Killing and Morphology to have better chances against the Elite encounters, but that diluted the milling power so a different strategy is needed for normal fights. It is an interesting way to play, but the rewards are quite poor compared to playing campaign normally - little gold, mostly the same cards, but too many possible equipment drops (and most of them have little trade value since the people who wanted them should have gotten them already if the cards are from previous sets)
    • Has anyone mentioned that Periwinkle is a pretty much unwinnable matchup as a boss? I've played against peri 8 or 9 times now. They can get 5 resources on turn 2 with creatures in play and then almost always cast genisis pool hydra, doubled, or the big chompasorus thing, and your dead. Every stinking time. No deck can race that, even having extinction on 4 won't beat that.

      This encounter needs to SERIOUSLY be reevaluated. It is easily as stupid as the socket champ matchup is in FRA and just a loss every time you face it.
    • Arkansaw wrote:

      I have been running semi-budget terrormill for some time, just to see what Arena can drop. It is indeed not easy to account for all bosses and it is especially difficult for those without the best cards. I swapped in Contract Killing and Morphology to have better chances against the Elite encounters, but that diluted the milling power so a different strategy is needed for normal fights. It is an interesting way to play, but the rewards are quite poor compared to playing campaign normally - little gold, mostly the same cards, but too many possible equipment drops (and most of them have little trade value since the people who wanted them should have gotten them already if the cards are from previous sets)
      Yep. And I think that's kind've the biggest sin the game commits: You can't do stupid, fun decks, because you have to design one deck that can account for a few different hate decks, multiple opponent types and be able to compete against Elites. I saw someone recommend a three-man team, with each member having one life. I liked that suggestion, as it'll help ease up on the limitation aspect currently plaguing FRA.

      Gravitygroove wrote:

      Has anyone mentioned that Periwinkle is a pretty much unwinnable matchup as a boss? I've played against peri 8 or 9 times now. They can get 5 resources on turn 2 with creatures in play and then almost always cast genisis pool hydra, doubled, or the big chompasorus thing, and your dead. Every stinking time. No deck can race that, even having extinction on 4 won't beat that.

      This encounter needs to SERIOUSLY be reevaluated. It is easily as stupid as the socket champ matchup is in FRA and just a loss every time you face it.
      Terrormill can beat Periwinkle, especially if you get a good opening hand. That said, you're absolutely at the mercy of RNG. And I also despise the fact that you basically must play it in order to beat him, as he'll simply steamroll any other deck.

      The Avatar (Socket champ) on the other hand is much easier to deal with. I don't think I've lost to him yet.
      Never shift in to reverse without a backup plan.
    • SaintVicarious wrote:

      Arkansaw wrote:

      I have been running semi-budget terrormill for some time, just to see what Arena can drop. It is indeed not easy to account for all bosses and it is especially difficult for those without the best cards. I swapped in Contract Killing and Morphology to have better chances against the Elite encounters, but that diluted the milling power so a different strategy is needed for normal fights. It is an interesting way to play, but the rewards are quite poor compared to playing campaign normally - little gold, mostly the same cards, but too many possible equipment drops (and most of them have little trade value since the people who wanted them should have gotten them already if the cards are from previous sets)
      Yep. And I think that's kind've the biggest sin the game commits: You can't do stupid, fun decks, because you have to design one deck that can account for a few different hate decks, multiple opponent types and be able to compete against Elites. I saw someone recommend a three-man team, with each member having one life. I liked that suggestion, as it'll help ease up on the limitation aspect currently plaguing FRA.

      Gravitygroove wrote:

      Has anyone mentioned that Periwinkle is a pretty much unwinnable matchup as a boss? I've played against peri 8 or 9 times now. They can get 5 resources on turn 2 with creatures in play and then almost always cast genisis pool hydra, doubled, or the big chompasorus thing, and your dead. Every stinking time. No deck can race that, even having extinction on 4 won't beat that.

