Mono saph/empress and how to make it a fair deck.

    • KotoTheMage wrote:

      To be fair, 3 mono sapphire decks made it to top 8 in CCS and only 1 of each other archtype. Just an observation.
      I'd say that this is proof that Mono Sapphire isn't a problem. There were 6 different decks that were all able to reach the top 8. Mono Sapphire isn't making it so that the successful decks are only Mono Sapphire or anti-Mono Sapphire. There's tons of different decks that can all compete.

      If the top 8 were 5 Mono-Sapphire and 3 copies of the same deck, that'd be evidence of Mono-Sapphire being an issue, but we don't see that.
    • TCGosu wrote:

      If the Hex balancing team finds this deck to be a problem, they can easily just up the Uzzu charge power cost to 5 (or keep it at 4 but can't gain two of the same threshold on the same turn).
      When Uzzu was released I got the impression that her power was intended to help with splashing multiple colors, similar to crypt dust. I get the feeling that using it for single shard ramping wasn't the intention. Of course, I could be wrong, that just my gut feeling.
    • AceBladewing wrote:

      TCGosu wrote:

      If the Hex balancing team finds this deck to be a problem, they can easily just up the Uzzu charge power cost to 5 (or keep it at 4 but can't gain two of the same threshold on the same turn).
      When Uzzu was released I got the impression that her power was intended to help with splashing multiple colors, similar to crypt dust. I get the feeling that using it for single shard ramping wasn't the intention. Of course, I could be wrong, that just my gut feeling.
      Well yeah, I think most people would agree that was the original intention for Uzzu - since the magic threshold number is 5 right now for copycat/empress, if they wanted to stop the single shard ramping that would probably be the most simple direct way of fixing it.
    • AceBladewing wrote:

      KotoTheMage wrote:

      To be fair, 3 mono sapphire decks made it to top 8 in CCS and only 1 of each other archtype. Just an observation.
      But how many people played mono sapphire decks compared to those other archtypes in the whole thing? You can't look at top 8 representation alone.
      Just looking at the data, there were 12 mono sapphire decks (out of 116 total players), and overall it had a 61.3% match winrate (which is the highest).

      It's clearly one of the stronger decks since a quarter of them made the top 8, but whether it crosses the line of it being too good is of course up for debate.
    • I think it's pretty reasonable to believe that the devs were aware Uzzu existed when they designed all of the 5 threshold cards from this chapter. :P

      Original intent of the champion or not, it couldn't possibly have escaped their notice that Uzzu would let you theoretically get to 5 threshold on turn 4. Considering Mightsinger was released into an environment where it was exceedingly easy to get to 5 threshold on turn 3, I hardly think moving things back by a turn in the rotation could realistically be called a worse scenario. ;)
      --ossuary

      "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none."
      - Shakespeare, All's Well That Ends Well
    • Oss- that's why i brought up the Copycat deck in MTG. The developers later said "they didn't see it" in terms of what that card would/could be used to do to the state of the game at the time. It wasn't that big a leap to think that humans (developers) could have missed this interaction and not been able to fully assess it. They fixed Ada and therroz, which i think was a great call. They hit josphine which no one used, which is a confusing call, but action was taken, which means someone is paying attention.

      I hope.
    • Yeah, that Cressida, it was a clear oversight that you could use her for ramp. Champions aren't supposed to ramp. :rolleyes:

      And gravitygroove, your problem is still that you're focusing on one tiny aspect of comparison between the two games (copycat) and trying to imply that this game has the same problem because of it. It's a totally different scenario, as that other game was a 2 card infinite combo. This isn't even a combo in Hex, it's just a nice little (mono shard only) synergy you can take advantage of but that can be very easily interacted with. It doesn't matter how many other uninformed people agree with you, it's still not the same scenario, and it's still not as powerful as you're acting.
      --ossuary

      "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none."
      - Shakespeare, All's Well That Ends Well
    • I'm far from an expert... but I see no evidence or data that suggests that Copycat is anywhere near as oppressive as Rune Ear Hierophant was back when it at its peak.... and Rune Ear didn't get a ban. I don't think there's any likelihood of copycat getting one, just off that alone.

