Feedback/suggestions for inevitable Phenteo's Gift adjustment

    • Corvus wrote:

      I don't think Phenteo's Gift is the heart of the mill element (Spiraling End seems to me to be what makes milling a reality), but it's what enables an easy "kill everything while you set milling in motion" element - it would seem a long step down from Phenteo's Gift to say relying 100% on Spirit of Retribution or Extinction.

      Though I can't say I've tried playing the current mill style without Terror Tined Tunic for science, to see if it really makes a huge difference.
      I agree. Mill is already degenerate. Spiraling End is the Intercontinental Champion of mill. It's broken when used by AI, it's MORE broken in the hands of players.
    • Spiralling End is too slow. Half the games I play with Terrormill I've already won by turn 3 with a blood + sapphire threshold (either literally or figuratively, ie by having several terrorantulas in play against an enemy with limited board wiping capabilities).

      And yes, I fully expect Spirit of Retribution to add a threshold requirement to its equipment, but frankly that doesn't actually matter to Terrormill. It has about the same win rate with or without them.
    • I want to start by asking this:

      Is there really any point in using spiderling in decks with/without terrorspiders? Asides that do you ever even include cards which create normal eggs to opponents deck? I want your thoughts on this.


      I like all of the @Corvus suggestions except for the 3rd one and @KozHex card changes suggestion.

      Personally I despise Phenteo's Gift a lot. It usually leaves me feeling "sigh, this card is stupid" in a very negative way and I don't want to use it. I wish that the card and the chest equipment would be seriously nerfed (increase cost, hinder the recursion effect like in the Corvus's 4th suggestion or getting rid of it) so that the card would be brought on the line. I feel that normal spiderlings are massively overshadowed in PvE because how good Phenteo's Gifts and Terrorspiders are and I wish by making changes to Phenteo's Gift would drive bit away from the terrormill meta and give room to spiderlings. I will admit though that this is probably bit naive of me.

      But nonethless I would really like to see some changes on Phenteo's Gift and to the chest equipment.
    • Airtron wrote:

      Phenteo's Gift is not a problem card because it does not allow kills turn 3 or lower by itself consistently. The cards like Enter the Dream, Xocoy, Slaughtergears and The Crowd Roars were nerfed because they provided consistent super early kills. Phenteo's Gift is not one of those cards.

      Zurai wrote:

      Spiralling End is too slow. Half the games I play with Terrormill I've already won by turn 3 with a blood + sapphire threshold (either literally or figuratively, ie by having several terrorantulas in play against an enemy with limited board wiping capabilities).

      And yes, I fully expect Spirit of Retribution to add a threshold requirement to its equipment, but frankly that doesn't actually matter to Terrormill. It has about the same win rate with or without them.
      And the other half of games you haven't won you win by dropping Spiraling End...it's not too slow and it's extremely effective and wins games all by itself. Please post the deck that wins by turn 3 that does so with milling and/or spiders, I've heard about it but yet to see it posted.
    • TheBlackCrypt wrote:

      And the other half of games you haven't won you win by dropping Spiraling End...it's not too slow and it's extremely effective and wins games all by itself. Please post the deck that wins by turn 3 that does so with milling and/or spiders, I've heard about it but yet to see it posted.
      The other half of games are already well on the road to winning (dominant board position, etc) or have lost/are going to lose (playing against an elite with a board full of 5/5s and haven't even seen a Phenteo's Gift yet). Spiraling End is a win-more card, and given the general speed of the most troublesome encounters in the FRA it's too expensive for that purpose.

      As for the deck, I run this deck except the Chaotic Murmurs are replaced with Spirits of Retribution. It doesn't usually literally win on turn 3 (though it definitely can), but it is usually in a situation where the game is in the bag at that point.
    • Talekith wrote:

      Is there really any point in using spiderling in decks with/without terrorspiders? Asides that do you ever even include cards which create normal eggs to opponents deck? I want your thoughts on this.
      Only if you're doing so incidentally. It's fine to run Azure Fang Decree and Lunacy for the bury and Tribunal Magistrate for defence, but cards that just create small spiderling eggs are not good enough. With enough Magistrates, you could try removing using Terrorantulas, I suppose and win with damage before they kill you, but the fact that Terrorantulas destroy target troop when they enter play is really good.