      This encounter needs to SERIOUSLY be reevaluated. It is easily as stupid as the socket champ matchup is in FRA and just a loss every time you face it.
      Terrormill can beat Periwinkle, especially if you get a good opening hand. That said, you're absolutely at the mercy of RNG. And I also despise the fact that you basically must play it in order to beat him, as he'll simply steamroll any other deck.
      The Avatar (Socket champ) on the other hand is much easier to deal with. I don't think I've lost to him yet.
      if you just want to play stupid fun decks play campaign. frost ring arena is currently the closes thing we have to end game content, it should take well tested decks to do well in it. Terrormill does it best right now but plenty of decks can complete the arena right now.
    • New

      SaintVicarious wrote:

      .Terrormill can beat Periwinkle, especially if you get a good opening hand. That said, you're absolutely at the mercy of RNG. And I also despise the fact that you basically must play it in order to beat him, as he'll simply steamroll any other deck.
      The Avatar (Socket champ) on the other hand is much easier to deal with. I don't think I've lost to him yet.
      Periwinkle can be brutal, but she is in no way unbeatable by other decks. Please stop spreading unnecessary panic.
      Joke is a very serious thing.
    • New

      Sukebe wrote:

      if you just want to play stupid fun decks play campaign. frost ring arena is currently the closes thing we have to end game content, it should take well tested decks to do well in it. Terrormill does it best right now but plenty of decks can complete the arena right now.
      Translated: I don't care if you want to have FUN playing your stupid decks and don't just want a static experience over and over again, I've got what I want so you don't matter.
      Gamer. Streamer. Photographer. Writer. Anime Lover. Possessor of Stuffed Animals.

      Also... I'm terrible at this game.
    • New

      Sukebe wrote:

      if you just want to play stupid fun decks play campaign. frost ring arena is currently the closes thing we have to end game content, it should take well tested decks to do well in it. Terrormill does it best right now but plenty of decks can complete the arena right now.
      I prefered old FRA for stupid fun decks because in campaign you need to concern yourself with mercs, abilities and shard grids. I often don't want to do that.

      I'm having fun with new FRA Terrormilling the crap out of it, but on the old one I could grab my random old non-optimal/themed decks and give them a go just for the *fun* of it. I'd like to be able to do both of these things, not just one.
    • New

      Eraia wrote:

      Sukebe wrote:

      if you just want to play stupid fun decks play campaign. frost ring arena is currently the closes thing we have to end game content, it should take well tested decks to do well in it. Terrormill does it best right now but plenty of decks can complete the arena right now.
      Translated: I don't care if you want to have FUN playing your stupid decks and don't just want a static experience over and over again, I've got what I want so you don't matter.
      I am saying that if all you want to do is play fun random decks you already have a way to do that. However FRA is the only difficult thing we have right now.

      Not to mention, people have said they play fun decks in the arena even now, they just accept that they may not win and enjoy it anyway. So if you have to play random untested/unfocused decks AND win your games the campaign is perfect for you. There is no way the FRA can be both challenging and allow as many decks to succeed as the campaign does...it just isn't possible.

      And yet again: many decks can beat the FRA right now. Sure several decks have hard counter opponents in the arena but that does not invalidate them from the arena as a whole.

      Stop acting like you are being attacked or ignored (as that is what it seems you are constantly doing). Just because we don't agree with you does not mean we don't care at all or are elitist. It just means we disagree on what makes something good and enjoyable.

      TLDR : don't translate other peoples words, you are completely wrong about what I said.
    • New

      Considering that even a typical terrormill deck cannot get consistent perfect runs, the arena can use better rewards given the challenge. For the budget player looking to get upgrades from the arena, there is no incentive to try other decks if they perform worse than terrormill, and the gold yield is worse than playing through campaign normally. 6k gold per run, bunch of repeated cards, mostly unsellable gear. Something is not right when rewards from the arena help very little with the arena itself (except for that one card for terrormill)
    • New

      There are some things I like about the new arena, but there are more things that I do not.

      I do like that the difficulty increased, but I feel that it increased too much. Like others, my good and fun decks are now junk. Which is a shame because I really want to play them in the new arena. I don't like that the spike in difficulty doesn't allow us to play anything except tier 1 god decks and I fail to see the reasoning behind this. It's far too limiting and allows for a small number of viable decks to be played.

      I don't like the payouts. I don't think the gold comes even close to the difficulty that we have to face. If you make it all the way and beat the final boss, then it's good, but anything short of that yields very little comparatively. You can make it most of the way thru before dying horribly but end up with just a smidgen of gold for your troubles. Getting legendary equips is far too rare. Even after this much time you can't ever find some of the stuff in the AH.

