Asynch draft experience results

    • Pandaemonium wrote:

      It is pretty basic and does not need a thesis statement. Hate drafting is not rewarded as much making the mediocore cards even worse then what they were.
      But cards from mediocre archetypes stay in the packs longer (simply by virtue of not being part of a top archetype) and therefore there would be more opportunities to hatedraft them. It seems like hate drafting not being rewarded as much (it still is rewarded) should help the lower tier archetypes more than the higher tier archetypes.
    • Steric wrote:

      Pandaemonium wrote:

      It is pretty basic and does not need a thesis statement. Hate drafting is not rewarded as much making the mediocore cards even worse then what they were.
      But cards from mediocre archetypes would stay in the packs longer and therefore there would be more opportunities to hatedraft them. It seems like hate drafting not being rewarded as much (it still is rewarded) should help the lower tier archetypes more than the higher tier archetypes.
      That is not my experience, I see godly decks as Goliathus mentioned. Granted I just draft once a week now. We are not talking about hate drafting mediocore cards. We are talking about hate drafting bombs or near bombs.

      Bombs are not being hate drafted like they used to be. Making any imbalance in the cards even worse.

      As bad as it sounds the people who drop make the problem worse. This is because they may not be drating decent decks.
    • Pandaemonium wrote:

      That is not my experience, I see godly decks as Goliathus mentioned. Granted I just draft once a week now. We are not talking about hate drafting mediocore cards. We are talking about hate drafting bombs or near bombs.
      Bombs are not being hate drafted like they used to be. Making any imbalance in the cards even worse.

      As bad as it sounds the people who drop make the problem worse. This is because they may not be drating decent decks.
      This is basically my experience as well and shared among my friends.
    • Pandaemonium wrote:

      Steric wrote:

      Pandaemonium wrote:

      It is pretty basic and does not need a thesis statement. Hate drafting is not rewarded as much making the mediocore cards even worse then what they were.
      But cards from mediocre archetypes would stay in the packs longer and therefore there would be more opportunities to hatedraft them. It seems like hate drafting not being rewarded as much (it still is rewarded) should help the lower tier archetypes more than the higher tier archetypes.
      That is not my experience, I see godly decks as Goliathus mentioned. Granted I just draft once a week now. We are not talking about hate drafting mediocore cards. We are talking about hate drafting bombs or near bombs.


      Bombs are not being hate drafted like they used to be. Making any imbalance in the cards even worse.



      As bad as it sounds the people who drop make the problem worse. This is because they may not be drating decent decks.


      And some cards are bombs in specific non-tier 1 limited archetypes. Since they're bombs for non-tier 1 limited archetypes, they would, on average, stay in packs longer than bombs in tier 1 archetypes simply since there are fewer people drafting that archetype. Therefore, these are the cards that would be more likely to be hatedrafted as opposed to being picked up by someone that wanted them. This helps the non-tier 1 archetypes more than the tier 1 archetypes.

      So now you're talking about imbalances in cards not imbalances in archetypes? Those are two completely different things.

      The fact that peopled dropped in pod draft does make the problem appear worse as well, since in pod draft, players can get byes, meaning that weaker decks can reach 2-0 more regularly. With the gauntlet system, there are no byes, so there are fewer 2-0 decks that got there by getting lucky as opposed to being strong decks. This results, not in more of the super charged draft decks, but in you seeing them more because you're seeing fewer of the mediocre ones because those mediocre ones are no longer getting byes.
    • Edit. Misread what you said. I think it generates packs not people

      Don't think it's any different then when you open packs in hex. They are generated 32x in the Pod just you pass an opened one where here it's generated. Don't know all the specifics of their system. Think if it like HS.
    • reddit.com/r/EternalCardGame/c…s/5fv27k/draft_mechanics/

      The first response explains it pretty well. Which includes the following link.

      reddit.com/r/EternalCardGame/c…drafting_works_explained/

      As an avid Eternal player, the response to the draft format is overwhelmingly positive, and I agree 100%. I truly hope the Hex devs are aware of such a structure and have at least considered doing something similar. The rewards don't line up, but this selection format can easily be used to replace the current draft gauntlet and can definitely compliment/coincide with the old Comp Draft format.
    • MealyMouth wrote:

      reddit.com/r/EternalCardGame/c…s/5fv27k/draft_mechanics/

      The first response explains it pretty well. Which includes the following link.