      Talekith wrote:

      Personally I despise Phenteo's Gift a lot. It usually leaves me feeling "sigh, this card is stupid" in a very negative way and I don't want to use it. I wish that the card and the chest equipment would be seriously nerfed (increase cost, hinder the recursion effect like in the Corvus's 4th suggestion or getting rid of it) so that the card would be brought on the line.
      "I don't like X and I don't want it to be good for others either" is getting old. Phenteo's Gift is not OP like Dream/Slaughtergear/TCR. Some times terrormill doesn't even make use of it to win (you can reasonably just bury the opponent). It's just what we have left after the latter's changes. Are you gonna complain about every strategic that is more efficient than what you enjoy playing?
    • Vroengard wrote:

      Only if you're doing so incidentally. It's fine to run Azure Fang Decree and Lunacy for the bury and Tribunal Magistrate for defence, but cards that just create small spiderling eggs are not good enough. With enough Magistrates, you could try removing using Terrorantulas, I suppose and win with damage before they kill you, but the fact that Terrorantulas destroy target troop when they enter play is really good.
      "I don't like X and I don't want it to be good for others either" is getting old. Phenteo's Gift is not OP like Dream/Slaughtergear/TCR. Some times terrormill doesn't even make use of it to win (you can reasonably just bury the opponent). It's just what we have left after the latter's changes. Are you gonna complain about every strategic that is more efficient than what you enjoy playing?
      I think I would be okay with the Slaughtergear and and Crowd Roars decks even before the nerfs as I have no idea how those even work.

      But on the terrormill side Terrorantulas just make spiderlings obsolete in a way that there just doesn't seem to be any spider decks without Phenteo's Gift because indeed it is super cost efficient, repeatable and the troop which the egg creates is immensely powerful and thus the card is yli-powerful. I guess you could look at Brood Bounty but alas that is only a meager pvp card. Still the power disparity is funny.

      Also as we've seen in the new FRA related threads how people have commented that terrormilling is apparently the only efficient strategy out there and that is bit silly too.
    • Talekith wrote:

      I think I would be okay with the Slaughtergear and and Crowd Roars decks even before the nerfs as I have no idea how those even work.
      But on the terrormill side Terrorantulas just make spiderlings obsolete in a way that there just doesn't seem to be any spider decks without Phenteo's Gift because indeed it is super cost efficient, repeatable and the troop which the egg creates is immensely powerful and thus the card is yli-powerful. I guess you could look at Brood Bounty but alas that is only a meager pvp card. Still the power disparity is funny.

      Also as we've seen in the new FRA related threads how people have commented that terrormilling is apparently the only efficient strategy out there and that is bit silly too.
      Phenteo's Gift doesn't make spiderlings obsolete. Spiderlings make spiderlings obsolete. It's a set 3 mechanics that was underwhelming even during its prime. There's a reason why only a couple of decks featuring spiderlings were relevant, not to mention that all of them were centered around respective legendaries (Phenteo and Xentoth's Malice).

      If Phenteo's Gift gets nerfed - which is a very big if, - mill decks won't suddenly shift to a lot of spider generation outside of occasional AFD. If anything, they are likely to become more focused mill builds.
      Joke is a very serious thing.
    • Verdant wrote:

      Phenteo's Gift doesn't make spiderlings obsolete. Spiderlings make spiderlings obsolete. It's a set 3 mechanics that was underwhelming even during its prime. There's a reason why only a couple of decks featuring spiderlings were relevant, not to mention that all of them were centered around respective legendaries (Phenteo and Xentoth's Malice).
      If Phenteo's Gift gets nerfed - which is a very big if, - mill decks won't suddenly shift to a lot of spider generation outside of occasional AFD. If anything, they are likely to become more focused mill builds.
      Okay so basicly spiderlings have always been baddish? Wasn't playing this game during that time so I didn't even have knowledge of this.
    • Tribunal Magistrate and Zilth might be able to hold off Archon with enough spiders, but right now I feel it is better to negate AI starting troop with Contract Killing or Morphology. Gift alone is just not reliable enough even with very strong milling.
      "Winning with terrormill is not fun? Try losing with it"
    • I don't think phenteo's gift is a problem card.Having key cards nerfed with each patch isn't fun or good strategy.PVE shouldn't be about spitting blood to get measly 10000 gold for 45 minutes or more of play.I'm not even sure the slaughtergear or crowd roars were needed as they made them close to useless considering the power levels of the new arena.Phenteo's gift still requires to hit the spiders in the opponent's deck and if not some arena encounters will beat you on turns 3 and 4.Botanist and archon run
      other phenteo's gift decks,avalanche giant will beat easily with bad draws,the conscript champion can also brutalize phenteo's gift.