      Hex is EXTREMELY stingy with competitive restrictions. Whether that's good or not is a matter of opinion, and time will be the real judge... but that is the reality. Unless copycat starts becoming so powerful that it is choking non-sapphire out of the format entirely... I wouldn't expect anything to change.
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    • Transience wrote:

      Gregangel wrote:

      yes the only issue is Uzzu charge power.
      the champions should not be used for ramp but only for shard fixing.
      This is clearly a flaw designers did not see coming.
      Why?
      Becouse uzzu gives opportunity to get empress effect or play copycat 1 turn earlier, that changes a lot.

      Uzzu was designed probably to give opportunity to play tri or more shards deck. They didnt thought that this could be used to somehow speed up some effect/card.
    • DraXor wrote:

      Transience wrote:

      Gregangel wrote:

      yes the only issue is Uzzu charge power.
      the champions should not be used for ramp but only for shard fixing.
      This is clearly a flaw designers did not see coming.
      Why?
      Becouse uzzu gives opportunity to get empress effect or play copycat 1 turn earlier, that changes a lot.
      Uzzu was designed probably to give opportunity to play tri or more shards deck. They didnt thought that this could be used to somehow speed up some effect/card.
      Regardless of whatever the initial design reasons were I'm pretty sure the designers knew what they were making.

      There is no difference in having Uzzu make your first ruby shard to cast Zakkaz or having him make the fifth Sapphire shard to cast Copycat. It's not ramp, it's making thresholds.

      If there is a problem, then it lies within Copycat being too cheap in terms of resources. Not in Uzzu being able to make thresholds. I don't think there is a problem yet with Copycat though.
      "Ignorant beliefs are stains upon the mind."
    • Transience wrote:

      DraXor wrote:

      Transience wrote:

      Gregangel wrote:

      yes the only issue is Uzzu charge power.
      the champions should not be used for ramp but only for shard fixing.
      This is clearly a flaw designers did not see coming.
      Why?
      Becouse uzzu gives opportunity to get empress effect or play copycat 1 turn earlier, that changes a lot.Uzzu was designed probably to give opportunity to play tri or more shards deck. They didnt thought that this could be used to somehow speed up some effect/card.
      Regardless of whatever the initial design reasons were I'm pretty sure the designers knew what they were making.
      There is no difference in having Uzzu make your first ruby shard to cast Zakkaz or having him make the fifth Sapphire shard to cast Copycat. It's not ramp, it's making thresholds.

      If there is a problem, then it lies within Copycat being too cheap in terms of resources. Not in Uzzu being able to make thresholds. I don't think there is a problem yet with Copycat though.
      im not saying that uzzu is problemtic, just wanted to explain.

      In normal enviroment you have to play 5 shards to play copycat, its turn 5, but with uzzu you can play it turn 4, so its technicly 'ramp'
    • Honestly, if Copycat was as oppressive as some people say, it'd be as expensive as Hierophant or Bride.

      I wish it would actually go up in price. I'm sitting on a playset of both versions I bought at base level hoping to turn a profit here!
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    • Darkwonders wrote:

      Honestly, if Copycat was as oppressive as some people say, it'd be as expensive as Hierophant or Bride.

      I wish it would actually go up in price. I'm sitting on a playset of both versions I bought at base level hoping to turn a profit here!
      I think there is alot of market manipulation with people corning the market on certain cards. Basically, they didn't corner copycat or empress prior to the deck being good. Probably nothing you can do unless the player base gets alot bigger. I guarantee bride will drop heavily once set 7 hits.
    • It isn't the deck. It is the meta you don't enjoy. I think dreadlings in theory is a great idea, then set 6 pushed the envelope on it to much for my taste. I am happy once rotation comes in limited, and hopefully a few more quick answers to the dread scourge that also gets a boost from scrounge will help alleviate my cringing to that scourge I am facing constantly.
    • Darkwonders wrote:

      Honestly, if Copycat was as oppressive as some people say, it'd be as expensive as Hierophant or Bride.

      I wish it would actually go up in price. I'm sitting on a playset of both versions I bought at base level hoping to turn a profit here!

      Not arguing in either way of whether the card is oppressive or not. But you can't compare the price with these two cards.

      There are the three points that Scars is still being drafted, thus new supply enters the market, and Bride being a legendary as well as hiero and bride being in several archetypes opposed to one single deck.

      However, the major difference is that copycat has an AA that can be gotten from chests. And the drop rate seems to be very high with the possibility of dropping from every rarity of chest. Just due to this factor it is not comparable as the supply of that card is absurdly high compared to other rares like commander prompt.