      I really like that there is a whole bunch of new Champs to face, but again, the difficulty. Getting repeatedly face-planted doesn't leave me wanting more. The way that some of these guys go off is ridiculous. I can't imagine what it must be like for new players, they're just screwed.

      I utterly do not like the challenges. Closed Coffins? (Head slap). This card is a banned in PVE but yet our opponents get to abuse us with it? This card screws me off every time. Instead of these kind of challenges, I would much rather have something global that affects both sides equally and not something that gives an insane advantage to the AI, probably an Elite, who certainly didn't need it to begin with. Why can't it be something that's potentially bad or good for both players? Things like - 'All troops get ...' or 'All players have ...' That would make for a more engaging fight instead of feeling like you're just getting jacked. The challenges are definitely the thing I like the least about the new place.

      So, what's the best solution to all of this?

      The best thing that I can think of is to have several arenas each with a different difficulty level and different payouts for each. Maybe something like Easy, Normal, and Ball-busting. This would allow us to play our fun, good, and godly decks with appropriate rewards. It also gives each of us the freedom to decide if we want to play casually, or if you're someone who likes getting kicked in the face, there's an arena for that too. Oh, and remake the challenges.

      Overall, I'm not enjoying FRA 2, and the Arena is where I would rather play.

      The post was edited 9 times, last by Spit: terrible spelling, shameful grammar, the usual.. ().

    • New

      Verdant wrote:

      SaintVicarious wrote:

      .Terrormill can beat Periwinkle, especially if you get a good opening hand. That said, you're absolutely at the mercy of RNG. And I also despise the fact that you basically must play it in order to beat him, as he'll simply steamroll any other deck.
      The Avatar (Socket champ) on the other hand is much easier to deal with. I don't think I've lost to him yet.
      Periwinkle can be brutal, but she is in no way unbeatable by other decks. Please stop spreading unnecessary panic.
      Are you high or just bragging? Post video of periwinkle or Peri Elite matches with something other then mill in the FRA that wins easily.
    • New

      Gravitygroove wrote:

      Verdant wrote:

      SaintVicarious wrote:

      .Terrormill can beat Periwinkle, especially if you get a good opening hand. That said, you're absolutely at the mercy of RNG. And I also despise the fact that you basically must play it in order to beat him, as he'll simply steamroll any other deck.
      The Avatar (Socket champ) on the other hand is much easier to deal with. I don't think I've lost to him yet.
      Periwinkle can be brutal, but she is in no way unbeatable by other decks. Please stop spreading unnecessary panic.
      Are you high or just bragging? Post video of periwinkle or Peri Elite matches with something other then mill in the FRA that wins easily.
      I won most of the time with my Easter Egg deck. The only lost I have is when I am on a bad start and she hits Voice of the Ashwood for the win. I do have an Imgur with my run result and you can look at Periwinkle's icon on them to see I am not lying. The key to Periwinkle is to deny all the ramp if possible, especially Voice of the Ashwood.
    • New

      Sukebe wrote:

      I am saying that if all you want to do is play fun random decks you already have a way to do that
      If soemone wants to play 'fun random' stuff why would you think they'd want a static experience to do it in? I'm curious as to what would lead you to think that someone who enjoys the creativity of coming up with crazy stuff would simultaneously appreciate having no variety in their opponents? It just seems illogical to assume that.
      Gamer. Streamer. Photographer. Writer. Anime Lover. Possessor of Stuffed Animals.

      Also... I'm terrible at this game.
    • New

      Sukebe wrote:

      if you just want to play stupid fun decks play campaign. frost ring arena is currently the closes thing we have to end game content, it should take well tested decks to do well in it. Terrormill does it best right now but plenty of decks can complete the arena right now.
      Right, except the campaign is specifically set up with hate decks, and is a completely static experience. And having one deck have to account for multiple hate decks means almost everybody's decks look the same. It's dull.

      Eraia wrote:

      Translated: I don't care if you want to have FUN playing your stupid decks and don't just want a static experience over and over again, I've got what I want so you don't matter.
      Pretty much.

      Skirovik wrote:

      I do like the idea of having 2 versions of the FRA. One as a sandbox with normal rewards and then the current FRA "2.0" hardmode with better rewards (similar to now but with a touch more gold).
      I'd even be fine with that. Give these "elite gamerz" something to stroke their egos to, without ruining it for the majority of players.