      reddit.com/r/EternalCardGame/c…drafting_works_explained/

      As an avid Eternal player, the response to the draft format is overwhelmingly positive, and I agree 100%. I truly hope the Hex devs are aware of such a structure and have at least considered doing something similar. The rewards don't line up, but this selection format can easily be used to replace the current draft gauntlet and can definitely compliment/coincide with the old Comp Draft format.
      Ah, that system makes a lot of sense. It's a shame that this format completely gets rid of the concept of sending signals, which I feel is a very significant feature of drafts, but being completely asynchronous is certainly a significant advantage.

      Hate drafting is even less significant in this format than in asynch draft, so it's basically the same as sealed. /s
    • Steric wrote:

      The fact that peopled dropped in pod draft does make the problem appear worse as well, since in pod draft, players can get byes, meaning that weaker decks can reach 2-0 more regularly. With the gauntlet system, there are no byes, so there are fewer 2-0 decks that got there by getting lucky as opposed to being strong decks. This results, not in more of the super charged draft decks, but in you seeing them more because you're seeing fewer of the mediocre ones because those mediocre ones are no longer getting byes.
      Nonsense. In a "normal" gaming enviornment, everyone needs to pay for their entry to draft. So, if someone drops, they still paid the entry, thus providing the tournament with rewards (doesn't matter if someone gets bye). Problem is lifelong draft tickets hex give. There comes in DG, removing that "free booster packs" they were giving in the draft.

      There is too much nonsense in this thread it is getting funny.
      The difference between pod drafting and DG can be seen from miles. As much as I love playing at my own pace whenever I want, I found it to be more frustrating picking a deck and then playing the next day. I often play against two matches against same colors with really good decks, and that didn't really happen in pod draft.

      And if Hex makes draft fully asynchronous, I know a lot of people that will just drop the game, myself included.

      But I just want to see set 7 DG, since playing with conscript in limited really gets frustrating after a while.
    • Steric wrote:

      Well, there's a significant bias in your own observations. Suppose, for a moment, that you simply hate draft far more often than the average player does. The end result is that the average power level of the decks in your pod are lower than the average power level of decks made in pods with players that don't hate draft as much. I think this very well may be the case, based on what you've said. In fact, you even stated that you believe that "Many players are going to cut the crap out of the third Tech-tician if they have already passed 2 even though they are not playing Dreadlings." which shows how you think people draft, which really is a statement more reflective of how you draft than how the average player drafts. I pretty much addressed this in my other post (post #85 in this thread if you want to scroll up and read it) and I feel like there is a discussion worth having. Reading and sending strong signals is rewarded more highly while hate-drafting is less rewarding because the former increases the power level of the entire pod while the latter decreases the power level of the entire pod, which wouldn't matter in pod draft, but with asynch drafting, it has a significant impact on what the winning strategies are.
      As for the "sealed-ly" feel of it, a very similar thing can happen in pod-draft simply as a result of which seat you're sitting in. Two people building the same archetype in two different seats in the same pod can end up with hugely different decks in terms of power level simply as a consequence of luck of the packs. You could get smashed by someone else from the same pod who had an amazing deck in a different archetype simply because that archetype wasn't very open where you were sitting but was quite a bit more open where they were sitting. In the old pod draft reward system, if you lost your first game you were out and you got absolutely nothing. With the gauntlet system, you still have a chance of getting 2 packs even if you lose your first match.
      I am not going to call my own doing "observation". Observation is what I see on other players more than just myself. I see some streams, far less than some people who had logged hundreds and even thousands of hours on the streamer-bot's record but I do watch some of them, and people can feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but I see a lot of the limited-oriented streamers cut far more than I do. I saw InfamousNeo hardcutting ruby after seeing too many good ruby cards get passed(he still do now even in async because he is to play immediately and might matched with players from the same pod, makes perfect sense). I saw Alucard not picking mediocre cards on his color when he has enough cards already and just cut bombs of other colors in say, pick 6 of pack 2, while I believe most people would pick cards from their color in async draft in such early pick. I forgot who but I remembered a streamer said "I passed a Baby Yeti; if I see a Mama, I am going to cut that". I even saw Hacky overcutting one time and ended up with a mediocre deck himself. This is not dissing Hacky at all, who is a very good player no doubt, I just remember that draft better because it's funny. As for myself, I don't really cut cards in async(So if any of you see my name in draft, come join for higher chance of no-cut drafting) nowadays. If I end up with a crappy deck, I will just not queue immediately, and hope that I can get paired with other not-so-good decks hours later. Gonna adjust my strategy now that it's async, right?