      If they want PVE to be hard prizes should be increased and even so with constant nerfing even those will not be worth much as
      no one wants to buy cards that will drop in price.Is this an arms race now?Did hex ent become the fun police?They nerf,players find strong deck again,they nerf again until the only deck remaining is with 2/3 vanilla cards?

      The results of the ethereal healer nerf caused me to stop playing with the character and mercs that were using them,not using the slaughtergear post nerf again because it's not enough to be used in the tough content,same is true for crowd roars.Every nerf should have really good reason for as it takes away from the tools the collection drops in value in a big surprise showing no consideration of the players collection value.How many plat value was lost over one patch with crowd roars and slaughtergear if a player had a playset?10k?20k?

      PVE is supposed to be about fun and strong decks with stuff you can't do in PVP,not to be perfectly balanced.The pve when done a lot to get the best prizes the same content has to be done repeatedly and gold is already way too expensive and rare and 99% of the time you can't even find someone to sell gold.If hex ent wants arena to be hard to take 2 hours to clear with 75% failure rate they will lose players.It's already hard enough as it is and requires highly tuned and specialized decks.

      Another reason except balance is the value of gold, which is rare and expensive enough considering that chest spinning and chark mart already require huge amount of gold and hard enough to buy from other players since it's not farmed fast enough and there more demand then supply.
    • Talekith wrote:

      Verdant wrote:

      Phenteo's Gift doesn't make spiderlings obsolete. Spiderlings make spiderlings obsolete. It's a set 3 mechanics that was underwhelming even during its prime. There's a reason why only a couple of decks featuring spiderlings were relevant, not to mention that all of them were centered around respective legendaries (Phenteo and Xentoth's Malice).
      If Phenteo's Gift gets nerfed - which is a very big if, - mill decks won't suddenly shift to a lot of spider generation outside of occasional AFD. If anything, they are likely to become more focused mill builds.
      Okay so basicly spiderlings have always been baddish? Wasn't playing this game during that time so I didn't even have knowledge of this.
      No, a full PvE Spiderlings deck can be pretty powerful. Of course, there was a massive nerf to the Eremite equip that seriously hurt the deck in the past, so it's not going to ever reach quite the same levels. Constructed full focus Spiderling decks were never great, but it was a fine strategy in limited and PvE. Eremite + Psychic Torment being the go to draft strategy. You can still run a more Spiderlingy version of Terrormill if you want, too - Zin'xith Silk, Hatchery Malvoker, you know. You can pretty much put whatever you want in the Phenteo's Gift mill decks and it can work pretty well.
    • Showsni wrote:

      Talekith wrote:

      Verdant wrote:

      Phenteo's Gift doesn't make spiderlings obsolete. Spiderlings make spiderlings obsolete. It's a set 3 mechanics that was underwhelming even during its prime. There's a reason why only a couple of decks featuring spiderlings were relevant, not to mention that all of them were centered around respective legendaries (Phenteo and Xentoth's Malice).
      If Phenteo's Gift gets nerfed - which is a very big if, - mill decks won't suddenly shift to a lot of spider generation outside of occasional AFD. If anything, they are likely to become more focused mill builds.
      Okay so basicly spiderlings have always been baddish? Wasn't playing this game during that time so I didn't even have knowledge of this.
      No, a full PvE Spiderlings deck can be pretty powerful. Of course, there was a massive nerf to the Eremite equip that seriously hurt the deck in the past, so it's not going to ever reach quite the same levels. Constructed full focus Spiderling decks were never great, but it was a fine strategy in limited and PvE. Eremite + Psychic Torment being the go to draft strategy. You can still run a more Spiderlingy version of Terrormill if you want, too - Zin'xith Silk, Hatchery Malvoker, you know. You can pretty much put whatever you want in the Phenteo's Gift mill decks and it can work pretty well.
      What I'm currently using: hex.tcgbrowser.com/#!/deck=bdc0a77e3c76e47e3b374212d0cb4545

      I'm currently lacking a bit on the milling side on that deck but once I start getting Set 7 cards in my collection and when we get more character slots so I can make more vennen characters for the lookouts then I should be fine.

      But yeah that deck pretty much resolves around blessings + malvokers to get the deck size to 90-110 and then just unleashing the fury with eremite + psychic torment. What I've bee troubling with is that is Azure Fang Hierarch a good card or a bad card. Not sure if it's providing me with really anything. One solution would be just to swap them with Chaotic Murmurs.