      Amatyr wrote:

      I prefered old FRA for stupid fun decks because in campaign you need to concern yourself with mercs, abilities and shard grids. I often don't want to do that.
      I'm having fun with new FRA Terrormilling the crap out of it, but on the old one I could grab my random old non-optimal/themed decks and give them a go just for the *fun* of it. I'd like to be able to do both of these things, not just one.
      Yeah. I used to run a Spider-mill Vennen deck and be fine (That was my jam), and I even managed to eke out the odd win with themed decks. But now, I'm basically stuck at Terrormill or nothing, and it sucks.

      Sukebe wrote:

      I am saying that if all you want to do is play fun random decks you already have a way to do that. However FRA is the only difficult thing we have right now.
      Not to mention, people have said they play fun decks in the arena even now, they just accept that they may not win and enjoy it anyway. So if you have to play random untested/unfocused decks AND win your games the campaign is perfect for you. There is no way the FRA can be both challenging and allow as many decks to succeed as the campaign does...it just isn't possible.

      And yet again: many decks can beat the FRA right now. Sure several decks have hard counter opponents in the arena but that does not invalidate them from the arena as a whole.

      Stop acting like you are being attacked or ignored (as that is what it seems you are constantly doing). Just because we don't agree with you does not mean we don't care at all or are elitist. It just means we disagree on what makes something good and enjoyable.

      TLDR : don't translate other peoples words, you are completely wrong about what I said.
      Except as others have pointed out about four times now, that's patently untrue. The campaign is absolutely teeming with hate decks, and on top of that, is a completely static experience.

      And as was pointed out in the other thread about this exact topic, those decks basically boil down to Terrormill or Gambit, with some claiming their aggression decks are consistent. Two strategies, with the possibility of a third is not an improvement over the previous system.

      The thing is, only two possibilities exist to continue to want an exclusively restricted FRA: You either don't care about others, or are Elitest. If you want a hard more, awesome, ask them to leave in a hardmode. But saying to those who don't want to have to run one of two decks "suck it up, go play something else" by its very nature is either apathetic or condescending.
      Never shift in to reverse without a backup plan.
    • New

      Sukebe wrote:

      SaintVicarious wrote:

      Arkansaw wrote:

      I have been running semi-budget terrormill for some time, just to see what Arena can drop. It is indeed not easy to account for all bosses and it is especially difficult for those without the best cards. I swapped in Contract Killing and Morphology to have better chances against the Elite encounters, but that diluted the milling power so a different strategy is needed for normal fights. It is an interesting way to play, but the rewards are quite poor compared to playing campaign normally - little gold, mostly the same cards, but too many possible equipment drops (and most of them have little trade value since the people who wanted them should have gotten them already if the cards are from previous sets)
      Yep. And I think that's kind've the biggest sin the game commits: You can't do stupid, fun decks, because you have to design one deck that can account for a few different hate decks, multiple opponent types and be able to compete against Elites. I saw someone recommend a three-man team, with each member having one life. I liked that suggestion, as it'll help ease up on the limitation aspect currently plaguing FRA.

      Gravitygroove wrote:

      Has anyone mentioned that Periwinkle is a pretty much unwinnable matchup as a boss? I've played against peri 8 or 9 times now. They can get 5 resources on turn 2 with creatures in play and then almost always cast genisis pool hydra, doubled, or the big chompasorus thing, and your dead. Every stinking time. No deck can race that, even having extinction on 4 won't beat that.

      This encounter needs to SERIOUSLY be reevaluated. It is easily as stupid as the socket champ matchup is in FRA and just a loss every time you face it.
      Terrormill can beat Periwinkle, especially if you get a good opening hand. That said, you're absolutely at the mercy of RNG. And I also despise the fact that you basically must play it in order to beat him, as he'll simply steamroll any other deck.The Avatar (Socket champ) on the other hand is much easier to deal with. I don't think I've lost to him yet.
      if you just want to play stupid fun decks play campaign. frost ring arena is currently the closes thing we have to end game content, it should take well tested decks to do well in it. Terrormill does it best right now but plenty of decks can complete the arena right now.
      Except you can't unless you want to be pidgeonholed into playing an inferior version of your deck or playing one of a couple Mercs that actually get a full shard grid. You can get away with playing goofier and even tuned decks, but it's not the same as building whatever you want.