      As for your second paragraph, I agree and it happened and I am fine, knowing that those are cards in the same pod. I am not going to be pissed about losing to great decks from the same pod. If I see my opponent unleashing 3 Mystic Naturalists and I have seen none, I can still think "Ah, probably on the opposite side of my table, not much I can do about it". It is when I have the best of a specific archetype of the pod and then get matched with a better deck of a specific archetype from another pod that I feel "sealed-ly". While it is the same, "I can't do much about it", but still those are cards that are not from your pod, so it's "sealed-ly". And also, things like this only happened rarely last time, now I see that kind of power level on 1-0 and above. Occasionally on the 1-1 as well.

      Edit: One more thing, reward. I find myself having more chance of making round 2 in the traditional format than 2-1 here. Now, if I am in a pod with crap cards then the chance of me going 2-1 is very small. To me, securing 2 packs certainly feel much easier last time than now and if I win 2 times(out of 2) I get 3 packs, damn! Now I have to fight so much for 2 packs. Though one thing I personally appreciate is the play time, I get to play 3 rounds no matter what(and I am the kind of guy that stick to final round of Clash with a 2-3 deck, play time is pure value to me, not so much to some others), but the current reward structure really doesn't make me happy that often aside from the occasional 3-0. And I am not that good so 3-0 only happens once in a while. And if your response is "git gud", I am not the only one who doesn't like the current reward structure, "git gud" or not.

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      Moving on, Eternal drafting. With all due respect to people who liked Eternal that read this portion, I don't want Eternal's drafting system here and I have played Eternal(I am Master #1038 on Constructed and Gold in Draft(cuz I am F2P and Draft needs money to advance barring the player in the 99th percentile of drafting ksill) currently, a proof that I have played enough to say things). I just don't want it here. Here's my view. There are a lot of games out there with Eternal's style of drafting. Among those I have played, there's Infinity Wars, Faeria, Duelyst, Spellweaver, Hearthstone...so, yeah, 95% of CCGs out there have this kind of draft mode. Hex, on the other hand, is the only digital card game with traditional(now not-so-traditional, but you get my point) drafting format and that the design team actually cares about balancing it, that is F2P. Okay, Spellweaver have booster draft now but those are timed events, their "HS-arena" mode is 24/7. The other option is MTGO, which is not F2P. It would pain me like I am hit by a X=999 Life Siphon if the current drafting format is taken out of the game. I am willing to farm 7 hours for a freaking draft here, I ain't going to do that for a draft format that is found on almost every CCGs out there.

      Also, Eternal drafting, despite the game's dev team have made an effort to balance it like giving players the chance to read signal and dictate their deck's colors. It's a crap shot sometime. I have used tracking program I got from Reddit to track the packs to check on how good the system is working. The result? Sometime it is working well and I have good decks. The other times, when I am assigned a drafter that I don't even know what the heck he is doing, or if he is drafting a five-color deck, then I get nothing from the signal and wound up with crappy deck. The system relies too much on the two previous drafters assigned to you for you to have a good deck. And sometime, drafter 1 is passing me the Hex-equivalent of Blood, Diamond and a bit of Sapphire and then drafter 2 is passing me the Hex-equivalent of Ruby, Wild and a bit of Sapphire. How the heck can I make a deck with just Blue card then?(FYI, mono-color is almost non-existent in Eternal draft, I can explain but I don't think people here would be interested) I am royally f***ed on all 4 other colors. That, to me, is completely unbalanced. In the current Hex format of drafting, 7 people influence the drafting pod all together so if it's one person is rare-drafting or drafting some weird jank, you can still grab a decent deck if the other 6 people are doing well too. That and making weird jank here is easier as well. I like Alucard and he certainly made some good dream decks in the past.

      The post was edited 4 times, last by Goliathus ().

    • Smradd wrote:

      Nonsense. In a "normal" gaming enviornment, everyone needs to pay for their entry to draft. So, if someone drops, they still paid the entry, thus providing the tournament with rewards (doesn't matter if someone gets bye). Problem is lifelong draft tickets hex give. There comes in DG, removing that "free booster packs" they were giving in the draft.
      I only brought up dropping because of how it influences the power level of the winning decks. If people are just rare-drafting and dropping or are dropping for some other reason, someone gets a bye, meaning they get a win regardless of how mediocre their deck is, making it easier for mediocre decks to end up 2-0 in pod draft. Back when Hex did have pod draft, it seemed to me like there was at least 1 drop in nearly half of the pods (I'm sure there's some data floating around that can provide some actual numbers), resulting in more byes and therefore weaker decks reaching 2-0 in draft more frequently.

      Goliathus wrote:

      Edit: One more thing, reward. I find myself having more chance of making round 2 in the traditional format than 2-1 here. Now, if I am in a pod with crap cards then the chance of me going 2-1 is very small. To me, securing 2 packs certainly feel much easier last time than now and if I win 2 times(out of 2) I get 3 packs, damn! Now I have to fight so much for 2 packs. Though one thing I personally appreciate is the play time, I get to play 3 rounds no matter what(and I am the kind of guy that stick to final round of Clash with a 2-3 deck, play time is pure value to me, not so much to some others), but the current reward structure really doesn't make me happy that often aside from the occasional 3-0. And I am not that good so 3-0 only happens once in a while. And if your response is "git gud", I am not the only one who doesn't like the current reward structure, "git gud" or not.
      Not liking the rewards and not liking asynch draft should be two separate things. The rewards could easily be changed if there was a need to change them. Yes, getting 2 packs in the current reward system requires you to win 2 out of 3 match while getting 2 packs in the old system required you to win 1 out of 1 match. If you have a 50% winrate, then those two scenarios are actually just as likely, but winning 2 out of 3 takes more work than just winning 1.
    • Steric wrote:

      Not liking the rewards and not liking asynch draft should be two separate things. The rewards could easily be changed if there was a need to change them. Yes, getting 2 packs in the current reward system requires you to win 2 out of 3 match while getting 2 packs in the old system required you to win 1 out of 1 match. If you have a 50% winrate, then those two scenarios are actually just as likely, but winning 2 out of 3 takes more work than just winning 1.
      I don't think my winrate is equal in both format. I feel like async has higher variance for a middle-of-the-road player like me. The infinite players clearly have no issue with both format - Jeff has 70% winrate and Allofya has like 15 3-0 in a row - so they are fine and seem to have the skill to navigate the bombastic landscape. For player like me, I don't know, I feel like if I don't draw my bomb or opponent draw a lot of bombs(and async have a lot more bombs than traditional) then I am dead. And I often landed on 2-1 or 1-2. 2-1 last time is 2.5 packs(assuming 50% win rate on round 2 match) and 1-2 is 1 packs(50% win rate on round 1 match) for 3.5 packs vs 2 pack + 1 random rare now, the previous reward wins for me. If we count out playtime, of course. I do appreciate play time myself as I stated above, but without the reward to sustain my time on the limited queue, I find myself having to go back to PvE more often.

      Edit: Forgot to add this, if you want my honest opinion, I am personally quite okay with async draft, I don't mind playing it but I would definitely like the traditional draft format back as I am a player who would like to play both formats. Async draft definitely gives me more play time and is quite enjoyable when I am in the mood (and has the luck to get the bombs) for a bomb vs bomb warfare. Then maybe some day, I would like the traditional experience so I go for that. So yeah, time for double format!

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Goliathus ().

    • I don't care much either way. The new draft format has grown on me, and I appreciate the flexibility. The Rare prize for getting a win also makes me happier than I expected when they announced it. I will say that waiting on a 2-0 does suck, but I don't have to worry about that too often :)
    • What this topic clearly shows is that there are mixed opinions about draft gauntlet. Although we do not have enough people that voted, it does not really matter since there is not that large number of players on this forum anyway. I guess we could argue and bicker more about benefits and negatives of either format. I am just curious for this. Is there any way that someone from Hexent could reply to this topic if there is something in near future for draft format or will it remain like this for some more time? For me it is pretty important question, since draft is my main focus in Hex since the alpha phase.